Touch of Death Change

[Angelus_dead]

Epic: Expect to only do half damage ever.

Epic monsters no longer have great saving throws.

Now, since I don't remember anybody complaining that this ability was 'too powerful' before they could get several hits off at the same time..

Your memory is incomplete. As soon as Touch of Death was first announced, many people complained that it was too strong, especially in comparison to light monks.

[SINIBYTE]

Your memory is incomplete. As soon as Touch of Death was first announced, many people complained that it was too strong, especially in comparison to light monks.

Funny, I don't remeber it that way... I remeber people sighing relief that Dark was *finally* viable.


....


You know I was already dissappointed enough when I only got a single proc TOD, while I watched other heavily invested pure DPS classes do the same damage in half the time with nothing but autoattack. Can't wait to see my dissappointment when I only land for 250.

[KoboldKiller]

The more I think about it the more I believe this change was due to the devs not liking how we built the Dark Monk.

I think they had a certain build in mind and too many of us ignored it so they decided to "show" us.

Could be wrong though.

*Pass me my tinfoil hat*

[Soleran]

You know I was already dissappointed enough when I only got a single proc TOD, while I watched other heavily invested pure DPS classes do the same damage in half the time with nothing but autoattack. Can't wait to see my dissappointment when I only land for 250.

Right, that's something I think about as well when I'm tracking ki and using multiple earth strikes and finishers and some classes are just hitting something as simple as haste..........

I'll be wondering where our DPS falls now because its all been measured before on the forum for everyone to read.

[jadenkorr]

Actually my Dark Monk is just as affected as any other Dark Monk, only my Wis is high enough that the DC should be suitably high so as to land my ToD regularly, same as my Stunning Fist and finishing moves. If the mob has a Deathward spell going, I'll just SF it and go to town building up free ki. If your Stunning Fist, NOT your Stunning Blow, lands regularly, your Dark Monk shouldn't be gimped either. But it's been my experience that most of the Str/Con Dark builds use Stunning Blow since it's a Str based DC instead of Wis, which is their dump stat, so...

And as it happens, building a Monk who's not Dex/Wis based is kinda...well...you folks with those builds are finding out.

Hmm, so why would anyone build a cleric with max starting strength and 12 wisdom? Your DCs would be bad! Yet, we have battleclerics running around and smacking Harry, contributing both DPS and healing.

Hmm, so why would anyone build an arcane with more than 8 or 10 or 12 str? Thats a waste of stat points! It could go into having higher DCs or higher hp! Yet, we have builds such as Tukaw, and the Arcane Knight, which do the arcane melees justice.

Different people have different tastes, you might enjoy having a high dex/high wis monk, but others might not. The great thing about DDO is that it lets you redefine archetypes and much more freedom in character building.

Just as you enjoy the freedom of building high dex/high wis monks, I see no reason why you should detract from the enjoyment and freedom of others to build high str/con monks and say that high dex/high wis should be the way monks are built. Especially more so, when the monk class is one of the classes that offer more choices in character building, as opposed to say, barbarians, which mainly have 1 way to go, str/con.

[Nich]

This might sound harsh but...

So far you win most ignorant statement of the thread. Grats.

So, in your opinion ToD was balanced, and players stating that now their build is useless due to this change are great character builder?

[Sydril]

Anyone who didn't see this coming was living in delusion under a shiny tinfoil hat.

[Purgatory]

I SPENT MOUNTHS GAMING NEARLY EVERYDAY TO MAKE A DARK MONK THAT HAD HIGH STATS MAX STR AND GOOD DC AND NICE AC BY LEVELING UP A COMPLETIONIST.


AND THIS IS WHAT I GET? A GIMP?

Looks like i get to TR yet again!

BS!

[khaldan]

I SPENT MOUNTHS GAMING NEARLY EVERYDAY TO MAKE A DARK MONK THAT HAD HIGH STATS MAX STR AND GOOD DC AND NICE AC BY LEVELING UP A COMPLETIONIST.


AND THIS IS WHAT I GET? A GIMP?

Looks like i get to TR yet again!

Did not see this coming. What are you TRing into this time?

[J1NG]

I guess the nerf of Touch of Death means the Slayer Arrows are next...

J1NG

[SINIBYTE]

Anyone who didn't see this coming was living in delusion under a shiny tinfoil hat.

Considering there are classes putting out MUCH higher DPS - no, many of us did NOT see it coming. It's not like monks went from subpar to the best DPS in the game, they went from subpar to on par with other heavily invested DPS classes.

[KristovK]

Hmm, so why would anyone build a cleric with max starting strength and 12 wisdom? Your DCs would be bad! Yet, we have battleclerics running around and smacking Harry, contributing both DPS and healing.

Hmm, so why would anyone build an arcane with more than 8 or 10 or 12 str? Thats a waste of stat points! It could go into having higher DCs or higher hp! Yet, we have builds such as Tukaw, and the Arcane Knight, which do the arcane melees justice.

Different people have different tastes, you might enjoy having a high dex/high wis monk, but others might not. The great thing about DDO is that it lets you redefine archetypes and much more freedom in character building.

Just as you enjoy the freedom of building high dex/high wis monks, I see no reason why you should detract from the enjoyment and freedom of others to build high str/con monks and say that high dex/high wis should be the way monks are built. Especially more so, when the monk class is one of the classes that offer more choices in character building, as opposed to say, barbarians, which mainly have 1 way to go, str/con.

Battleclerics don't tend to do a lot offensive spells with saves, no DC required to heal yourself, buff yourself, and become an engine of physical destruction..works for arcane as well. Get the stat up high enough to be able to CAST the spells and that's all you need.

Monks, who have a number of special attacks based on wisdom score, can't really get away with that type of build without something enabling them to ignore their special attacks..Touch of Death. They don't have Stunning Fist, they have Stunning Blow, they don't use Eagle's Strike, they use Sunder and so on. Why..because they don't need to worry about the DCs because their REAL power is a no save attack that hits everything in the game regardless of what it is with no save at all and does it for more then anything short of multiple greensteels..only it does it all the time, not just on crits. THAT was obviously a broken ability, it would be changed in time, that was a given by myself and others who've played MMOs, it always happens without fail. So you don't build around something you KNOW will be changed, and for the negative, at some future point. Case in point, The Batman build, everyone knew it'd be changed, we'd been TOLD it would be changed...so they changed it and everyone who had a Batman raised nine shades of hell, and those were the POLITE ones. We weren't told about this change, that's true, but regardless, we knew it was coming eventually, why act so shocked and outraged? If you build to a known flaw, you'll always find yourself screwed.

[Junts]

Hmm, so why would anyone build a cleric with max starting strength and 12 wisdom? Your DCs would be bad! Yet, we have battleclerics running around and smacking Harry, contributing both DPS and healing.

Hmm, so why would anyone build an arcane with more than 8 or 10 or 12 str? Thats a waste of stat points! It could go into having higher DCs or higher hp! Yet, we have builds such as Tukaw, and the Arcane Knight, which do the arcane melees justice.

Different people have different tastes, you might enjoy having a high dex/high wis monk, but others might not. The great thing about DDO is that it lets you redefine archetypes and much more freedom in character building.

Just as you enjoy the freedom of building high dex/high wis monks, I see no reason why you should detract from the enjoyment and freedom of others to build high str/con monks and say that high dex/high wis should be the way monks are built. Especially more so, when the monk class is one of the classes that offer more choices in character building, as opposed to say, barbarians, which mainly have 1 way to go, str/con.

Ahh but here's the rub: like the battle cleric, when you specialize in a way that tanks part of your class's core functionality (in both cases, wis dcs), you tank some of your efectiveness. Those BC also use Bb and they have pretty bad dcs on it, but they still do it despite that. Similarly, if you really wanna make a 6 wis dps monk, you can, but you'll be way better off as a 13wis wf monk (like mine) and there might actually be a reason to be a 36 wis halfling monk.

[DevilButcher]

This looks like too hot a topic to touch but, everybody had a big grin on there face when UPDATE 5 almost double monks TOD damage. Now they go adjusting it again and everybody is so mad? Goes to show; easy come, easy go.

Is it not still powerful?

[Soleran]

This looks like too hot a topic to touch but, everybody had a big grin on there face when UPDATE 5 almost double monks TOD damage. Now they go adjusting it again and everybody is so mad? Goes to show; easy come, easy go.

Is it not still powerful?

It's a safe topic to touch still, one of the facets is adding a wisdom based DC to it if fail then half damage, great makes sense.

It's now negative energy, that's terrible.

[DevilButcher]

It's a safe topic to touch still, one of the facets is adding a wisdom based DC to it if fail then half damage, great makes sense.

It's now negative energy, that's terrible.

I admit the negative energy seems terrible, but it makes sense since it is a "death" attack.
This also opens it up to getting the 25% increse in damage if you do dark/dark/dark first.

[khaldan]

I admit the negative energy seems terrible, but it makes sense since it is a "death" attack.
This also opens it up to getting the 25% increse in damage if you do dark/dark/dark first.

That's an extra 40 ki and a debuff to maintain. Bit of a pain to keep up, and doesn't help all that much.

[TheIvanovFamily]

I admit the negative energy seems terrible, but it makes sense since it is a "death" attack.
This also opens it up to getting the 25% increse in damage if you do dark/dark/dark first.

Questionable effectiveness vs just using more Ki strikes of other flavors. Unless its a raid boss that will live longer, then the DC has a significant chance of just bouncing off.

[DevilButcher]

Well sorry for your TOD loss, but I'm pretty sure this won't "ruin" anybodys monk build or gimp them, just limmits what dark monks can take advantage with TOD. Going to just leave it there and not touch this more.

[Doxmaster]

DO0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0OOOOO0O0OO0 O0O0O0O0O0O0O00000000OOOOOOooooo0oMMM!!!!!