DDO creates a Permadeath Server..?

[DevilButcher]

I am just putting this out there.
If DDO made a Server world, which implanted built in permadeath rule that when you die and don’t get a revive spell, rather then going back to the tavern, you go back to the character creation screen. Would you sign for it and play on such a server? Would this be the hot spot for classic RPG-ers?

[Memnir]

With prominent Permadeath and Roleplay guilds on every server, it's really not necessary to make a server dedicated to a certain niche style of gameplay. The options exist, all you need to do is avail yourself of them and be disciplined enough to abide by their rules.

It's frankly not in Turbine's best interests to create a server for niche styles anyways. Those servers would be vastly underpopulated, as RP and PD are not wildly popular - even though they have very hardcore and dedicated fans. Also, Turbine does not officially endorse either optional rule-set... and any server they dedicate to any given rule-set would need to have Turbine define what exactly the rules would be. And I bet that there would be a lot of cries from folks who enjoy that style of play accusing Turbine of doing it wrong.

Besides, once you start fragmenting the player-base, where does it stop? It would then be all too easy to justify a "noob server" and a "Vets server" - or a "powergamer/zerg" server and a "casual & slow paced" server... and so on.

Best to keep the servers as appealing to as wide an audience as possible - and keep the optional playstyles to guilds on those servers.

So, no - I'd not join... but rather play on the more populated server with more options on how to play the game.

That's my opinion, anyways - your mileage may vary.

[Glenalth]

You don't need to have forced mechanics to do something people already do. There are groups on every server for Permadeath and other self-limiting types of play.

[DevilButcher]

I think Memnir put in words best, hard to go agaist what you said there.

[Darsith]

I came from a MMO that had a perma death mode built into the game. It was annoying. There was no role play reason for it, you were given better beginning stats and ore skill points. Don't think I would ever want to play on a server that was always PD.

[der_kluge]

I'd rather just see it as a toggleable option. Such a server would be vastly underpopulated otherwise.

[Impaqt]

Never gonna happen. Most permadeath guilds don't actully require you to delete a fallen character.... They leave the guild..... But often live on as a standard character.

The "toggle" already exists in every server. If you die, you de IDE whether or not to delete the toon. There are ver few games, and even fewer successful games that enforce any sort of permanent death penalty.

[kafrielveddicus]

Unfortunately in a game were it is over the internet there are ways to die that just dont make sense, ie. like lagging on a two foot drop making it a 200 foot drop, we have a rule in guild that lag deaths do count, but we tell our guildies to use common sense if it is some sort of bug.

[Chai]

I would sign up and try it out.

I would not hold my breath thinking this is ever going to happen though. The PD population compared to the rest of the games population is already a small ratio, and even among the PDers, there is not alot of 100% agreement on which ruleset to use. If the server came out and supported one ruleset, I see alot of the other PD guilds staying exactly where they are.

This kind of "different server different rules" game mechanic is better served in a game like NWN, which allows players to create their own world according to their own vision. Players can choose a world to game in based on their own vision of the game as well.

[Postumus]

Those servers would be vastly underpopulated, as RP and PD are not wildly popular - even though they have very hardcore and dedicated fans. .

I read that a lot in the forums, but what is the actual (estimated) breakdown of players?


I would think casual players make up the bulk of the pop, but I think RPs + PD should outnumber Power Grinders.


Has turbine ever posted any stats?

[Drakos]

I am just putting this out there.
If DDO made a Server world, which implanted built in permadeath rule that when you die and don’t get a revive spell, rather then going back to the tavern, you go back to the character creation screen. Would you sign for it and play on such a server? Would this be the hot spot for classic RPG-ers?

No, I wouldn't "sign up for it". I would concider myself to be a lassi RPG-er. I have played the game in every incarnation since 1st edition.

The reason is twofold, first this isn't a classic RPG. In fact exept for RP guilds and player-to-player interactions there is no roleplaying involved here.

The second reason is that there are waaaaay to many ways to that you have little to no control over.

[Memnir]

I read that a lot in the forums, but what is the actual (estimated) breakdown of players?


I would think casual players make up the bulk of the pop, but I think RPs + PD should outnumber Power Grinders.


Has turbine ever posted any stats?

Just based on my own experiences over the years... I think the opposite is true, with powergamers significantly outnumber the RPs and PDs combined.

As an aside: another reason why I think this is unlikely to happen is the Store. Most folks, powergamers included, will buy connivance items from the Store from time to time. I've noticed a lot of RP and PD guilds have rules against using the Store for much more then buying content packs. So, from a get-money perspective, an RP and PD server would be a money sink for Turbine.

[Renvar]

Many who PD play also play the "mainstream" way as well. With favor unlocks for races and classes and shared bank, ability to see whats going on with PD and non-PD friends it is easier to be on one server for both. Many people will mainstream quest with non-PD toons while waiting for their PD group to assemble. To be on separate servers, you lose some of this easy ability to transition and stay involved socially with both types of play.

[Robai]

Why separate Permadeath server?

Instead, I would like it this way:
- when you go to any quest you can choose not only quest level (Normal, Hard, Elite), but also are able check an option for Permanent death mode
- but Permanent death mode should give some bonus, for example, +25% XP for Normal, +50% XP for Hard and +100% XP for Elite
- and Permanent death mode should be picked only once per quest level (i.e. 3 times per each quest).
- and repeating quest penalty should apply as it is now (i.e. no change here, including first time completion bonus, which should apply only once, i.e. only 3 times per each quest)
- also no change for a penalty of too high level

Example:
1) you do quest on Normal (+25% XP for first time completion)
2) you think it was easy so you do Normal in Permadeath mode (+25% XP)
3) you do Hard + Permadeath (+25% XP for first time completion and +50% XP for Permadeath)
4) you do Elite + Permadeath (+50% XP for first time completion and +100% XP for Permadeath)
4') or you die and see character creation window

And there should be a very expensive (price should depend on level) account option of resurrecting a dead character (that's why Turbine might be interested in this).

Edit:
Another example:
1) you do a quest with a group
2) if everything is OK you repeat that quest in Permadeath mode with the same team

[madmaxhunter]

Turbine is in this for the money, as they should be, it is a business. Think how many points are spent on cakes. I've seen a zerging newb eat 3 or 4 in one encounter.

I do have a question about PD though. Once a group has reached a level for the cleric/fvs to have rez. is PD over? I ask because PD is a way for gamers to emulate the pnp days. You die, you dead. Go sit on the couch and watch Doctor Who, Monty Python or Benny Hill reruns on PBS.

In pnp once the medic gets rez, everyone is relieved. Just wondering the mechanics/strictness of PD.

Lighthardtt Tuisian
20/Drow/fvs
20/Human/fighter
5/Dwarf/Barbarian
Sarlona

[Postumus]

Just based on my own experiences over the years... I think the opposite is true, with powergamers significantly outnumber the RPs and PDs combined.

As an aside: another reason why I think this is unlikely to happen is the Store. Most folks, powergamers included, will buy connivance items from the Store from time to time. I've noticed a lot of RP and PD guilds have rules against using the Store for much more then buying content packs. So, from a get-money perspective, an RP and PD server would be a money sink for Turbine.

I agree that it would run counter to Turbine's revenue model.


I do think you could satisfy (somewhat) both Turbine and players who like the thrill of participating in something where death has more meaning: Tourneys.


Turbine could sell 'tickets' to tourneys which could be anything ranging from straight PvP, capture the flag, and contests of skill, to scavenger hunts and wide open races across an adventure area.

Prizes could be anything players find worthwhile: turbine points, discounts, or free items/content.


It would be easy to 'level' the playing field in the scavenger hunts & race scenarios by restricting equipment, etc.



What would be really great would be PnP style tournaments where everyone pays the entry fee to go through a quest/quest chain with a pre-rolled character. The surviving player(s) with the most XPs/tournament points at the end would be the overall winner.
Prizes vary.

[Memnir]

Turbine could sell 'tickets' to tourneys which could be anything ranging from straight PvP, capture the flag, and contests of skill, to scavenger hunts and wide open races across an adventure area.

Again, an idea that would be better played out on the servers we have now, with no need for any special ruleset-specific server. They'd sell a lot more tickets for an event like this to everyone, and not just RP and PD aficionados. And since Turbine enjoys their profits... they'd likely not want to limit themselves when it comes to making money. And sadly, the largest profit margins are to be had by appealing to the widest number of consumers.


The last idea in your post would be unwieldy to do as any kind of official event, but very similar contests have been held on various servers and run by the players. Tuffman's various events on Thelanis springs to mind first - but there have been others.

[Gandalfs_Ghost]

I do have a question about PD though. Once a group has reached a level for the cleric/fvs to have rez. is PD over? I ask because PD is a way for gamers to emulate the pnp days. You die, you dead. Go sit on the couch and watch Doctor Who, Monty Python or Benny Hill reruns on PBS.

In pnp once the medic gets rez, everyone is relieved. Just wondering the mechanics/strictness of PD.

I dont recall pnp working like that but its been a while. Just because there may not be a rezzer in a pnp party does not mean that once someone dies that player goes to watch tv. What a lousy dm that would be. Tho I did have a party follow each other thru that one black portal in Tomb of Horrors.... yeah they got to go watch tv.... and yeah by they I mean me and the rest of the party...

In PD having a rezzer helps sure but it does not open the door to playing like a bunch of loons with no fear of death. Party wipes are to be avoided at all costs, do or die fights are especially scary, and there are places where you can die unrecoverably.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Turbine is in this for the money, as they should be, it is a business. Think how many points are spent on cakes. I've seen a zerging newb eat 3 or 4 in one encounter.

I do have a question about PD though. Once a group has reached a level for the cleric/fvs to have rez. is PD over? I ask because PD is a way for gamers to emulate the pnp days. You die, you dead. Go sit on the couch and watch Doctor Who, Monty Python or Benny Hill reruns on PBS.

In pnp once the medic gets rez, everyone is relieved. Just wondering the mechanics/strictness of PD.

Lighthardtt Tuisian
20/Drow/fvs
20/Human/fighter
5/Dwarf/Barbarian
Sarlona

To address res cakes: no major PD guild allows store-bought res cakes, period.

PD is far from over just cause a rezzer is in the party. Its not like we park the cleric at the door with a pager to call for a rez if something goes wrong.

Also somebody mentioned a DDO Store account option, I think that you would find that the majority of people currently playing PD would disallow that as well. Though granted it might be a saftey net that convinces new players to try PD.

Somebody else mentioned turbine messing it up...dude PD'ers can't even agree among all 12 of us (jk there is way more but you get my point) what the best rule set is. Would the server have an AH? That alone would cause tons of disagreement among PD alone, now try and satisfy the RP community too. I would try it, but I do not think it would be successful.

To the OP: Do you play PD, and if so what guild?

[Deathseeker]

If there were a PD server, I would 100% absolutely roll a toon up on it. I'd even pay a few bucks for the option.

I dont really agree with the logic that you can do it on a voluntary basis so the server isnt needed. I think that there are a lot of people out there (like me) that dont really want to have to figure out which guild to try, be limited to pugging with just that guild, wonder if others are following the rules, etc. Im AM NOT in any way being negative toward those that do, more power to em.

My point is that there may be a few, or many, out there that would try out the playstyle if it were more a formalized part of the game.

Look at it the other way...if a store option were introduced to make your toon 100% invulnerable to death, would everyone be accepting of that new addition and say "oh, if you dont like it, dont use it"? No way...there would be a firestorm of protest that it would ruin the game. There's a huge difference between something being possible on a voluntary, honor basis and something being part of the game.

Just because PD isnt a big population now doesnt mean a server wouldnt be populated. Its quite possibly the opposite...the PD playstyle isnt widespread now BECAUSE there isnt a formal game option (or server) to manage it.