Which Monk MC route?

[Mallets]

Ok, my first attempt at a Monk. I'm not trying for an uber, best build. But I don't want a total gimped build. I'm just trying to be relatively decent.

So here's a few options I'm looking at.

#1
8 Monk / 12 Fighter

I think the Power Surge (+8 Str) from Kensai II will be very nice. Should have decent DPS. But not sure which Monk path to take with this one? Any tips if I go this route?


#2
13 Monk / 7 Rogue

I'd take the Ninja Spy path. I'd have 7d6+9 to sneak attack (that's a 33.5 average). Also get Rogue Haste Boost III (25%) Question here is... is it feasible to use the Ninja Spy enhancement Shadow Fade to keep my self regular hidden... thus popping out of the shadows for regular sneak attacks? Basically can you sneak up on folks with Shadow Fade?

#3
10 Monk / 10 Paladin or 9 Monk / 9 Paladin / 2 Fighter

I'm sure this seems stupid... maybe it is... but on paper, it doesn't seem bad. I get ToD. I get several LoHs and Smites, I can raise dead with LoHs, I get I get the Divine Might II (+4 Str Sacred bonuse) and Exalted Smite II enhancements, and I get HLW spell and Resist Energy spell... as well as the use of wands.

If I went the 9/9/2 route. I'd lose Divine Might II, Exalted Smite II, and Way of Animal III. But I'd gain 2 feats and a +1 Str enhancement. This path may actually be better... not sure how my feats would lay out. I may or may not need those 2 extra feats.




So which do I choose. Please, if you have any comments on any of these builds, chime in? I don't just need to know which one is best... but what makes each of these good or bad? I'm totally new to Monk. #2 seems like it'd be fun to play. #3 (either choice) seems great on paper. While #1 will have the most natural DPS, which makes it tempting.

My brain feels like someone hit it with Stunning Fist!!!

[Vazok1]

touch of death has recently been changed so there is a dc on it based on monk level and wisdom mod. so any monk character you are building without full monk levels i'd recomend light path, also it gives a nice amount of soloability if you wanted it.

as to the builds i'd say either the 12fighter/8monk (you could try and get a load of healing amp so your healing curse heals you for about 5 every hit, make yourself very healer friendly, novel concept but could be good, depends what your looking for im just throwing ideas out) cant take touch of death with this one btw, need 9 monk levels for it

or 13monk/7rogue, this would work as well as the fighter version i think in dps terms but a very different play style, with the fighter you could be up front beating on stuff and taking agro and taking a beating, with this you'd be more sneak attacking etc. plus you'd be capable of doing every trap in the game if you built it right.

(personally i've got a 12monk/8rogue for improved uncanny dodge but thats a personal choice i just find useful)

[FuzzyDuck81]

I've got a character whos pretty close to option 1 - at cap she'll be 7 monk, 12 fighter & 1 wizard. She's a dragonmarked elf (thats why i took the wizard level, so i could get extended displacement), with ninja spy & kensai in shortswords. She has fast attacks with the combination of wind stance & haste boost, has some self-healing through the meditaion, evasion & can self-buff with wizard wands as well as the Shield spell (mostly for magic missiles but a little extra ac is never bad). She's a lot of fun to play & surprisingly durable in close combat with decent dps.

[r3dl4nce]

If you want max dps (ToD with the highest DC) and max utility (stunning fist with the highest DC) you should go 20 monk.

[Soleran]

The first build I would go light monk and probably stunning blow not stunning fist, it looks similar it what's called the Godhand build I believe.

Build two I would go dark monk, even if they nerf tod to fort saves you'll still be able to do 250-750 in windstance on a number of targets and shadowfade which is pretty nice, it's your invisibility and concealment buff in this build you also get free short swords as your monk and improved crit when you use them.

The third build I dont know, I suppose it would depend on the synergy you're looking for with the class.

[Mallets]

Made an edit to OP. Add "Divine Might II" as a good Paladin plus. And the use of wands (which should be very useful).


Great info from everyone! Thx!!!

touch of death has recently been changed so there is a dc on it based on monk level and wisdom mod. so any monk character you are building without full monk levels i'd recomend light path, also it gives a nice amount of soloability if you wanted it.

(personally i've got a 12monk/8rogue for improved uncanny dodge but thats a personal choice i just find useful)

Great info to know, thx.

I like the 13 Monk for the Spell Resistance (which should be 23). Not sure if a high Spell Resistance is useless like AC is. But I know I haven't heard too many players saying so (but that doesn't mean it is also useful).

The first build I would go light monk and probably stunning blow not stunning fist, it looks similar it what's called the Godhand build I believe.

Good call on Stunning Blow over Stunning Fist. Thx!

Build two I would go dark monk, even if they nerf tod to fort saves you'll still be able to do 250-750 in windstance on a number of targets and shadowfade which is pretty nice, it's your invisibility and concealment buff in this build you also get free short swords as your monk and improved crit when you use them.

Cool. Quick question though. To get ToD, you have to take an Adept of "Element" as a lvl 6 enhancement. Let's say I went Adept of Wind. Can I also choose the lvl 6 enhancement Ninja Spy? Unclear if you can only choose 1 path? I know you can't go Ninja Spy (dark) and Shinto Monk (light)... but unsure how the Element paths play into it.

[Mortriek]

13 Monk / 7 Rogue

I'd take the Ninja Spy path. I'd have 7d6+9 to sneak attack (that's a 33.5 average). Question here is... is it feasible to use the Ninja Spy enhancement Shadow Fade to keep my self regular hidden... thus popping out of the shadows for regular sneak attacks? Basically can you sneak up on folks with Shadow Fade?

I'd say no. I use shadow fade very often and hits are not rolled as sneak attacks. I think Shadow Fade works as invisible spell. Mobs can't see you but they can listen to you, so your attacks are not catalogued as sneak attacks because mobs are aware of you.

Cool. Quick question though. To get ToD, you have to take an Adept of "Element" as a lvl 6 enhancement. Let's say I went Adept of Wind. Can I also choose the lvl 6 enhancement Ninja Spy? Unclear if you can only choose 1 path? I know you can't go Ninja Spy (dark) and Shinto Monk (light)... but unsure how the Element paths play into it.

First of all, Ninja Spy is a prestige class enhancement that it's independent of the stances you have.

Ninja Spy requirements:

Requires One of: All-Consuming Flame, Porous Soul, Static Charge, Winter's Touch
Requires All of: Monk Jump II, Monk Tumble II, Dodge, Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

You do not need to be an adept of an elemental stance to get Ninja Spy. You just need one elemental special hit and jump, tumble and so...

[dpadan17]

I have a 12 monk/8 fighter and absolutely love it. 544 hps, with ToD rings, and an ac of 54 unbuffed is very nice. Many extra feats and a ton of hit points. the ninja spy route with this is awesome.

Otherwise......20 straight monk is nice or the 8 rogue version is good too. All have good beni's.

[Mallets]

First of all, Ninja Spy is a prestige class enhancement that it's independent of the stances you have.

Ninja Spy requirements:

Requires One of: All-Consuming Flame, Porous Soul, Static Charge, Winter's Touch
Requires All of: Monk Jump II, Monk Tumble II, Dodge, Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

You do not need to be an adept of an elemental stance to get Ninja Spy. You just need one elemental special hit and jump, tumble and so...

Awesome! Thx!

I'd say no. I use shadow fade very often and hits are not rolled as sneak attacks. I think Shadow Fade works as invisible spell. Mobs can't see you but they can listen to you, so your attacks are not catalogued as sneak attacks because mobs are aware of you.

Not so awesome! Thx for the info! Shadow Fade making Sneak Attacks happen often had a lot to do with the build.

[Hurak]

My main is a halfling 12 monk/7 rogue/1 fighter Ninja spy with dragonmarks. Love it, a lot of fun. the 7 rogue levels allows me to open/detect nearly everything in game and provides decent additional damage. One problem with this build is the DC's for your skills and stuns will be limited to the low 30's making it difficult to fill the role of a reliable debuffer/stunner and your ToD will most likely be weaker as a result. But since I play this toon as a DPS anklebiter, it fits the role well.

[t0r012]

Originally Posted by Mortriek
I'd say no. I use shadow fade very often and hits are not rolled as sneak attacks. I think Shadow Fade works as invisible spell. Mobs can't see you but they can listen to you, so your attacks are not catalogued as sneak attacks because mobs are aware of you.

yes but if you sneak while in shadow form should resolve that issue.
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to the OP for the monk/pally split take a look at the solar phoenix build if you haven't already.


13/7 Monk/ rogue - just seems to build itself doesn't it? Tough to go wrong.


for the fighter/monk combo - not a huge fan but it could work, all the feats you could want to work in whirling steel strike for long swords and any other combat feat you could want, ever. Problem is with 8 monk your fists are doing more base damage than longswords already and faster. you do give up the 1 crit range (19-20 vs 20)

for path your options are limited , since you'd be looking at longswords stunning fist is out , only 8 monk means you can't even get TofD which even if you took 9 monk with swords you can't use TofD. So to me its a no brainer to go light so you can blur yourself with the wind/light/wind (dance of the clouds) and the important one fire/light/fire (walk of the sun) for the +2 to hit, saves and skill checks.
throw in some tortoise for a few extra hp.

[Mallets]

yes but if you sneak while in shadow form should resolve that issue.

That's what I'm thinking. And as long as I make sure I max out "Move Silently" and wear an item with a max bonus... I should do just fine.

for the fighter/monk combo - not a huge fan but it could work, all the feats you could want to work in whirling steel strike for long swords and any other combat feat you could want, ever. Problem is with 8 monk your fists are doing more base damage than longswords already and faster. you do give up the 1 crit range (19-20 vs 20)

Yeah, I was thinking fist over longswords. If I went this route (which I now doubt it), I was looking to go Kensai with Unarmed attack. With Weapon Specialization and the enhancements that you get from Kensai... plus the +8 Str from Power Surge... I think I'd have pretty decent DPS.