Paladins gain Intimidate

[Jendrak]

I'm thinking that Paladins should perhaps gain a + intimidate line and a + to intimidate from DoS. Otherwise, they're going to be lacking in the intimidate section a bit. Also, Shintao get's a bonus to intimidate, so why not DoS?

Great idea...can anyone else think of a way to completly screw all SD's over.

Seriously though, the only thing a SD really had going for them was that they could hit intims higher than their DoS counterparts. With this added not only does a DoS have better AC and a choice between massive DR/resistance/healingamp and the regular defensive stance but now has comparable intim to a SD as well.

No, pallys should not get anything else added to this until something is done to buff up SD. Simply because if they dont get it SD is going to be the deep wood sniper of the meele's.

[Matuse]

When in the history of DDO has turbine ever offered any kind of free respec when they change something like this?

When in the history of DDO has Turbine ever added (or removed) a class skill such that the ONLY way to adjust your character to the change is with a reincarnation?

Never? Oh...then that's why.

[Narcissistic_Martyr]

Great idea...can anyone else think of a way to completly screw all SD's over.

Seriously though, the only thing a SD really had going for them was that they could hit intims higher than their DoS counterparts. With this added not only does a DoS have better AC and a choice between massive DR/resistance/healingamp and the regular defensive stance but now has comparable intim to a SD as well.

No, pallys should not get anything else added to this until something is done to buff up SD. Simply because if they dont get it SD is going to be the deep wood sniper of the meele's.

Good point, I withdraw my suggestion. I was thinking from a greedy player perspective rather than a game balance one.

[sephiroth1084]

To everyone who thinks a free heart of wood should go to all pallys I gotta ask....are your helmets on to tight?

When in the history of DDO has turbine ever offered any kind of free respec when they change something like this?

While I can see why you would want one lets be honest here. Why the hell would they give you something that they can charge for? If your counting on them to do the semi-decent thing you might as well trying to milk Pepsi from a cow cause it aint gonna happen.

Actually, we have in the past received free feat respecs. In fact, one of my characters still has one pending.

[testing1234]

Actually, we have in the past received free feat respecs. In fact, one of my characters still has one pending.

yes but they never offered anything to change skills, what you are referring to was not tied to a single class but a major overhaul of the hole game.
should be noted that most of the games life they did not have any tools to change skills only recently with reincarnation have they gotten the tools to change skills, even if it is a side effect and not intended solely for that purpose.

[sephiroth1084]

yes but they never offered anything to change skills, what you are referring to was not tied to a single class but a major overhaul of the hole game.
should be noted that most of the games life they did not have any tools to change skills only recently with reincarnation have they gotten the tools to change skills, even if it is a side effect and not intended solely for that purpose.

How is this relevant to the discussion at hand?

Have they made as drastic an alteration to skills before?
Not that I'm aware of.

Have we had the ability to make adjustments to skill points spent before?
No.

Have we they made drastic adjustments to feats in the past and provided us with a free version of the tool needed to meet those changes?
Yes.

Now, the only differences between the feat situation and the skills situation are that the only way to fix skills allows other alterations and costs real world money. How Turbine handles this is kind of up in the air, but we have past actions to look to for a hopeful possibility.

[Zombiekenny]

They gave an additional thing to palys, they didn't take anything away. Your paly is no worse with this change, and no better than it was before the change, so why should you get a free respec out of it? You can potentially make it better with the respec, but the change as it stands didn't do anything to existing palys.

[sephiroth1084]

They gave an additional thing to palys, they didn't take anything away. Your paly is no worse with this change, and no better than it was before the change, so why should you get a free respec out of it? You can potentially make it better with the respec, but the change as it stands didn't do anything to existing palys.

What is the point in making this sort of change, which has been asked for since DDO went live years ago, if not to give (existing) paladins a boon?

If an enhancement were changed to make something cost fewer AP, we could pay gold to change it, or (for some changes that have been made) have received free enhancement respecs.

Are you just itching to purchase stuff from Turbine? Do you think it is reasonable for every paladin who spent AP on cross-classed intimidate to remain unchanged, or have to spend real money to make use of an alteration of this scale? I don't, and I'm sure I am not alone in feeling this way.

[butlerfamilywa]

I'm sitting here lauging to myself.

I have a level 20 Pure Human Paladin, DOS III With almost an Epic Chimera's Fang, just waiting.

Everyone called me crazy for not going 18/2, or some stupid multiclass build.

Am I going to go Half-Elf for the extra 15 second cool down intim? NO.

I can get my intim to 70, as a 20 Paladin, with saving throws in the 40's or higher... I'm happy

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=256550

[Angelus_dead]

They gave an additional thing to palys, they didn't take anything away. Your paly is no worse with this change, and no better than it was before the change

This is simply incorrect. There is such a thing as a "proxy nerf":
A choice can be weakened even if it isn't changed, because the alternatives to that choice were made better.

[Necrological]

finally pallys got the love they needed. now it looks like I will have to LR to fix my build which is ok for me anyways.

[Drfirewater79]

How will this affect current paladins? Will we need to purchase an expensive Lesser Heart of Wood in order to make this adjustment?

hmmm how will it effect current paladins .. it will make them worth taking into parties so its great for them ..

how will it effect current fighters .. it means defender builds are screwed ... totally useless now ... unless i am missing something ...

Paladins now will have higher intimidate ... on top of higher AC ... do more dps due smites ... higher umd because of cha base ...

I just wonder how crazy the palidan nerf is gonna be in update 8 to make up for it?

[Quikster]

Be sure to send me what your thinking of making, as Ill be TRing an old AC toon.

Gack! I totally spaced it, Ive been real busy this week. 2 exams in school, 1 kid started algebra in math this week and is totally lost, the wife is having back issues so my "chores" have been ramped up, and then of course its premier week for a lot of the fall shows on major networks, all that and trying to get raid timers on one server and leveling two alts on another :/ I totally forgot about you sorry. Ill try to get to that in the next day or two

Will you still base the build around the LOTD? In your fighter thread post you mentioned about the build being centered around the Litany. The negative effects the litany are very minuscule compared to the benefits but just wondering about your opinion.

Im not sure what I posted there, I wouldnt say its centered around it, but currently thats the gear my fighter is looking for. Im a few runs away from 40 and have been focusing on timers on 2 other alts. Hopefully it comes soon. I was half kidding when I typed the response in this thread, I forgot to smiley it. I was all caught up in the ToD nerf and doom and gloom I was having a lil fun. I do have a paly thats been on the shelf I may be more motivated to tr now.

Still waiting for the WF 18pal/2mk AC toon

Bah see above How are yas, havent been on sarlona much lately so havent seen some of yas. Blow out anyones eardrums lately

They gave an additional thing to palys, they didn't take anything away. Your paly is no worse with this change, and no better than it was before the change, so why should you get a free respec out of it? You can potentially make it better with the respec, but the change as it stands didn't do anything to existing palys.

I disagree. I for 1 am getting sick of having to LR everytime turbine changes something in order to either A take advantage of it, or B get around a nerf. A paly that has half ranks could now have full ranks, a splash that has full ranks could now have more skill points for other things. These skill points are important as palys only get a bit of them.

hmmm how will it effect current paladins .. it will make them worth taking into parties so its great for them ..

how will it effect current fighters .. it means defender builds are screwed ... totally useless now ... unless i am missing something ...

Paladins now will have higher intimidate ... on top of higher AC ... do more dps due smites ... higher umd because of cha base ...

I just wonder how crazy the palidan nerf is gonna be in update 8 to make up for it?

Not really. Fighters in general will still get higher intim. +6 for defender if going that route, many more feats to play with. I think your still going to have a hard time getting a paly to 80 intim and big ac, and big dps. BTW it aint the smites that are going to kill fighters in dps, its DM IV and DS III. Palys are still insanely tight in AP and feats, I dont see it as OP'd

[Jendrak]

When in the history of DDO has Turbine ever added (or removed) a class skill such that the ONLY way to adjust your character to the change is with a reincarnation?

Never? Oh...then that's why.

Really? Never in the history of DDO? So when they finally fixed evasion you could "adjust" your toon without re-rolling? Oh thats right you couldn't.

Actually, we have in the past received free feat respecs. In fact, one of my characters still has one pending.

Forgot about that, cant remember what was changed but good call. However, a one time incident does not change the fact that their precident is to basically give players the finger and say deal with it.

I dont see anychance for this to change espically given that they actually stand to lose potental revenue and lets be honest.....they are here to make money apeasing the player base is a distant second unless doing so makes money.

[sephiroth1084]

hmmm how will it effect current paladins .. it will make them worth taking into parties so its great for them ..

how will it effect current fighters .. it means defender builds are screwed ... totally useless now ... unless i am missing something ...

Paladins now will have higher intimidate ... on top of higher AC ... do more dps due smites ... higher umd because of cha base ...

I just wonder how crazy the palidan nerf is gonna be in update 8 to make up for it?

???
The only difference between paladins before this change and after it, is that they no longer have to splash a level of fighter or rogue for access to intimidate, and they'll have some more skill points to work with.

The Stalwart Defender will still probably have a higher intimidate because they gain +6 from their PrE, have a little more AP freedom to spend on Intim enhancements, have more feats to spend on stuff like Dragonmarks and Denieth enhancements, and aren't necessarily way behind a paladin on Cha.

Also, SD's have a higher potential AC than DoS's, since the two can get up to the same AC independently, but if you stand them next to each other, the fighter ends up with 6 more AC.

[captainker]

So wait, do pallys actually get it as a class skill THIS update? I didn't see it in the release notes, only heard that they were thinking about making it a class skill or something.

[Uska]

Cool.

+1 to the idea all paladins should get a bound lesser +3 heart in the mail or inventory.

just a plain lesser heart why should they get a +3?

[Ranmaru2]

just a plain lesser heart why should they get a +3?

Class splashes in order to gain the skill itself at full value? It allows one to go pure.

[Lithic]

That's not an adequate excuse.

Every Paladin should get a message on log-in directing them to speak to a trainer for a free re-allocation of all skillpoints. If that's too much work to program, then they should find a Heart of Wood in their mailbox.

Yes, giving out Hearts of Wood could allow those characters to respec more than just their Intimidate skillpoints, but that's better than the alternative of disallowing a legitimate adjustment to the change.

Such hearts of wood should have a 30day expiry date (and be BTC), so they are actually used for adjusting characters based on a recent change, rather than hoarded for future use.

Such timed hearts would allow the devs to be much more generous with such items every time there is a major change, without killing turbine's heart of wood profit margin.

[Darkrok]

Such hearts of wood should have a 30day expiry date (and be BTC), so they are actually used for adjusting characters based on a recent change, rather than hoarded for future use.

Such timed hearts would allow the devs to be much more generous with such items every time there is a major change, without killing turbine's heart of wood profit margin.

+1 and excellent suggestion. I'd even be open to a one week time limit. They just need to allow classes that get major changes applied to them (in this update monks, paladins, and wizards) a way to adjust to game changes with updates that doesn't involved rare in-game items or turbine points.