Glad I waited to TR...

[SINIBYTE]

Been sitting on this monk, grinding out a few more +3 tomes, and was about to TR to a STR based Dark TOD build. I thought I'd wait on U7 before doing so, in case something changed.. SOO glad I did. Now I'm debating just shelving it. You know, people say "Right on, monk DPS is good, bring him in", with the TOD nerf, it'll instead be like the old days of dark monks "You're gimp DPS, we'd rather have a real DPS class...".

Maybe I'm exxagerating, but but I think that cutting one of my main damage sources in half, adding in a fort save, and throwing it up against newfound immunties... there are certaintly going to be better options for DPS in raids. And people will likely think twice when accepting raid requests from dark monks.

[Srozbun]

Been sitting on this monk, grinding out a few more +3 tomes, and was about to TR to a STR based Dark TOD build. I thought I'd wait on U7 before doing so, in case something changed.. SOO glad I did. Now I'm debating just shelving it. You know, people say "Right on, monk DPS is good, bring him in", with the TOD nerf, it'll instead be like the old days of dark monks "You're gimp DPS, we'd rather have a real DPS class...".

Maybe I'm exxagerating, but but I think that cutting one of my main damage sources in half, adding in a fort save, and throwing it up against newfound immunties... there are certaintly going to be better options for DPS in raids. And people will likely think twice when accepting raid requests from dark monks.

Nice. I got hit by the exact opposite end of the timing stick. I had ground out 20 ToDs, built all my GS, accrued all my +3 tomes. Then I TRed to a STR/CON based Dark ToD build (Metaru's). Today I hit level 13, also ground out my devouts. Was great until I read the nerf. I'm uncertain of whether I should shelf him right now and start working on some other toons (like my wiz, that archmage line looks promising) or if I should race him to 20 again and TR again before update 7 comes out and no one wants a dark monk again.

I hope I'm over exxagerating and after playing him in U7 I'll not really notice that much of a DPS drop. But unfortunately I think my monk has 8 Wis right now and landing 500 points on anything now will be a stretch outside of a failed fort roll.

[Purgatory]

well my monk a completionist lucky been taking my time to lvl up and is only at 9 and havent started to eat my +3 and 4 tomes i been saving, just gona finish leveling him then TRing to a real class that can do real dps like a maybe a hvy cross bow using spell singing bard

[Ragnar7]

Yeah, I have a level 19 dark monk tr,I am pretty upset with the nerf. Touch of death is the only useful ability you get from dark path. I guess turbine really wants us to play light monks considering all the awesome new abilities they get and nerfing ours. I'm about to tr into something else, or just stop playing. I spent a lot of time grinding xp and items. With the nerf monk dps will drop and its already hard to convince people its decent now, unless you have played with them before.

[orakio]

Just figured i would burst the bubble of anyone who thinks switching over to light path will solve their monk woes. Healing curse is broken, seems to go off less than 1 in every 6 melee hits sometimes taking over 15 hits to proc once. The jade prison has a 1 minute cooldown and the smite tainted still has the bug that prevents your offhand from ever attacking when you use it.

[Mobeius]

Yeah, I have a level 19 dark monk tr,I am pretty upset with the nerf. Touch of death is the only useful ability you get from dark path. I guess turbine really wants us to play light monks considering all the awesome new abilities they get and nerfing ours. I'm about to tr into something else, or just stop playing. I spent a lot of time grinding xp and items. With the nerf monk dps will drop and its already hard to convince people its decent now, unless you have played with them before.

Really? You didnt think doing 1500 to 2500 UNTYPED damage no save every 15 seconds wasnt overpowered?

1st - Dark side is supposed to be diametricaly opposed to light side which is postive energy, so it only makes sens it going negative energy instead of untyped energy.

2nd - no save at all from having x3 to x5 attacks that do mass damage is too much for anyone, so adding a save to it goes right along with monks considering all other monk attacks have a save.

Its still a powerful attack, I am sure there will be the whine wagon and people quiting over this nerf and some will try to spin this in to a one attack breakdown and ignore their own bragging of the 1500 to 2500 damage attacks.

Anyone who didnt see this coming was pretty naive or folled themselves in to beleiving this would stand. Then offcourse the exploiters always raise cain as their "whole" class design was on exploiting this.

All in all, I think this just brings dark monks in line to where the should be. Monks are good DPS anyone who disagrees just doesnt know the class.

[SINIBYTE]

Really? You didnt think doing 1500 to 2500 UNTYPED damage no save every 15 seconds wasnt overpowered?

All in all, I think this just brings dark monks in line to where the should be. Monks are good DPS anyone who disagrees just doesnt know the class.

I figured you'd be around cheering the dark monk nerf... And as for "knowing the class", you should probably keep your mouth shut. 2 days ago you said Shadowwalk was the equivalent to blur, and thought it was 10% concealment.

And it's not 1500 to 2500. It's 500 to 2500, and anything in excess of 1500 is a bug that's been acknowledged since day one. Know what you're talking about before you post your inane ramblings.

[Mobeius]

I figured you'd be around cheering the dark monk nerf... And as for "knowing the class", you should probably keep your mouth shut. 2 days ago you said Shadowwalk was the equivalent to blur, and thought it was 10% concealment.

And it's not 1500 to 2500. It's 500 to 2500, and anything in excess of 1500 is a bug that's been acknowledged since day one. Know what you're talking about before you post your inane ramblings.

Oh are we back to that again? I made ONE little msitake saying it was 10% and not 25% and ALL because of that I dont know anything now. You are also the one that said it stacks with blur and displacement, which it doesnt. Two different rolls... I dont care about mechanics... it doesnt stack....

I cheer anything that is balanced for game mechanics. However, I am sure you will go from bragging the 1500 to 2500 damage you were doing to spinning it down to how it sucks now and breaking down one single attack. Oh wait you already did that. 500? How many times did you mention just 500? More often you bragged about how often you 1500 and sometimes can get to 2500 damage? So now 500 comes back in to play with the nerf? Great Spin Doctoring.

[Mobeius]

How many more neg reps are you going to dish out? My god are you that thin skinned?



Well you will run out eventually.

[TheIvanovFamily]

I do not have the exact list of statistical chances of 1, 2, 3, or 4 ToD hits per activation, so I will not attempt to give numbers that may be false.

1,000 damage is what you usually get from ToD.
1,500 damage from ToD happens occasionally, but not overly often.
2,000 damage I have seen a small handful of times during levels 8-20 on a 1st TR monk and levels 8-20 on a 2nd TR, who is now capped and has run most likely over 100 hours of epic and raid content.

Quoting "omg 500-2500 damage!" repeatedly is a misrepresentation of what ToD actually does as well as disservice to the people that play the Monk class and are honestly concerned about the future of their toon with the recent ToD nerf in the U7 Lamannia patch notes. Please at least make an attempt to base your points off of factual or otherwise reliable data.

[Inspire]

Ninja Spy is still an exceptionally powerful PrE, and we dont even have tier 3 yet.

Im kinda glad both my dark monks are wisdom based since I didnt care for the 'one trick pony' build, so I should still have a 45-47 dc on touch of death.

I guess no one is considering that you can deal 625-1875(3125 with known double strike bug) on a failed fortitude save or 313-939(1565) on a sucessful fortitude save with the dark x3 finisher applied to living targets(who are not immune) beforehand. Yes it is unfortunate that the selection for touch of death has been narrowed down, but it does make sense that non-living targets cannot be touched by death effects.

Regarding the mobs that are immune you have other options such as stunning fist/freezing the lifeblood(humaniods)/falling star strike to do auto crits/sneak attacks for deathwarded opponents, winter's touch with icyburst on handwraps, or even all-consuming flame to boost the dps of your casters firewall. Yes it may take more work and you may have to work around certain immunities but there is no way I am going to be rerolling my dark monk anytime soon.

[Rumbaar]

Really? You didnt think doing 1500 to 2500 UNTYPED damage no save every 15 seconds wasnt overpowered?

No that is the fault of the poorly planned and implemented U5 TWF nerf LAG fix.

Without that change, the ToD wasn't an issue. Now Monk get another nerf in their nerf coffin!

How many more neg reps are you going to dish out? My god are you that thin skinned?

A person can only give one out in a 24hour period to the same person, and then I think they have to wait 5 days to give to that person again. So I think you are getting it from more than one source.

[SINIBYTE]

Oh are we back to that again? I made ONE little msitake saying it was 10% and not 25% and ALL because of that I dont know anything now. You are also the one that said it stacks with blur and displacement, which it doesnt. Two different rolls... I dont care about mechanics... it doesnt stack....

I cheer anything that is balanced for game mechanics. However, I am sure you will go from bragging the 1500 to 2500 damage you were doing to spinning it down to how it sucks now and breaking down one single attack. Oh wait you already did that. 500? How many times did you mention just 500? More often you bragged about how often you 1500 and sometimes can get to 2500 damage? So now 500 comes back in to play with the nerf? Great Spin Doctoring.

It't not one little mistake, you continually spread misinformation regarding the class on these forums on a regular basis. You touted how amazing human monks were, and how they were the best race for the class, going so far as to state that halflings were subpar DPS, despite all evidence to the contrary. You make ridiculous claims and remarks, and have nothing but anecdotal "proof" in the form of "oh yeh? well, I did this one time".

How many more neg reps are you going to dish out? My god are you that thin skinned?



Well you will run out eventually.

If I could I would. You think I'm the only person on these forums with a dark monk that's annoyed that someone like you would actually cheer when the nerfhammer comes down? Who cheers for nerfs of any class? Are you satisfied, sitting and enjoying the moment that "all them dark monks that ridiculed me are finally getting theirs!".

[Mobeius]

It't not one little mistake, you continually spread misinformation regarding the class on these forums on a regular basis. You touted how amazing human monks were, and how they were the best race for the class, going so far as to state that halflings were subpar DPS, despite all evidence to the contrary. You make ridiculous claims and remarks, and have nothing but anecdotal "proof" in the form of "oh yeh? well, I did this one time".



If I could I would. You think I'm the only person on these forums with a dark monk that's annoyed that someone like you would actually cheer when the nerfhammer comes down? Who cheers for nerfs of any class? Are you satisfied, sitting and enjoying the moment that "all them dark monks that ridiculed me are finally getting theirs!".

AGAIN you misquote me.. I never said halflings were subpar DPS I said their DPS numbers are lower. Humans DO make great monks, never said they were the best.. Now you wanna pic and choose my words without showing the entire context to spin things to your advantage. In the post you like to quote... I said WF, Humans and Halflings all make great monks and break down my opinion on each and where I say that halflings have less DPS due to their restrictions. Even with that said, I said in the VERY same post as the begining disclaimer that it was MY opinion. You disagreed and now you have little high school vandetta against me.

You really should be a politician, you are great taking small "soundbites" and spin doctoring to your need for some pathetic self satisfaction.

As far as the neg rep, unless they man up and own the neg rep and say it, then I am pretty sure who I know is doing it, considering one of the prerequisties to giving neg rep you have to have lots of postive rep.

Cheering? Hmmm Why dont we make all classes have an insta kill button doing 50K untyped damage and people can be happy? Nerfs are common and needed to BALANCE the game and because I beleive in balance I am some bad guy cheering the nerf. Maybe I should change the word from nerf to balance pass... because thats what it is... Anything otherwise is you just whining because you chose to build and exploit that function. Just like the batman builds did back in the day.


BTW you convicted yourself on the neg rep, it doesnt mention YOU specifically giving neg rep... Its directed to the person that did gave me neg rep. Thank you for confirming.

[Rellos]

i just wanna know why people think this nerf is fair and nessesary when many other classes have abilities that are close to or on par with ToD(Stupid Multi-proccing aside). Slayer arrows and Pally smites are 2 that come to mind. So yeah let the AA run around with his Lit 2 Slayer arrow manyshotting. But nerf the Monk because IMO he was doing viable dps that is now gonna be a lot lower.

Honestly with all the Light changes and(at least on my server) peoples desire for light based monks. why would you ever wanna be dark when u can take shintao 3 and bypass all DR types (Silver with the new Tier and good and evil with the shintao monk set) and provide amazing party support.

IMO they should just make ToD like Cleave and have a seperate attack animation so it only goes off once and isn't affected by TWF/Dual Strikes.

[Mobeius]

i just wanna know why people think this nerf is fair and nessesary when many other classes have abilities that are close to or on par with ToD(Stupid Multi-proccing aside). Slayer arrows and Pally smites are 2 that come to mind. So yeah let the AA run around with his Lit 2 Slayer arrow manyshotting. But nerf the Monk because IMO he was doing viable dps that is now gonna be a lot lower.

Honestly with all the Light changes and(at least on my server) peoples desire for light based monks. why would you ever wanna be dark when u can take shintao 3 and bypass all DR types (Silver with the new Tier and good and evil with the shintao monk set) and provide amazing party support.

IMO they should just make ToD like Cleave and have a seperate attack animation so it only goes off once and isn't affected by TWF/Dual Strikes.

Quoted from another posterd

Why?
Because it needed to be nerfed to get it back to where it was intended to be.
When it was originally released, ToD was a single attack that did 500 pts of damage.
When U5 changed the way that off hand attacks worked, it became likely that you'd get two of these stikes, and possible to get three of these strikes.
This was never intended.
Offering a save for half damage just brings it closer to what it was originally, closer to what it should have been all along, and closer to what we were all so excited about when it first came out.

If they fail either save, you're still getting more than you did originally.
If they fail both saves, you're still getting what you did recently.

As far as Shintao, I am holding judgment before I move to that. AP cost is very heavy and the ability to bypass DR is easily overcome with some metalline handwraps.

FYI, I saw someone make mention the devs looking at slayer arrows so that might be next. Paladin Smites are exceptionaly finite and limited to evil outsiders. I think something is getting fixed with that too this update.

[Rellos]

other poster was me

my problem with the current metalline handwrap issue(being a higher + then normal metalline) and not being able to craft a min2 it is a pretty hefty dps loss to use those when there are weapons like min2 and +x Holy burst silver ? of Pure good.

Though we do have a Tod Ring to compensate a bit on that as well.

Either way I was thinking of going back to light in U7 and this just kinda pushed me into the door. Still think they should just fix the multiproccing though.

Yeah i saw someone mention the slayer arrow issue but i didn't realize the smites only got that high dmg on evil outsiders, figured it was a evil requirement, my bad.

[airyxi]

We're not playing this game trying to "exploit" it. You made a change, and it made a class line (dark monk) attractive. Whereas it was NOT before. Now you're going back on your changes. People invest time in your service; and now you've basically wasted a lot of our time. Why can't you do something smart like make it do less damage at lower levels, because 500-1000 is not a one shot killer in the end game content. It is NOT over powered end game; but it is extremely important for a dps monk to have. I play a character you designed. The character was designed to use Touch of Death. I've seen it proc 4x ONCE. 3x once a day. It does 500-1000 dmg on the average. People who boast of more are exaggerating. I would NEVER call the current dark monk OP, even if built to perfection. It is actually USEFUL instead of USELESS. Did someone one shot you in the Wayward Lobster? Really...just lower the damage at lower levels...compounding to 500 at lvl 18 or 20. And if you dont want it hitting more than 3 or 4x...make it so. Maybe ToD needs fixing at the mid levels; but you guys did it in a bad manner. That is why we call it a nerf. You developers are crazy, do you even play this game?

[Fafnir]

Just figured i would burst the bubble of anyone who thinks switching over to light path will solve their monk woes. Healing curse is broken, seems to go off less than 1 in every 6 melee hits sometimes taking over 15 hits to proc once. The jade prison has a 1 minute cooldown and the smite tainted still has the bug that prevents your offhand from ever attacking when you use it.

Can you post about this on Llama and explain it for the Devs? (If not already)

[SINIBYTE]

We're not playing this game trying to "exploit" it. You made a change, and it made a class line (dark monk) attractive. Whereas it was NOT before. Now you're going back on your changes. People invest time in your service; and now you've basically wasted a lot of our time. Why can't you do something smart like make it do less damage at lower levels, because 500-1000 is not a one shot killer in the end game content. It is NOT over powered end game; but it is extremely important for a dps monk to have. I play a character you designed. The character was designed to use Touch of Death. I've seen it proc 4x ONCE. 3x once a day. It does 500-1000 dmg on the average. People who boast of more are exaggerating. I would NEVER call the current dark monk OP, even if built to perfection. It is actually USEFUL instead of USELESS. Did someone one shot you in the Wayward Lobster? Really...just lower the damage at lower levels...compounding to 500 at lvl 18 or 20. And if you dont want it hitting more than 3 or 4x...make it so. Maybe ToD needs fixing at the mid levels; but you guys did it in a bad manner. That is why we call it a nerf. You developers are crazy, do you even play this game?

Exactly, it's not a PVP game, we don't need class balance of that sort. Anyone advocating the nerf of any class in a PVE game is just showing their jealousy. We need balance against content, and as it stood, it was fine.

We all expected them to correct the multiproc at some point in time, we all figure it would be U7 or U8.

And it's not just wasted TIME... it's wasted MONEY! I'm ****ed that I spent money prepping my character for a TR to build a dark path STR based monk tank, only to find out it likely won't be a viable tank now. Those cheering about balance, aren't really cheering about balance because "it's a better game now", they're cheering because the nerf brings dark monks DPS down to their subpar DPS build. It's jealousy, pure and simple. They;re jealous that we do great DPS, while they don't.

My TOD geared monk is still outDPS'd by TOD geared barbarians. And the proof is their ability to hold aggro against me.

I decided I wanted to tets some of these changes myself, and I wanted to see the damage numbers. So I jumped on Lam, and jumped into the Sub. I ran up and TOD'd a skellie. Know what happened? Nothing. No TOD. The Ki was gone. The 15 second timer was ticking. But "Immune" is all that showed over his head. What happens when this goes live? Shroud portals will take longer to beat down. Less DPS on Horoth, prolonging the fight, coupled with the caster nerf to waves, means more room for error. TOD did not make endgame content trivial, it was still a challenge, AND it was fun. Cutting dark monk DPS in half, fort save, adding immunities, etc is lame.