Cleric Feats- why so few?

[phalaeo]

I've heard it referenced that a Cleric is to a Wizard and a FvS is to a Sorc. There are indeed many similarities between each analogous class, except one thing which I've always wondered about....

If Clerics "are to" Wizards, why do they get bonus feats, and we are feat starved?

I know the easy answer is that this game is based off of PnP, but I've read countless threads about how things have to differ somewhat in DDO due to the fact that it's live action, not turn based. Is there some game balancing reason as to why Clerics can't have bonus feats like Wizards that I'm missing?

I've also wondered the same about damage enhancement lines and crit chances, but that's more greed than need.

[FlyingTurtle]

If Clerics had +5 feats like wizards, there would be no build tradeoffs. Everyone would be able to afford full battle cleric / offensive caster AND healing capabilities, and so all clerics would be clones.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Clerics get Heavy Armor prof, Shield prof, more Weapon profs, no Spell Failure, 3/4 BAB, good Fort saves, and Turn Undead over top of a Wizard.

Some of that may not have much relevance in current DDO, but it's the tradeoff. And the missing Domains.

[phalaeo]

If Clerics had +5 feats like wizards, there would be no build tradeoffs. Everyone would be able to afford full battle cleric / offensive caster AND healing capabilities, and so all clerics would be clones.

Oh- if more feats were implemented, I wouldn't assume 5. Hell, I'd be happy with just one bonus feat.

I'm of the opposite opinion as you. I don't feel like there are many ways to make a pure Cleric build stand out as unique without gimping it. You've got the "biggies"- Quicken, Maximize, Empower Healing, Toughness... after that, Empower, and possibly Extend or Heighten. I'd bet you most capped Clerics would have a tough time choosing which one of those to give up.

I'm not saying it SHOULD happen, but what would be so bad about giving us one or two Class Feats towards a Spell Focus to allow us to have more specialization?

[PopeJual]

In addition to the fighting feats that Clerics get and Wizards don't get, Clerics get Domains. That more than compensates for the extra feats that Wizards get in Pen and Paper.

If Turbine brings Domains into the game, then I think I'd park my FvS for a while and enjoy some Cleric love. I'm thinking Earth and Travel domains or Trickery and Travel domains.

Elemental swarm.... Yum.

[phalaeo]

In addition to the fighting feats that Clerics get and Wizards don't get, Clerics get Domains. That more than compensates for the extra feats that Wizards get in Pen and Paper.

If Turbine brings Domains into the game, then I think I'd park my FvS for a while and enjoy some Cleric love. I'm thinking Earth and Travel domains or Trickery and Travel domains.

Elemental swarm.... Yum.

I've read up some on Domains, but have no idea how they would practically fit into DDO gameplay. I like the concept, though and from the little I know, I think it would be a welcome addition that would add to diversity within the class.

[flynnjsw]

I've read up some on Domains, but have no idea how they would practically fit into DDO gameplay. I like the concept, though and from the little I know, I think it would be a welcome addition that would add to diversity within the class.

I think the biggest issue you would run into if Turbine added Domains is that unless they added icons for each Domain, you would have no idea what type of Cleric you were getting in your party. However, it would end once and for all the "Clerics are Healers" debate once and for all.

[Visty]

clerics dont get bonus feats cause they get 2 domains...oh wait

[k1ngp1n]

Lore-wise, it has to do with the nature of how cleric's acquire their spells and how they cast them. Wizards study, endlessly. Their spells are practiced rigorously. Therefore, they are adept at twisting them into different forms - aka metamagics. Sorcerors project their spells through the force of their own personality and desire, and therefore are not as adept at altering the spells.

Clerics are strictly faith based. Their spells come from the belief that their spell will work, not practice. The cleric's spellcasting flexibility is the ability to cast any of their spells as a healing spell. In DDO cleric's get them for free - this is their spellcasting bonus. Adding free metamagics would give clerics two spellcasting bonuses.

Wizards are the masters of arcane flexibility. Clerics are the masters of preparation through faith. Those who make the 'clerics are divine wizards' are simplifying the relationship to whether or not they can switch spells at will.

[Cpw]

Because clerics can cast in armor, have a better BAP, hit point die, and other differences . They really are nothing like a wizard.

[phalaeo]

Clerics are strictly faith based. Their spells come from the belief that their spell will work

Well, what happens if my Cleric faithfully believes she'll get one bonus Meta and a Spell Focus?

Wizards study, endlessly. Their spells are practiced rigorously.

My Cleric practices rigorously! She Shrouds every three days and doesn't go a week without a ToD!

No, seriously- as much as I'd like to see one or two more feats, this is the best explanation I've heard so far. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

Having no PnP background, I am constantly amazed at the complexity of the lore. I may not know all of it, but I respect it's there. Thanks again for sharing this with me and not neg repping me for asking a naive question.

[Alabore]

Wizards study, endlessly. Their spells are practiced rigorously.

We could argue, clerics pray fervently.



...

Also, clerics get tenet enhancements.
Not quite full blown domains, but they give extra powers nonetheless.

[Legohaiden]

Lore-wise, it has to do with the nature of how cleric's acquire their spells and how they cast them. Wizards study, endlessly. Their spells are practiced rigorously. Therefore, they are adept at twisting them into different forms - aka metamagics. Sorcerors project their spells through the force of their own personality and desire, and therefore are not as adept at altering the spells.

Clerics are strictly faith based. Their spells come from the belief that their spell will work, not practice. The cleric's spellcasting flexibility is the ability to cast any of their spells as a healing spell. In DDO cleric's get them for free - this is their spellcasting bonus. Adding free metamagics would give clerics two spellcasting bonuses.

Wizards are the masters of arcane flexibility. Clerics are the masters of preparation through faith. Those who make the 'clerics are divine wizards' are simplifying the relationship to whether or not they can switch spells at will.

Well Said!
+1

[Alabore]

If Clerics "are to" Wizards, why do they get bonus feats, and we are feat starved?

Must be leftovers from older D&D editions.
Clerics are front-loaded with proficiency feats; that makes them more durable in low level game.
Of course the way DDO works, they could easily strip clerics to robes, only give them dagger and quarterstaff, and most vets wouldn't even blink.
All considered, I am willing to say some players would happily trade the weapon/armour proficiency for more metamagic feats; either they splash fighter and they get them anyway, or they stay pure casters, and wouldn't touch a sword for most of their life.