Template builds ?!

[Crystalizer]

during a long time i enjoyed looking at template builds, many ideas were quite interesting
but now template builds are more about :
- reincarnate as a 34/36pts build
- use specific epic loots/ any gs / farmable item you can imagine
- got all buffs you can find in game, which never happens

so many templates are now quite ridiculous and useless, this is teasing players with a build they will most probably never egalize, at least cuz before you have spent enough time to realize the exact build many new epic loots will have appeared and totally changed the "new ownage build"

to new players, play the class you like the most, pick whatever race you prefer, and just play without stressing on what item to loot, and only use templates to figure what loots you can have when you capped your character, and pick some few ideas, especially about synergies when multiclassing and choosing feats.

[blitzschlag]

well, the templates usually reflect that what is top notch at time of writing. you know there were similar posts in the old codemasters forum about how hilarious it is to include +2 tomes, the chattering ring, +4 ac insight shroud weapons, etc. pp..

today the chattering ring (as hard to get useful item in the past) is the epic gear. the +2 tomes are +4 ones.

nothing has changed. build templates are usually not made from heavy gamers for newbies. they're made from heavy gamers for like minded players. to optimum possible should be reflected.

[Crystalizer]

...nothing has changed. build templates are usually not made from heavy gamers for newbies. they're made from heavy gamers for like minded players. to optimum possible should be reflected.

to me a template is mostly useful for newcomers, most old players dont need them at all
ok it doesnt change really since old times, just this is even more ridiculous now to me :O

[r3dl4nce]

to new players, play the class you like the most, pick whatever race you prefer, and just play without stressing on what item to loot,

Some just wanna play this way, others wanna min/max and get the most from the character. Don't give generic advice.

To new players. You can play this game in THOUSAND ways.
1. You can min/max your character, having the best build, the best loot, and so on. In that case, follow or ask a build from a veteran
2. You can play jut to experiment, without guides, with non maxed characters. Do it. Be ready that sometimes in party people will expect you to be one the min/maxer so if you are not you could not be invited in party. Start your own parties. Problem solved
3. You can play permadeath, a way of playing where death is the end of character, there are a lot of PD guilds with differente rules
4. You can roleplay your character

And so on .....

[Aranticus]

i have quite a number of template builds for new players on ddowiki

[Crystalizer]

Some just wanna play this way, others wanna min/max and get the most from the character. Don't give generic advice...

i understand your post, what i think is that if a newcomer tries to recreate a very high-end build he will fastly got depressed and may stop playing when he will realize the amount of time required to actually reach the max of his build. what i also want to point is that a character built in a classic way with standard gears and not ubber ones will be decent and fun to play, reaching the edge in ddo is now more a question about being a nolife or what. but i agree, i didnt develop that part of my initial post. mostly my idea was rather to signal to template posters that posting a standard build but counting every single epic lootage and xp farming you can put it on in your dreams is useless, and ridiculous when you know the game

[r3dl4nce]

what i think is that if a newcomer tries to recreate a very high-end build he will fastly got depressed and may stop playing when he will realize the amount of time required to actually reach the max of his build.

And what if a newcomer do a useless character and none wanna him in party, he always play as a soulstone in someone bag and so on? It's more entertaining? Or what if the newcomer understand that he would like to have a great build but i did not follow a good build so now the only thing left is reroll or pay TP for reincarnate?

what i also want to point is that a character built in a classic way with standard gears and not ubber ones will be decent and fun to play,

Fun for you. Not for a min/maxer. Not for a heavy gamer. Not for who spend lot of time in game...

reaching the edge in ddo is now more a question about being a nolife or what.

Bah. Still the old "nolife" or "gettalife" argument. It's old. And false.

but i agree, i didnt develop that part of my initial post. mostly my idea was rather to signal to template posters that posting a standard build but counting every single epic lootage and xp farming you can put it on in your dreams is useless, and ridiculous when you know the game

When you make a build, you aim for the top. If you reach the top or not, well, the build is still good.

[Crystalizer]

And what if a newcomer do a useless character and none wanna him in party, he always play as a soulstone in someone bag and so on? It's more entertaining? Or what if the newcomer understand that he would like to have a great build but i did not follow a good build so now the only thing left is reroll or pay TP for reincarnate?

Fun for you. Not for a min/maxer. Not for a heavy gamer. Not for who spend lot of time in game...

Bah. Still the old "nolife" or "gettalife" argument. It's old. And false.

When you make a build, you aim for the top. If you reach the top or not, well, the build is still good.

so i guess i am supposed to not be a min/maxer, neither a heavy gamer, and so i dont spend lot of time in game. tell me how many shroud runs to get min2 weaps/min2 item ? this is long, quite long. and i dont see any interest again in posting builds which are totally standard but just putting on top end gears and saying its a wonderful build. its a wonderful achievement about the amount of time you spent in game. not about imagination or creativity, which is the most interesting part of ddo.

[r3dl4nce]

so i guess i am supposed to not be a min/maxer, neither a heavy gamer, and so i dont spend lot of time in game.

I don't know, you are saying this. I'm simply targetting none, simply showing there are a lot of different kind of players.

tell me how many shroud runs to get min2 weaps/min2 item ? this is long, quite long.

you can 2 shroud a week (raid timer), 4 if you have 2 flagged characters. A shroud is average of 30 minutes. You can login, run shroud, 30 minutes, logout. But I know what you mean, ddo, in high level, is all about farming. Farming named items, farming large ingredients, farming renown and so on.... The more you play, the more your character is powerful.

not about imagination or creativity, which is the most interesting part of ddo.

The interesting part of DDO, for me, is thinking and adapting good build to my play-style and thinking about the best equip and make the character work as its best.

[Crystalizer]

...The interesting part of DDO, for me, is thinking and adapting good build to my play-style and thinking about the best equip and make the character work as its best.

exactly : shaping your "own personal jesus", which is where imagination and creativity is brilliant in ddo. this is why i am a bit sceptic on templates, someone applying straight a template will miss the best aspect of ddo. how many gimps didnt we create before feeling strong enough in game ? and i still havent finished to spend a part of my nights of my X-th hybrid roll, still trying to transform a gimp into the best character for me..

[r3dl4nce]

exactly : shaping your "own personal jesus", which is where imagination and creativity is brilliant in ddo. this is why i am a bit sceptic on templates, someone applying straight a template will miss the best aspect of ddo. how many gimps didnt we create before feeling strong enough in game ? and i still havent finished to spend a part of my nights of my X-th hybrid roll, still trying to transform a gimp into the best character for me..

But you can do this if you have a GOOD knowledge of the game. For a new player, IMHO, the good path is:
- start a character following a template
- discover and learn the game from 1 to 20 with a good character
- build a new character (or TR) doing your experiments but having a good knowledge of the game

[Crystalizer]

But you can do this if you have a GOOD knowledge of the game. For a new player, IMHO, the good path is:
- start a character following a template
- discover and learn the game from 1 to 20 with a good character
- build a new character (or TR) doing your experiments but having a good knowledge of the game

the reason why devs introduced predefined builds in ddo. long is the road anyway, and everyone will find his own path my post is not against template builds, but i start to get bored to constantly read the same builds, just now you need a legend character and selected epic loots on a very standard build about feats and skills and class selection, that we know since a very long time..

[r3dl4nce]

the reason why devs introduced predefined builds in ddo. long is the road anyway, and everyone will find his own path my post is not against template builds, but i start to get bored to constantly read the same builds, just now you need a legend character and selected epic loots on a very standard build about feats and skills and class selection, that we know since a very long time..

Blame Turbine for having 3/4 spells useless. Just look at update 7 and waves of exhaustion.
Blame Turbine for having 1/2 feats useless (alertness? athletic?hamstring? great cleave? whirliwind? combat casting? should i go on?)
Blame Turbine for nerfing every interesting and good players idea (update 7 is the death of monks, the death of barbarians except WF and half orcs, and so on)
Blame Turbine for giving mobs blanket immunities, millions of hp and so on, so the BEST option in ddo for boss fight is having high dps melee surrounding a mob for 1-5 minutes while healers heals.

Players try to do the best with the tools we have (battle wizards with epic sos, solar phoenix builds, these are not standard builds) but in the end what is all about is dps & heals.

[Aranticus]

the reason why devs introduced predefined builds in ddo. long is the road anyway, and everyone will find his own path my post is not against template builds, but i start to get bored to constantly read the same builds, just now you need a legend character and selected epic loots on a very standard build about feats and skills and class selection, that we know since a very long time..

OP u are arguing for the sake of arguing. There are resources in which non twink, non pimped builds friendly for new comers in the forums and ddowiki. How about spending your time to look at them instead of arguing?

[Crystalizer]

OP u are arguing for the sake of arguing. There are resources in which non twink, non pimped builds friendly for new comers in the forums and ddowiki. How about spending your time to look at them instead of arguing?

dont feel forced to post in this thread if you dont like it, read newcomer documentation if you are interested in

[richieelias27]

In my opinion, any build that "requires" a full set of epic gear and +4 tomes just to be effective (as in a usable character) is a worthless build.

Now mind you, many of the builds that are posted with their epic and spectacularly grind-fest gear and tomes are still viable without them, just not at their maximum potential. This, also in my opinion, is fine.