Halforcs: Apologies.

[Boromirs]

I was wrong. I admit it. Apologies to the devs for doubting them. No, this is not some weird attempt to win my "halforcs are OPed" arguement, it's not. They are balanced and here's why.

You see for the longest time I was wondering why the devs/turbine will screw themselves by bringing in what I call "the escalating power trip of doom" scenario. Wherein since this is a F2P/Micro transaction game which requires that customers continue to buy more product from the DDO store which they will only do if that product will provide them with greater power or more fun(which is indirectly tied to greater power) AND in which turbine must continue to outdo themselves in power with each race/adventure pack/named item/etc. that they release because of this fact... ultimately making the game unplayable in the end.

So I searched and searched finding that clever kernel of balance that Halforcs will ultimately adhere to. And I found it. Are you ready for it?

Halforcs cannot twitch.

Oh my my, I don't give the Devs enough credit. I bow to you,sirs. I meant that genuinely.

What the heck are you talking about Boromirs?

[Turbine HQ in MA, USA]

Dev 1: "Alright guys, we got an edict from Turbine Central Command."

Dev 2: "The giant bipedal bunny?"

Dev 1: "Yes from the mouth of the emperor himself. We are asked to make the upcoming halforc melee race REALLY SELL."

Dev 2: "But how? The only way to do that is to jack up their power over everything else. But that would destroy the delicate balance between the other races. I mean whats the point in playing a dwarf any more?"

Dev 1: "You're right...and wrong. We are going to give halforcs an inordinate amount of melee power. BUT we're going to quarantine that power into a specific class and give a hidden advantage that only power gamers will do and know of both satisfying our bosses, maintain delicate game balance, and give power gamers concerned with +/- 10% dps a release."

Dev 2: "Dear god man ! GET A HOLD OF YOURSELF! THATS MADNESS ! IT WOULD SHATTER THE SPACE TIME CONTIUUM AND DESTROY OUR ONLY FLUX CAPACITOR ?! :::jumps out window and dies:::

Dev 3: Ok so how do we do the impossible?

Dev 1: It's simple. Remember we took away the damage from the THF line to the twitchers?

Dev 3: Yes although twitching is still comparable to just standing there and getting the bonuses from the THF line perhaps it's even more damage?

Dev 1: Yes, perhaps. But what if we make halforcs, a brand new race, untwitchable?

Dev 3: Huh, so all the builds who want to do comparable twitch damage must buy the THF lines. And they must stand still to get the benefits from it. Significant disadvantages.

Dev 1: Indeed but we offset that disadvantage by adding an INCREDIBLE line of damage enhancements for the race. Plus, we'll throw in an EXCLUSIVE halforc animation while we're at it to BOTH get rid of the twitching effect AND disguise it as a exclusive halforc animation only. We'll make it extremely badass looking with a shoulder smash and jab with the butt of their weapon.

Dev 3: So the blatantly apparent side of it, the enhancement lines and animation will sell the race but getting rid of the twitch will bring some sanity of balance to it!

Dev 1: Exactly! And it's not like the chosen halforc class, Barbarians, would be losing anything? They couldn't get any additional damage by twitching anyway after U5. So now, they'll get even more damage as Barbarians if they play halforc.

Dev 3: They'll kinda edge out dwarves and WF.

Dev 1: BUT at least it's localized in only 1 class, dwarves and WF can still make excellent fighters, clerics, and arcanes.

Dev 3: :::looks astonished::: My god, you are a genius!

Dev 1: I know.... I know. I just wish...

Dev 3: Wish what?

Dev 1: ::sighs:: that Claire will say yes when I ask her out tomorrow.

Dev 3: :: puts a hand on his shoulder:: We were meant for greater things in this world then mere carnal pleasure and/or possible opportunity to procreate. Lets get this done.

Dev 1: :: pulls back his tears:: You're right, I'm sorry I don't know what came over me.

Dev 3: It's ok it happens to the best of us.

[Cetus]

huh

[stazer]

like the dev speculative commentary...easy to immagine...I just wonder if the whole clair thing worked out...guess we will have to wait till next weeks episode.

im assuming the discovery that half orcs can not twitch is a result of play testing. If so..


that's a funny thing.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I thought the new animation only applied to Greataxes.

eSoS isn't a Greataxe.

[Boromirs]

I thought the new animation only applied to Greataxes.

eSoS isn't a Greataxe.

Correction: You are right, Greataxe you can't twitch at all. I was too busy to notice until I went to a portal to get some solid dps numbers...then when I tried to twitch ...

However, animations for greatsword and falchion are not the same as normal. It's slightly slower.

[khaldan]

Correction: You are right, Greataxe you can't twitch at all. I was too busy to notice until I went to a portal to get some solid dps numbers...then when I tried to twitch ...

However, animations for greatsword and falchion are not the same as normal. It's slightly slower.

After playing around with it for a bit, I think it is possible to twitch with a greatsword, but it's just stupid hard. If you move as the second greatsword attack goes, get the moving one, then have the overhand swing again, and move, it works.

I can't keep it up for more than 3 rotations, however. If someone could try to keep it up for a more consistent time, that would be nice.

[maddmatt70]

Twitching is not more dps for thf anymore you must have missed that memo OP.

[Khellendros13]

Twitching is not more dps for thf anymore you must have missed that memo OP.

It is when mobs are only held/stunned for a short time in epic quests. Though the DPS charts only measure raid boss DPS.

it looks awkward too, and at level 4 the end of the animation looks cut off before is starts again...I hope higher BAB is smoother.

[Boromirs]

Twitching is not more dps for thf anymore you must have missed that memo OP.

A person TWITCHING that has NO THF will equal the DPS of a person NOT TWITCHING but has the FULL THF line.

This is why there is balance. Because Horcs won't have this pretty valuable ability (or is extremely difficult to do for their animation that it essentially doesnt exist) that the non-master races can do.

So, this means I can make a dwarf barb save on 3 feats (HUGE advantage), and STILL do around 9~12% DPS below par to a fully THF specced/FULL Horc enhancement line Horc. A WF can do the same thing but their damage is closer to 7~9% DPS gap (again while saving those 3 precious feats ...especially for a barb).

So, for a barb 7~12% more DPS for a trade of better HP/Immunity/saves + 3 Extra Feats might be reasonable for SOME. (still not for many). BUT, for anything ELSE THEN A BARB, Horc would not be the greatest choice (those 3 feats become even more valuable and their stat distribution and advantages of other races begin to outshine them).

[FlyingTurtle]

I know what twitching is (interrupt your own attack sequence to repeatedly get the first few quicker animations), but there's been so many changes to twitching that as a newbie I am no longer able to separate stale information from currently valid.

Please explain this, as if to a moron.

Thanks.

[brlftz]

lol, as if to a moron. agree. with all the changes to feats and animations, i'm hopelessly behind on my understanding of what twitching now achieves, and how to do it.

[valorik]

I couldn't get vet status to work on lamaland so didn't try it out much, but a friend told me he was still able to twitch his half orc.

[Boromirs]

lol, as if to a moron. agree. with all the changes to feats and animations, i'm hopelessly behind on my understanding of what twitching now achieves, and how to do it.

Twitching is when you are using non in-game means to achieve a higher rate of attack and thus greater DPS. You do this when your character uses the very first animation sequence (which is faster then the later sequences) through continuously moving back and forth (some people like left to right others forward and back) rapidly (to the point where your character doesn't move at all but rather "twitches" in place). This movement coupled with you continuously holding down your left mouse button (your attack button) will trigger the first animation sequence continuously.

However, movement overall is useful in combat (to avoid enemy attack while hitting them), but for maximum DPS you would either twitch or get the full line of THF (which would cost you 3 feats out of the 7 you get as a barb ...considerable).

To the above poster,

You CAN twitch with halforc (YOU CANNOT twitch with greataxe as a halforc currently, thats impossible as the animation for some reason cuts out in the middle..perhaps to deter twitching). Even with greatsword or maul or whatever it's harder on a halforc, they DID CHANGE the animations, and it's much harder to do. I would post a youtube thing when I get back...and figure out how to use the camrecorder thing(if there is one even). If someone else can post HALFORC TWITCHING on youtube that would be great.

[brlftz]

thanks boromirs, sounds like it hasn't actually changed much then. i thought they had changed the animations to the point that twitching didn't get you a faster rate of attack, but i guess i misunderstood.

[Boromirs]

thanks boromirs, sounds like it hasn't actually changed much then. i thought they had changed the animations to the point that twitching didn't get you a faster rate of attack, but i guess i misunderstood.

Only for halforcs have they changed the animation. Which makes sense since they were starting from scratch with a whole new race.

However, don't get me wrong. Halforcs will STILL make the absolute best THF probably TWF Barbarians (because all Barbarians are are walking DPS) and probably make the the BEST THF fighters. Other classes not so much, by the shear fact that those other classes (namely clerics/fvs/paladins other melee oriented but feat restricted classes) will be out DPSing (or at least matching) a horc enhanced character due to them being able to twitch and the horc not being able to twitch.

[andbr22]

OR maybe it is just first step to make every character untwichable.
BTW does HOrc haves new TWF animation?

And sorry Twiching sounds like general bending (not breaking yet) rules. Useing flaw in mechanics to gain faster attack speed. (I never twiched, at least never done it for porpouse of gaining attack speed).
Twichers are munchkins!

[Cetus]

If I get some free time away from work, I'll shoot up fraps and try to make a video- this would be interesting to get soe figures for


Note that the bab will affect results, It may be useful to compare with an equivalent level WF for the sake of leaving the control the same level.

[maddmatt70]

thanks boromirs, sounds like it hasn't actually changed much then. i thought they had changed the animations to the point that twitching didn't get you a faster rate of attack, but i guess i misunderstood.

What twitching does now is negate your glancing blow damage. Hence on a character with the thf feats twitching does not provide any increase in damage.

[Vanshilar]

Actually it looks like it works the same as before. The only difference is that for the greataxe, it looks like it's possible that the first swing animation is quicker than the second. Twitch exploits the fact that the second swing animation (while standing still) is very fast, to get its increased swing speed. If the first swing animation is indeed the fastest, and the second one is slower, then the effectiveness of twitch is indeed reduced. The first swing animation leads into the second moving animation which leads into the third swing animation (and not back to the first swing animation), so indeed, you can't twitch using the first swing animation.

For non-greataxe weapons, the swing animations are the same as before, except that the first swing has been replaced by a nearly-vertical diagonal swing, rather than the previous horizontal baseball swing of other races. So twitching is the same.

I'll post a more detailed technical analysis of half-orc twitch later but for now, here's videos of both greatsword and greataxe, both non-twitch and twitch. These are for a BAB 4 barbarian because I'm too lazy to level a char up. As with my other attack speed videos, there's a hotbar on the upper right to have a timer, although I recorded it at 10 frames per second so it should be fairly easy to get a swings per minute count. I'd recommend looking at the nontwitch videos first so you get a feeling for which swing animation is which.

greataxe nontwitch
greataxe twitch
greatsword nontwitch
greatsword twitch

Edit: By the way, here's some warforged videos to compare with, also BAB 4 (testing was done on Lamannia):

greataxe nontwitch
greataxe twitch
greatsword nontwitch
greatsword twitch

[EustaceTrevelyan]

LOL'd, and +1. That was rather poignant, I too want to learn how it all works out with Claire