Touch of Death Change

[Glenalth]

I'd rather just see ToD damage be a multiple of your Wisdom modifier than this mess. Makes Wisdom more valuable. Makes Water stance more valuable. Keeps things relatively consistent instead of this inconsistent mess. These all-or-nothing or all-or-half mechanics just bug me sometimes. I wish things would scale more smoothely.

That's a neat idea. It would probably work well if the overall damage was lowered along with the cool-down and cost or else the multiplier needed to make it work would be so huge that a couple points of Wisdom would be a large swing in the amount of damage.

[Mobeius]

Really? You didnt think doing 1500 to 2500 UNTYPED damage no save every 15 seconds wasnt overpowered?

1st - Dark side is supposed to be diametricaly opposed to light side which is postive energy, so it only makes sens it going negative energy instead of untyped energy.

2nd - no save at all from having x3 to x5 attacks that do mass damage is too much for anyone, so adding a save to it goes right along with monks considering all other monk attacks have a save.

Its still a powerful attack, I am sure there will be the whine wagon and people quiting over this nerf and some will try to spin this in to a one attack breakdown and ignore their own bragging of the 1500 to 2500 damage attacks.

Anyone who didnt see this coming was pretty naive or fooled themselves in to beleiving this would stand. Then offcourse the exploiters always raise cain as their "whole" class design was on exploiting this.

All in all, I think this just brings dark monks in line to where the should be. Monks are good DPS anyone who disagrees just doesnt know the class.

[SINIBYTE]

Also, since you're cutting the damage in half can you cut the AP reqs in half as well? 50 Ki, 15 seconds, heavy AP reqs - all to do what my level 10 barb does in 2 crits. Lame.

[SINIBYTE]

Really? You didnt think doing 1500 to 2500 UNTYPED damage no save every 15 seconds wasnt overpowered?

1st - Dark side is supposed to be diametricaly opposed to light side which is postive energy, so it only makes sens it going negative energy instead of untyped energy.

2nd - no save at all from having x3 to x5 attacks that do mass damage is too much for anyone, so adding a save to it goes right along with monks considering all other monk attacks have a save.

Its still a powerful attack, I am sure there will be the whine wagon and people quiting over this nerf and some will try to spin this in to a one attack breakdown and ignore their own bragging of the 1500 to 2500 damage attacks.

Anyone who didnt see this coming was pretty naive or fooled themselves in to beleiving this would stand. Then offcourse the exploiters always raise cain as their "whole" class design was on exploiting this.

All in all, I think this just brings dark monks in line to where the should be. Monks are good DPS anyone who disagrees just doesnt know the class.

I figured you'd be around cheering the dark monk nerf... And as for "knowing the class", you should probably keep your mouth shut. 2 days ago you said Shadowwalk was the equivalent to blur, and thought it was 10% concealment.

And it's not 1500 to 2500. It's 500 to 2500, and anything in excess of 1500 is a bug that's been acknowledged since day one. Know what you're talking about before you post your inane ramblings.

I can copypasta too.

[Mobeius]

Also, since you're cutting the damage in half can you cut the AP reqs in half as well? 50 Ki, 15 seconds, heavy AP reqs - all to do what my level 10 barb does in 2 crits. Lame.

Soon as they cut RotP AP costs by half.

[Mobeius]

I figured you'd be around cheering the dark monk nerf... And as for "knowing the class", you should probably keep your mouth shut. 2 days ago you said Shadowwalk was the equivalent to blur, and thought it was 10% concealment.

And it's not 1500 to 2500. It's 500 to 2500, and anything in excess of 1500 is a bug that's been acknowledged since day one. Know what you're talking about before you post your inane ramblings.

I can copypasta too.

and that reply to that...

Oh are we back to that again? I made ONE little msitake saying it was 10% and not 25% and ALL because of that I dont know anything now. You are also the one that said it stacks with blur and displacement, which it doesnt. Two different rolls... I dont care about mechanics... it doesnt stack....

I cheer anything that is balanced for game mechanics. However, I am sure you will go from bragging the 1500 to 2500 damage you were doing to spinning it down to how it sucks now and breaking down one single attack. Oh wait you already did that. 500? How many times did you mention just 500? More often you bragged about how often you 1500 and sometimes can get to 2500 damage? So now 500 comes back in to play with the nerf? Great Spin Doctoring.

Any more spin doctoring? What kind of cheese can I get you?

[Rumbaar]

Really? You didnt think doing 1500 to 2500 UNTYPED damage no save every 15 seconds wasnt overpowered?

No that is the fault of the poorly planned and implemented U5 TWF nerf LAG fix.

Without that change, the ToD wasn't an issue. Now Monk get another nerf in their nerf coffin!

[Junts]

Cant resist nitpicking-
Negative energy Plane. Not void. Plane.

There is no negative energy plane on Ebberon.

[Mobeius]

No that is the fault of the poorly planned and implemented U5 TWF nerf LAG fix.

Without that change, the ToD wasn't an issue. Now Monk get another nerf in their nerf coffin!

To be honest... this the first real "nerf" I seen for monks, and probably deserved. Considering the current mechanics. Because I didnt jump on the dark monk band wagon I have dark monk haters. Got some anonymous neg rep for being fair and thinking TOD was too powerful. Apparently the devs agree with me.

[LeLoric]

There really is no reason to not have it be negative damage.

For flavor purposes its touch of Death meaning it should only work on the living so undead and constructs are out. Also deathward would typically stop something of this nature also.

For balance purposes monks already carry some of the best dps against constructs and undead without tod. They already rely less on crits and have a faster attack animation and full strength damage to offhands. I see arguments of other classes are already hitting for 500 so it's no big deal. These classes are not hitting for 500 against undead and constructs except on a rare greensteel proc. If you dont think monk dps is overbalanced against these creature types get on your best non-monk dps character and go kill the portal in refuge. Then go out on your monk and do the same. The time of the monk will be much faster.

[Doxmaster]

There is no negative energy plane on Ebberon.

Really now?

http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/Mabar

Mabar the Endless Night is a blackened realm where the faintest spark of light is quickly devoured by the unending darkness. It is a plane suffused with negative energy and the antithesis of Irian. Negative energy spells are maximized and all the inhabitants of this plane are immune to effects from negative energy. Positive energy spells are impeded here.

vs
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Negative_Energy_Plane

Negative Energy Plane
To an observer, there’s little to see on the Negative Energy Plane. It is a dark, empty place, an eternal pit where a traveler can fall until the plane itself steals away all light and life. The Negative Energy Plane is the most hostile of the Inner Planes, and the most uncaring and intolerant of life. Only creatures immune to its life-draining energies can survive there.
...
Major negative-dominant. Some areas within the plane have only the minor negative-dominant trait, and these islands tend to be inhabited.

If you want to debate semantics, Mabar might not quite be a negative energy plane because it wasnt called a negative energy plane. Still, with things like "infused with negative energy" in Mabar's description...

[Mobeius]

There really is no reason to not have it be negative damage.

It fits, thats why, if Light side is Positive Energy, then it only stands that Dark side should be negative energy.

FYI, Quivering palm doesnt work on death ward or epic mobs either.

[LeLoric]

It fits, thats why, if Light side is Positive Energy, then it only stands that Dark side should be negative energy.

FYI, Quivering palm doesnt work on death ward or epic mobs either.

Please reread what you qouted and the rest of my post im advocating the negative energy change.

[Mobeius]

Please reread what you qouted and the rest of my post im advocating the negative energy change.

I was agreeing with you, +1 repped you too.

[RuneDude]

To be honest... this the first real "nerf" I seen for monks, and probably deserved. Considering the current mechanics. Because I didnt jump on the dark monk band wagon I have dark monk haters. Got some anonymous neg rep for being fair and thinking TOD was too powerful. Apparently the devs agree with me.

I think most agree that some kind of nerf was needed. But it when it goes all the way to the extreme (the damage type change). We are losing the chance for 5 hits to 3 which is good and never should of been. A save for half is sensible. Wish they could just do that and see how it goes. Ninja already doesn't have tier 3, and Shinto just got a nice boost. Negative finishers aren't all that great. It seems they just want us to respec to light. Dark didnt as much a nerf as light needed a boost.

Dark monk wasnt a exploit to jump at. I don't mind it being less effective, but being unable to effect certain mobs at all now is upsetting . Of course damage scaled by level and a over-haul of most of the dark finishes would be awesome and better, but just adding the save seems enough.

[Doxmaster]

I was agreeing with you, +1 repped you too.

^^
Simply hilarious.

[Eladrin]

A clarification, since I've seen this misstated a lot:

Deathblock effects (including the Epic Ward and most similar effects) do not protect against Touch of Death.

The Death Ward spell does protect against negative energy, but is significantly rarer than generic deathblocks.

[SINIBYTE]

A clarification, since I've seen this misstated a lot:

Deathblock effects (including the Epic Ward and most similar effects) do not protect against Touch of Death.

The Death Ward spell does protect against negative energy, but is significantly rarer than generic deathblocks.

It's like you gave us a shiny new bike, and as we rode it and had fun, you decided to take it back and give us our older sisters leftover rusty 10 speed.

[Rumbaar]

To be honest... this the first real "nerf" I seen for monks, and probably deserved. Considering the current mechanics. Because I didnt jump on the dark monk band wagon I have dark monk haters. Got some anonymous neg rep for being fair and thinking TOD was too powerful. Apparently the devs agree with me.

I would argue the 'fix' to stunning and weighted wraps was a major nerf to Monks. They actually fixed the DC for wraps but then introduced a fort check and take out a % of automatic stunning effects. Which was a major source of Monks DPS/party buff {stun = auto crits}

[Mobeius]

I would argue the 'fix' to stunning and weighted wraps was a major nerf to Monks. They actually fixed the DC for wraps but then introduced a fort check and take out a % of automatic stunning effects. Which was a major source of Monks DPS/party buff {stun = auto crits}

Even that, seem like a balance check for the new off hand proc and really I do stun less with my monk but it still seems to be reliable.