Gust of Wind, Cyclonic Blast vs Wall of Fire

[Hafeal]

It will be interesting. I definitely see it as a useful spell for us and them.

• Gust of Wind (Wizard/Sorcerer Level 2)
  
  • Spell Point Cost: 15
  • Target: Foe, Directional, Breakable
  • Duration: 10 seconds
  • Spell Resistance: No
  • This spell creates a severe blast of air that originates from you and passes through all enemies in its path. Small or smaller enemies must make a Strength/Dexterity check or be knocked prone, Medium or smaller enemies are slowed by the winds, and Large or larger enemies are unaffected. The spell also clears away all lingering effects in its path, such as clouds and walls of fire.

(Wizard/Sorcerer Level 5)

• Cyclonic Blast
• Spell Point Cost: 30
• Target: Foe, Directional, Breakable
• Duration: 6 seconds
• Spell Resistance: No
• You send a twisting torrent of wind toward your enemies that deals 1 to 6 damage per caster level (up to a max of 90 damage at caster level 15) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. If the target fails its Reflex save, it must make a Strength/Dexterity check or be knocked prone. The spell also clears away all lingering effects in its path, such as clouds and walls of fire. D&D Dice: Deals 1d6 damage per caster level (max 15d6)."

[Therigar]

No offense, but this is a real one dimensional view on the spell. You're looking solely at the aspect that it puts out WoF. While that's true, I really don't think that's the point of the spell.

What does it do? It deals pure damage (non-typed damage, from the looks of it) while pushing over enemies. Knocking enemies prone has always been an effective method of CC if you can get it to work on a melee (more than likely it means the monsters die), so I see no reason why this shouldn't fall into the same category. Add in the fact that this spell can more than likely damage golems, and you have a pretty solid beneficial spell.

If you think it's garbage, don't take it, just like you apparently think that Acid and Force damage spells are useless. Personally, however, I think it's a spell that can add a bit more strategy than you think; just because it can't one hit a monster or insta-death something hardly makes it "garbage".

Plus, when it comes to druids, they are coming sooner than you think. There's been enough dev chatter and hints on that, where there was none before. Believe what you will, though, you seem to have already made up your mind on it anyway.

Let's see,

For golems I just disintegrate them. They come in so many hordes that killing them 1 at a time this way makes it challenging. Ok, no they don't. At lower levels I just melee them with a construct bane or smiter. Can't think of a real reason to change this or why melees would need me to knock them over.

I seldom use acid but I often use force. My point is that most builds do not spec for this and the damage spells do not seem as powerful. Even cold doesn't seem as powerful as fire. Electric gets some play because of Shroud, etc. where bosses are immune to other forms of elemental damage. My point here is that we have spells that get little play as it is (compared to fire/cold) so having more toys doesn't mean much unless they have something to cause us to use them. So far I haven't seen that.

You've been here longer than I have. How long from when chatter started on half-orcs until their release? I'd be glad to see druids released but still feel it is a poor reason to introduce spells -- if that is the motive to begin with.

IMO the devs sometimes spend too much time giving us stuff that we don't ask for and don't yet need and too little time on dealing with real existing issues or developing better content. I really am not impressed with the continual reusing of existing areas as the launch point or setting for other quests. IMO there is better stuff the devs could be working on. These spells are not among those things.

Lastly, the thread is Gust vs Wall so making those comparisons and commenting on relative usefulness seems appropriate. Relating the spells to others that get only situational use and that are very rarely the basis for builds also seems appropriate criticism of these new spells.

[William_the_Bat]

I think the real benefit of casting gust of wind as a player is as "kobold komand", i.e. knocking small monsters over. I wonder if it works on mephits.... But even if it does not, it would sure be nice to remove sleet storms, etc.

Of course, cyclonic blast is gong to rock.. especially if you take the evoker archmage option and spam it for cheap. Added bonus, you can remove enemy persistent AOE with gust for 3 SP.

I think the AI won't be smart enough to cast it at halflings and not half-orcs, let alone smart enough to put out a firewall that they don't know enough to avoid. Expect it to be a non-issue for enemy casters.

[Carpone]

If gust of wind gets rid of the fogs/clouds then I will slot it, and I will try to find a clicky of it for my non-spellcasters as well.

I hate *concealed* and I hate falling off cliffs because I can't see, even tho my character has blindness immunity and true seeing. Grr.

Break Enchantment is your friend.

[Maegin]

yeah gust of wind is a staple spell in DnD, in that it gets rid of fogs. fogs were the stable cc spells atleast in pnp, and just like how grease rocked and knocking things down and web held things still, this was one of evocations good spells in that it was ref save or get stuck for a bit. (usually emulated via shadow evocation cause what sane minded caster didnt ban evocation :P)

[William_the_Bat]

Break Enchantment is your friend.

There may be other ways to get the same thing done.. but why cast a high level break enchantment that requires caster level checks to disperse these effects when you can cast a level 2 gust (better, the archmage 3 SP at-will, or even the half-elf dragonmark) and *poof* gone.

No, it's not useless.

Cyclonic blast may duplicate several other spell effects... but really, wizards don't get commetfall. For damage, ball lightning is better because of the energy enhancements working... but ball lightning won't work on all targets, and it won't knock things down.

So it's not useless either.

And I'll reiterate, the chances of an AI monster that doesn't realize the wall of fire is there to avoid it casting the right spell to get rid of it is very low. It might happen by accident by a critter that likes to spam it, but it's doubtful it'll happen on purpose. I also don't expect an AI caster to know it can be used to knock over a halfling.

[MrkGrismer]

Break Enchantment is your friend.

Haven't seen that on a clickie yet, of course haven't seen gust of wind either but I'm hoping Also, doesn't break enchantment remove benefiical stuff also (Resist Energy, for instance)?

My main is a Paladin and doesn't get either (as far as I know).

[William_the_Bat]

My main is a Paladin and doesn't get either (as far as I know).

Actually, Paladins get break enchantment as a level 4 spell. It works awesome, though I often forget that I have it.

[donfilibuster]

Hordes of dumb, mindless or panicked monsters aren't out of place in d&d, there's fodder in PnP too.
The fault is still at the AI for WoF but on PnP if there's cheap resurrection monsters/npc would benefit from it as well and not fear death.
Just think of all the spoiled heroes carelessy running around the harbor, and you'd think these aren't mindless.

[MrkGrismer]

Actually, Paladins get break enchantment as a level 4 spell. It works awesome, though I often forget that I have it.

Oops, yeah I forgot about that. But with only 2 4th level spell slots I'd rather have a gust of wind clicky for getting rid of fogs/clouds. Maybe when I get 19th level

... and there is also that breaks beneficial thing

[Rodasch]

Oops, yeah I forgot about that. But with only 2 4th level spell slots I'd rather have a gust of wind clicky for getting rid of fogs/clouds. Maybe when I get 19th level

... and there is also that breaks beneficial thing

Break enchantment only breaks beneficials on enemies, and breaks detrimentals on allies and self. It will not wipe your resist buffs or your haste, trust me I use it all the time to clear mummy rot and golem curses and such when soloing.

[Drfirewater79]

more useless spells cause it kills off the most powerful spell in the game .. its not hard to choose ... one time damage spell or damage over time spell....

Something alot of people dont understand about firewall ... its not the most popular spell because its a fire damage spell ..

its cause its the biggest dps DOT spell ..

if there was ANY other DOT spell that did even nearly the same dps ... then firewall wouldnt be the only spell people turn to.

[Backley]

Break enchantment only breaks beneficials on enemies, and breaks detrimentals on allies and self. It will not wipe your resist buffs or your haste, trust me I use it all the time to clear mummy rot and golem curses and such when soloing.

Perhaps he meant that Break Enchantment and Gust of Wind will wipe away your own firewalls/blade barriers?

[salmag]

I'm sorry if someone else already asked this, but how do these spells affect fire elementals?

1. Does it extinguish them?
2. if not, then what about damage? Does it automatically crit them?

[William_the_Bat]

As these spells are wind, not cold, they should effect them normally. The reason they put out wall of fire is because they put out any persistent AOE, including acid fog and coudkill. Admittedly, Wall of Fire is a fire, not a cloud, but whatever. It works for me. A fire elemental is a large creature, not a medium one, so gust won't slow it.

But the good news is that gust of wind works fine on mephits, knocking them out of the sky and dumping them on the ground.

[MrkGrismer]

Break enchantment only breaks beneficials on enemies, and breaks detrimentals on allies and self. It will not wipe your resist buffs or your haste, trust me I use it all the time to clear mummy rot and golem curses and such when soloing.

You know, I should have figured that, considering the lack of friendly fire in the game. But nope I took the description to mean it would remove friendly buffs. Well, live and learn...

I use Remove Curse to remove curses tho. Less sp cost anyways.

[Kurukaze]

Actually for my taste, Gust of Wind, is a bit under powered, course im used to its dnd version, where it was sustained, and if you where smaller than the caster, or the same size there was no approaching him. Not very short term slow for kobolds.

A hall with a gust of wind trap at the end, was a bear, particularly if there was something firing at you.

[Merlocke]

Haven't seen that on a clickie yet, of course haven't seen gust of wind either but I'm hoping.

Break Enchantment clicky

[shagath]

Break Enchantment clicky

One click might not be enough. Why not just scroll it like the rest of us casters?

[Entelech]

So...is there any rational way of getting scrolls of these spells to inscribe, or do I have to pay 1 billion plat in the AH for a situationally-useful level 2 spell?