Touch of Death Compromise

[gurgar78]

That's just it, it was originally a500pt attack, decent but nothing too excitn. (Except at lvl 9 when you got it)
The Devs then changed it so it was supposed to be able to proc up to 2-3 times. I'm pretty sure the Devs knew the basic math involved. This (obviously) was bugged and went up to 5 times instead.
But it's a change the devs out in, it's not like they sat there and said 3x 500 = 500 pts of damage.
And the change can not be to reduce damage, as it now can do more damage. (1875ish for 3 strikes) albeit with a high DC needed.
I strongly suspect the change was to tie TOD (very useful obviously) with the Dark Monk moves and curses (what's the opposite of useful again?) But I have no idea why the save was added, unless it was there to compensate for the fact that we can now do more than 1500 pts. Still it seems one or the other would have been a better idea to start.
In any event I'd like to see a re examination of the dark monk line, (although I honestly doubt they have time to do this) in order to produce something a little more useful as an ability line. Hmm perhaps time for anoher thread...

You're making an assumption. You're assuming the devs looked at it and said "It's hitting up to three times now. That's okay. Dark monks need the buff. We'll leave it in."

What's more likely is that the dev's looked at it and said "It's hitting up to three times now. That's more damage than we wanted it to do. It's not a huge deal. We can fix x, y, and z before we worry about it"

While your assertion that it can potentially do up to 1875 damage instead of the aforementioned 1500 is indeed correct, the AVERAGE damage that you will receive from each button push has been reduced. If it was not a reduction in damage, you would not see people complaining.

[Khurse]

No in the U5 Dev poston the atacks change, it was specifiically stated that TOD would strike up to 2x ineart/fire/water stance and ahve a chance at a third proc in Wind. I believe even the approximate percentages were given.
I'll try and find the qote when I get home (on phone right now, obviously not poessing the manual dexterity to type on this thing )

[gurgar78]

No in the U5 Dev poston the atacks change, it was specifiically stated that TOD would strike up to 2x ineart/fire/water stance and ahve a chance at a third proc in Wind. I believe even the approximate percentages were given.
I'll try and find the qote when I get home (on phone right now, obviously not poessing the manual dexterity to type on this thing )

I would appreciate that. I'd be interested to read dev posts on the initial U5 change.

[Mobeius]

I would appreciate that. I'd be interested to read dev posts on the initial U5 change.

NO He is right the dev did post that. Something like double proc 60% and triple proc 8% but the proc rates are much higher than they anticipated and even more so with a monk in windstance.

Disclaimer: Dont cut my throat if the numbers are not dead on, I was merely guessing the proximity of the numbers.

[gurgar78]

NO He is right the dev did post that. Something like double proc 60% and triple proc 8% but the proc rates are much higher than they anticipated and even more so with a monk in windstance.

Disclaimer: Dont cut my throat if the numbers are not dead on, I was merely guessing the proximity of the numbers.

I wasn't doubting him. I just would like to read the posts, that's all.

[Khurse]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...89#post3081289

If you're attacking unarmed and have the TWF chain, you should see two Touches of Death 80% of the time (once from your right hand, once from your left). If you're in Wind Stance IV (or have some other form of doublestrike boosts), you should see another one 10% of the time, for a maximum of three.

Again, given the devs ability to do basic math, I'd have to assume they knew this meant 1000-1500 pts of damage.

Given that tehy knew how much damage it was (although obviously the 4 and 5 strikes were unforseen) this isn't likely to be a change because the Dark Monks did too much damage.

You never really notice how much the devs post until you have to go looking for a specific one

[Goldenadult79]

If you acquired a double strike effect from somewhere, then yes, Touch of Death could double strike (and trigger an off hand attack) for a total of three attacks.

thats the post about triple tod's from a dev.

Edit: guess I found a completely different one. meaning twice they said it was going to happen.

[Doctahg]

Dark Monks ARE NOT EVIL TOONS! Post after posts make it out like Light Monks are peace loving God fearing nice guys..but Dark ones are Evil, spawn from Hell..Negative creatures that can oinly damage good...bad guys... It's all so silly. Maybe we need a plain Monk who can be both dark AND light!!! What a compromise!

[gurgar78]

Dark Monks ARE NOT EVIL TOONS! Post after posts make it out like Light Monks are peace loving God fearing nice guys..but Dark ones are Evil, spawn from Hell..Negative creatures that can oinly damage good...bad guys... It's all so silly. Maybe we need a plain Monk who can be both dark AND light!!! What a compromise!

You mean like a Henshin Mystic? =P

I don't think too many people are saying Dark monks are evil. After all, Turbine has disallowed evil characters completely. Negative energy damage is not necessarily indicative of evil. It is, however, the polar opposite of positive energy damage, which Light monks use.

[gurgar78]

thats the post about triple tod's from a dev.

Edit: guess I found a completely different one. meaning twice they said it was going to happen.

Appreciate both of you taking the time to dig for it. I would have done so myself, but I was at work and was already spending probably more time than I should on these discussions. =P

The only thing I can point to, which is admittedly a bit nit-picky, is that in neither of those quotes do they ever say it was intended or that it would stay that way. They were simply describing what players would see with Touch of Death as it relates to the changes made to the combat system.

[Goldenadult79]

If you're attacking unarmed and have the TWF chain, you should see two Touches of Death 80% of the time (once from your right hand, once from your left). If you're in Wind Stance IV (or have some other form of doublestrike boosts), you should see another one 10% of the time, for a maximum of three.

Please explain how on earth you could possibly say that they are not admitting thats the way its supposed to be. Follow the links as well. you may have noticed that my quote from eladrin was in a thread started before the TWF changes went live. Of course its supposed to happen up to three times. Its pretty clear to anyone with a high school reading level what those comments mean.

If someone says, "xxx should xxxx" everything following the word, "should" is exactly what is supposed to happen.

[Modinator0]

I just had a thought that really is large part of the problem. Currently monks get special attacks that can outright kill or stun living mobs WITHOUT requiring a path to get them. Going light path and/or shintao increases the pool of mobs that the monk is useful against. Dark/ninja however, do nothing to increase the mob pool.
So, my newest suggestion would be to add a disrupting strike and a turning strike or something, base monk abilities not tied to a path that act as a quivering palm and stunning fist, but only work against undead. It would make sense for all monks to have at least some hatred for undead with training against them, no? Light would still be better for undead, and dark would still be better for fleshy living targets, but both would also have some training against both types of mob.

In a world where almost all monk gear comes from undead instances, it just doesn't seem right to take away the only decent ability dark monks have against those undead. Doing so pretty much guarantees that monks will need to level up as light path...

[gurgar78]

are you intentionally failing to learn how to read?



Please explain how on earth you could possibly say that they are not admitting thats the way its supposed to be. Follow the links as well. you may have noticed that my quote from eladrin was in a thread started before the TWF changes went live. Of course its supposed to happen up to three times. Its pretty clear to anyone with a high school reading level what those comments mean.

If someone says, "xxx should xxxx" everything following the word, "should" is exactly what is supposed to happen.

Okay, Mr. Grumpy Pants... let me see if I can explain how I'm looking at it.

I went through and read the thread your quote was taken from. People were discussing the changes to the combat engine. Someone asked how ToD would work with the change. Eladrin explained how ToD would work with the change. The response directly answers the way things would work after the change. It doesn't say whether they intended for it to be that way or whether it would stay that way. It shows awareness, but makes no determination on intent.

One could argue that if they were aware of how the change would affect ToD and opted not address it right away that they intended for it to work this way. This is not necessarily true though. They may have decided it wasn't a big enough issue to fix at the time and resolved to change it later.

Can you retract your statement about my ability to read now? Work just called and they're telling me I'm going to be fired for being illiterate. =(

[learst]

Can you retract your statement about my ability to read now? Work just called and they're telling me I'm going to be fired for being illiterate. =(

"Sorry we have to let you go, but we believe that your inability to comprehend a recent game forum post to be a huge liability in your area of work which you have somehow perform well for the past 10 years ."

/end pointless post

[Modinator0]

"Sorry we have to let you go, but we believe that your inability to comprehend a recent game forum post to be a huge liability in your area of work which you have somehow perform well for the past 10 years ."

/end pointless post

Are you a writer for Dilbert?

[DarkThoughts]

If you're attacking unarmed and have the TWF chain, you should see two Touches of Death 80% of the time (once from your right hand, once from your left). If you're in Wind Stance IV (or have some other form of doublestrike boosts), you should see another one 10% of the time, for a maximum of three.

So why can't this be the answer for the ToD change if that's how it was originally intended to work? I would love to see ToD work that way.

[Mobeius]

So why can't this be the answer for the ToD change if that's how it was originally intended to work? I would love to see ToD work that way.

If I had to guess it involves mechanics of the game that will take a long time to recode and easier to fix the solution this way. Double, Triple Proc mechanics more specifically. IDK, Just seems like X2 and X3 procs go off more than 80/10% to me.

[Goldenadult79]

If I had to guess it involves mechanics of the game that will take a long time to recode and easier to fix the solution this way. Double, Triple Proc mechanics more specifically. IDK, Just seems like X2 and X3 procs go off more than 80/10% to me.

You dont ahve a dark monk. So please stop telling us how often x3 and x4 tods go off. roll one and actualy count or stop posting this garbage.

[Mobeius]

You dont ahve a dark monk. So please stop telling us how often x3 and x4 tods go off. roll one and actualy count or stop posting this garbage.

Gee angry are we?

No I dont have a dark monk, but I do have a light monk that has GM windstance and able to use my procs on that basis.



What? you think only dark monks were allowed double and triple procs?

BTW were do I talk about X4 procs in that post?

[DarkThoughts]

If I had to guess it involves mechanics of the game that will take a long time to recode and easier to fix the solution this way. Double, Triple Proc mechanics more specifically. IDK, Just seems like X2 and X3 procs go off more than 80/10% to me.

I can't vouch for anybody else but I don't see 80% double strikes on my Monk and he is in Grandmaster Wind Stance most of the time. I ran an Epic Chains of Flame recently and I only saw a handful of x2 procs the entire time, never getting a x3 or higher.

In fact,I only recall seeing a x4 proc once since I've been running him and it was a real, "Holy $#!+!! I just hit that guy for 2000 points of damage!" moment. I haven't seen it since and I've never seen a x5.