Virtuoso II: To Sing or Not to Sing

[Drakesblood]

When the PrE was announce I was excited that I will be useful again and not given strange looks.

Well Virtuoso II is out and there was a big "***!?" and few calls to the suicide line, but I endured and reluctantly test it out.

Well, over all it's improvement to Virtuoso I in the fact you have more options (by more "Options" I mean two more songs on your hotbar) then ever before. Sustaining Song makes healing a bit better for everyone, basic HP regeneration of 1d5+1 (2-6). Song of Capering is Otto's Resistible dance except save DC = Entrall DC and last 60 seconds. Here is some testing I have done with the new songs.

-:Without healing amplification:-
Sustaining Song:

• Song Intro Burst Effect: 23 - 27 (Formula: Bard Level +1d6+2) <--- Cure Light Wounds the spell
• Song Duration: 5:16 <--- (Lingering Song 4 + Capstone)
• Second(s) per Tick: 1 - 1.5 seconds
• HP's per Tick: 2-6 (Formula: 1d5 + 1)

-:With healing amplification 50%:-
Sustaining Song:

• Song Intro Burst Effect: 35 - 43
• HP's per Tick: 4-9

Please note nothing works to improve the healing other then healing amplification, so enhancements do NOT help. Also any undead or anything that takes damage from healing will take the Song Intro Burst Effect and the regeneration tick. Also not that Warforged get only the Song Intro Burst Effect and not the regeneration.

Song of Capering

• Song Duration: 1:40 <--- (Lingering Song 4 + Capstone)
• Bug?: Song ends prematurely if target has fascinate/enthrallment broken
• Song DC: Preform + 1d20 on hit and for every few hits
• Song Distance: 32-35 Units (3x Polar Ray Distance)
• No need for spell penetration check and can not be dispelled
• Works only on things that can be danced even if you have song of the undead/maker

Comparison to spells at level 20

                                 Not Extended // Extended
Otto's Resistible Dance Time:           1 Min // 2 Min
Otto's Sphere of Dance Time:            1 Min // 2 Min
Otto's Irresistible Dance Time:     12-30 Sec // 24-60 Sec
Song of Capering Time:                45 Sec? // 1:40 Min <--- 120% extended song (80% from lingering +20% Capstone +20% from Virtuoso II

Please Note: 10 + CHR[+14] + Bard Capstone[+2] + Spell Level

                                 Not Heighten // Heighten
Otto's Resistible Dance DC:                27 // 32
Otto's Sphere of Dance DC:                 30 // 32
Otto's Irresistible Dance Time DC:   N/A(32?) // N/A
Song of Capering Time DC:             62 - 81 // N/A <--- Preform is 61

More testing will be done, but as I see this it is good for level 16 and lower but anything higher and it's just waste of time. Dance testing took place in Shavarath and one warforge paladin was harmed but was full restored.

By the other threads it seems Warforge get no loving this time, but that's ok I do carry a few reconstructs and mana pots for you. =D

[Irinis]

But nobody stays Virtuoso after level 16 anyway, they just respec to Warchanter because the ONLY good Bard is a Warchanter!

(So why even bother developing the other PrEs... sigh.)

[Maegin]

But nobody stays Virtuoso after level 16 anyway, they just respec to Warchanter because the ONLY good Bard is a Warchanter!

(So why even bother developing the other PrEs... sigh.)

In a game where the've taken out any other option but dps, this is sad but true.

[Gadget2775]

Ranged combat also appears to break Song of Capering. Every time I shoot something I danced it pops a saved floaty and is freed from the song.

Also tested Enthrallment. It still won't play with Suggestion. Wooo hoo, my improved Fascinate still doesn't count as Fascinate.

[Gadget2775]

Hmmm, capering might be more broken than expected. In searing heights the Orcs and Kobolds regularly break free from the song. Not just with ranged attacks either. Used two finesse of Greater Construct banes and had an Orc makes it's save. How useless, my DC 60 song is regularly beaten by CR6 mobs.

[Valindria]

Wait, they stop dancing if they take damage?

Can that be WAI??

[Tumarek]

But nobody stays Virtuoso after level 16 anyway, they just respec to Warchanter because the ONLY good Bard is a Warchanter!

(So why even bother developing the other PrEs... sigh.)

Na spellsinger II makes WC the weaker pre imho. SP regeration is great and at cap one has a better DC then any other class. And you can spam Hold Monster and mass charms.

But yeah Virtuoso still need lots of love.

[Tuney]

I'm a Virt at level 20, other then Epic Desert. I was able to land my spells quite often even non hightened Otto's reistable dance. But Song of Capering THAT sounds bugged, if it breaks on a hit... That just makes it a single target Enthrall with out the debuff.

[Gadget2775]

Just completed some more testing (and a bug report). Song of capering breaks almost without fail after combat begins. Might take a couple of hits but it will break. Tested in both Searing Heights and The Vale. Test weapons included a variety of light repeaters, two different finesse of GCB's, and a Dream Spitter. In all cases if the mob didn't die in the first hit or two it saved and began attacking. Song is a complete waste of space as is. Really hope it's a bug.

[Monkey_Archer]

<non constructive rant>
This useless joke of a PrE is the worst fail since the original palemaster!
</non constructive rant>

Anyway, did some testing...

Song of capering has a chance to break free every time you attack the dancing mob... making this effectively a single target enthrallment (without the debuff). So forget comparing this to ottos irresistible dance, this is worse CC then ottos resistible dance (level 2 spell)
The only part that makes this situationally useful is the range and the fact that it doesnt break invisibility (but does make noise so you still need to be careful)

Enthrallment is still broken. (mobs continue break free after a couple hits even if they fail the save)

Sustaining song, the only good part of this pre is very weak in comparison with spell song vigor. At ~4 hp per tick over 5 minutes this will average 600 hp regen.... which sounds decent... but compare that to a spell singer who regens 300 sp in the same amount of time. 300 sp is enough to cast 4 quickened/maximized mass cures (also about 600 hp healed) in addition to giving +300 sp to all the nearby casters/clerics.


So overall, nothing about this PrE gives it a distinct avantage over an equivalent spellsinger. Irresistable dance > Song of capering in 90% of situations. Spell song vigor > Sustaining song in 100% of situations. Extra perform, diplo, songs, etc are weak compared to +2 umd and 200 sp.

Im really hoping this PrE gets a 2nd pass like palemaster did...

[amoraenk]

I'm really hoping capering song is a bug... Please fixe that... Same for the sustaining song regeneration and warforged..
Virtuoso need lots of love!

[TheDearLeader]

Agreed.

If there is an element of resist-ability to this, it is useless.

[Valindria]

Man I hope that is a bug. It seems like it should be a bug. I am glad someone reported it.

[Geonis]

The "single target" aspect of this song caused it to be fail to begin with, and more ****-poor coding on Turbine's part makes it even worse than they describe it.

Amazing to me, they realize that the other 2 Bard PrEs need help, and rather than put out feelers to the community, they come up with these half baked ideas.

The Capering song should be multi-target (1 mob/CL), save vs Perform check, Dance effect for 2xBard level seconds.

That would make it worth using.

Anything less, and it was a waste of dev time like so much else where Bards are concerned.

[Irinis]

Rather than put out feelers to the community, they come up with these half baked ideas.

That's hit the nail on the head right there.

Looks like this whole thing is a "pet idea" one of the developers had, and they don't actually play Bards (other than Warchanters) enough to know what Bard players want. Then they were so completely arrogant as to ignore years of threads asking for a different direction.

[Drakesblood]

Did some more testing with Song of Capering which was done in level 2 Hills area and Giant Hold

~Please note this was tested at level 20~

                                 Not Extended // Extended
Otto's Resistible Dance Time:           1 Min // 2 Min
Otto's Sphere of Dance Time:            1 Min // 2 Min
Otto's Irresistible Dance Time:     12-30 Sec // 24-60 Sec
Song of Capering Time:                45 Sec? // 1:40 Min <--- 120% extended song (80% from lingering +20% Capstone +20% from Virtuoso II

Please Note: 10 + CHR[+14] + Bard Capstone[+2] + Spell Level

                                 Not Heighten // Heighten
Otto's Resistible Dance DC:                27 // 32
Otto's Sphere of Dance DC:                 30 // 32
Otto's Irresistible Dance Time DC:   N/A(32?) // N/A
Song of Capering Time DC:             62 - 81 // N/A <--- Preform is 61

From further testing of spells and song only the song grants extra saves on hits unlike the spell which is a save every so often. If you can land Resistible don't bother with Irresistible due to the short duration, the only thing Irresistible has for it is it's "No fail" landing but if you got lucky monster could save out of Irresistible if you get it for 1 min.

The song of capering *Might* be better if you are a bard at level 12 WITHOUT Heighten and Extend meta-magics other then that this song is just about as useful as Song of Freedom (Single target break enchantment: 15 +1d20) which is not even on my hot bars.

[Raiderone]

PLease DEV's fix the Virtuoso Build cause I'm on the brink of becoming a SpellSinger!

I just like Virtuoso's better. But the cost is too much. And with broken
Songs it's making me rethink my opinion of Staying Virtuoso...

I like the new Songs...they just need to work..


And I dont know why your forcing Virtuoso's to get more songs when they
already get them in the PrE. Thats a negative right there.
Cause who really needs 25 Songs?

Oh and I hope the Virt II PrE isn't 4AP's. Virt's and SS are 4AP while Warchanter is 2AP. GOTTA be a BUG!!! Bad BUG.

[Drakesblood]

More testing since update...

Song of Capering

• Song Duration: 1:40 <--- (Lingering Song 4 + Capstone)
• Sing time: 0.5-1.0 Seconds
• Saves will accrue on every 4th Hit Vs. Song DC (Preform + 1d20)
• Song DC: Preform + 1d20 on landing and for every few hits
• Song Distance: 30-33 Units (2x Polar Ray Distance)
• No need for spell penetration check and can not be dispelled
• Works only on things that can be danced even if you have song of the undead/maker <--- still testing

All I can say is this: You are forgiven to whoever made these changes. I am now proud to be a virtuoso bard and am looking forward to soloing a few more epics. I tested in searing heights and a few epic mobs in Bargain for Blood and all I can say now is not enough songs! LOL! As it stands if song of capering was an AoE every epic/Elite run will need a bard for EPIC Crowd Control.

[Alintalkin]

More testing since update...

Song of Capering

• Song Duration: 1:40 <--- (Lingering Song 4 + Capstone)
• Sing time: 0.5-1.0 Seconds
• Saves will accrue on every 4th Hit Vs. Song DC (Preform + 1d20)
• Song DC: Preform + 1d20 on landing and for every few hits
• Song Distance: 30-33 Units (2x Polar Ray Distance)
• No need for spell penetration check and can not be dispelled
• Works only on things that can be danced even if you have song of the undead/maker <--- still testing

All I can say is this: You are forgiven to whoever made these changes. I am now proud to be a virtuoso bard and am looking forward to soloing a few more epics. I tested in searing heights and a few epic mobs in Bargain for Blood and all I can say now is not enough songs! LOL! As it stands if song of capering was an AoE every epic/Elite run will need a bard for EPIC Crowd Control.

Sounds awesome! Virt looks good now.

out of curiosity does it work on beholders (I am not sure if beholders can be made to dance)? If so it would be funny to see. Play a beholder a tune on a lute and the poor thing will dance till it dies .

[Drakesblood]

Sounds awesome! Virt looks good now.

out of curiosity does it work on beholders (I am not sure if beholders can be made to dance)? If so it would be funny to see. Play a beholder a tune on a lute and the poor thing will dance till it dies .

Beholders do dance but 90% of the time they fail because of anti-magic or get dispelled, but like all bard songs this one does not get dispelled. Matter of fact testing done in Invaders! proved that I could dance beholders before they spotted me. This is now getting more usefull, will do some more tests in Shavarath on some "Special" mobs...

Edit: Does not work on any Orange/Red/Purple Name monsters regardless if they give a chest or not or anything. Also if it is immune to fascinate/enthrall it's immune to Song of Capering.