update 7: half-elf Dilettante

[psteen1]

Anyone care to guess what the dilettante features are for each class? I'm curious if 4th edition players have any ideas since this is a 4th edition concept.

So far we know:
Cleric: gain the ability to use a level 1 cleric wand.

And I am guessing that:
Fighter: use martial weapons.

Any ideas for the other classes?

[Rav'n]

Rogue=Evasion








....if only..... /sigh.....
(Can you say... game breaking? )

[William_the_Bat]

Fighter martial weapons use came up at PAX, so I'm pretty sure that one is correct.

As for the others, who knows?

Ranger bow strength would be pretty sweet.. and a half-elf would probably qualify for elven arcane archer.

[The_Cataclysm]

1d6 sneak attack for rogues I would guess.

Wizards will probably be the same as clerics.

Barbarian should be rage

[Maegin]

Rogue=Evasion








....if only..... /sigh.....
(Can you say... game breaking? )

God forbid they put in something like this, let alone Ring(s) of Evasion.

/vomit

:P

[dkyle]

Anyone care to guess what the dilettante features are for each class? I'm curious if 4th edition players have any ideas since this is a 4th edition concept.

The 4th Ed rules aren't much of a guide here. 4E half-elves gain another class's At-Will power as an Encounter power. For example, a half-elf could pick up Magic Missile (a Wizard At-Will spell), but could only use it once per encounter.

I don't see an easy conversion of that to 3.5 rules. The Cleric one already bears no resemblance to 4E. In fact, 4E clerics don't even use wands!

Rogue=Evasion

I could see maybe a 20 second activated ability with, say, a 2 minute cooldown. More likely, it'll be sneak attack. 1d6 or even 2d6 wouldn't step on Halflings' toes.

[markhoge]

Just so everyone knows, Dilettante is not a done deal for Update 7.
The devs said that Half Elves will get it eventually, but they are not sure about Update 7.

EDIT: According to Eladrin below in this thread, looks like that has changed! Seems they wull make it into Update 7!

[psteen1]

my guess:

Bards: 1 use/per day of inspire courage.


my fear:
that by level 8 or 9, these feats will basically be worthless. I really hope there is even more to a half-elf than what I have seen, because I want to do a half-elf bard but so far don't see any real advantage over a human.

[Eladrin]

My current plan is as follows (subject to change, etc.):

Half-Elves will receive their choice of a Dilettante feat as a bonus feat at first level. These feats give a little taste of another class' iconic abilities without being a true multiclass. They intentionally do not provide many benefits if you take actual levels of that class, since they generally overlap with low level class abilities. It is possible that in the future we'll tie enhancement lines to many of them, giving access to related class enhancements at a slower progression than the original class gets them.

We have things like:

Half-Elven Dilettante: Cleric
Prereqs: Half-Elf, 13 Wisdom
Benefit: You have learned much by watching clerics perform their arts. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one cleric, and for item use purposes you count as a level one cleric in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual cleric levels.

...or things like...

Half-Elven Dilettante: Paladin
Prereqs: Half-Elf, 13 Charisma
Benefit: You have spent enough time among holy warriors that you know their chants by heart. You can add up to 2 points of your Charisma bonus to all saves. This bonus does not stack with the Divine Grace ability. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one paladin, and for item use purposes you count as a level one paladin in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual paladin levels.

My half-elven sorcerer is totally going to swing Tesyus around and hurt himself.

[dkyle]

Thanks for the info!

As for the feats themselves, how many useful wands are there that a level of cleric would allow use of, that a level of Pali won't? Seems to me that the cleric one should have something else to offer to be balanced with the Pali one.

[psteen1]

Oh good. Thanks Eladrin. I was hoping it would be a bonus feat, and not require a normal feat slot, because the advantages of the dilettante feats didn't seem to be better than just picking a normal feat, and I really need every normal feat possible to do the build I am dreaming of.

If you don't have the dilettante feats available upon update 7 launch, will higher level half-elves be able to add them in upon future updates without a resurrection?

[Eladrin]

As for the feats themselves, how many useful wands are there that a level of cleric would allow use of, that a level of Pali won't? Seems to me that the cleric one should have something else to offer to be balanced with the Pali one.

The Cleric Dilettante can use a Raise Dead scroll with a caster level check, the Paladin can't.

If you don't have the dilettante feats available upon update 7 launch, will higher level half-elves be able to add them in upon future updates without a resurrection?

I expect they'll be in U7. (Barring catastrophe. We always need to watch out for catastrophe.)

[dkyle]

The Cleric Dilettante can use a Raise Dead scroll with a caster level check, the Paladin can't.

Ah yes, I always forget caster level checks for items exists.

If the ddowiki entry on scrolls is correct, that means a +2 check vs an 18 DC, or 25% chance of success. Kind of an expensive way to raise someone, but it's not bad.

[The_Cataclysm]

I'm glad I decide to hold off on TRing my rogue until update 7 hit. Half-Elves are sounding better and better. I might just have to choose half-elf. Now if only only we could get even more info on the dilettante feats.

[t0r012]

Half-Elven Dilettante: Paladin
Prereqs: Half-Elf, 13 Charisma
Benefit: You have spent enough time among holy warriors that you know their chants by heart. You can add up to 2 points of your Charisma bonus to all saves. This bonus does not stack with the Divine Grace ability. You are able to use wands and scrolls as if you were a level one paladin, and for item use purposes you count as a level one paladin in addition to any other classes you possess. This feat is not recommended for characters with actual paladin levels.

that is stronger than I expected.

My half-elven sorcerer is totally going to swing Tesyus around and hurt himself

WIN!

[josejgcosta]

Well honestly I would like half-elf would make nices sorceres, therefore I hope half-elfs get a +1extra feat like humans [because sorceres are really feat starving] and +2char (think tht makes sense they get +2char and no -2const, I don't care if they even get -2dext).

BTW I love my sorcerer but IMO wizards have really much more advantages/benefits, for example,and WF not getting -2int and self healing is a huge advantage

[dkyle]

get a +1extra feat like humans [because sorceres are really feat starving]

I highly doubt they will. Why would anyone play Humans if they did? That feat and their enhancement lines are the only thing humans have going for them. Half-elves will already get both Human and Elven ehancements.

and +2char (think tht makes sense they get +2char and no -2const, I don't care if they even get -2dext).

I don't think they will get any stat bonuses or penalties. Why would they get -2 DEX? They will, however, get the Human stat enhancements, so you'll be able to get +1 CHA from those.

[The_Cataclysm]

Well honestly I would like half-elf would make nices sorceres, therefore I hope half-elfs get a +1extra feat like humans [because sorceres are really feat starving] and +2char (think tht makes sense they get +2char and no -2const, I don't care if they even get -2dext).

BTW I love my sorcerer but IMO wizards have really much more advantages/benefits, for example,and WF not getting -2int and self healing is a huge advantage

They shouldn't be getting a bonus feat (besides the Dilettante one) and they will be like humans in so far as having no initial bonus/penalty to stats.

[Angelus_dead]

Half-Elves will receive their choice of a Dilettante feat as a bonus feat at first level.

Unimportant, but it could make a bit for sense for it to come at character level 2 or 3, because it's weird that a level 1 Half-Elf Fighter is adding charisma to saves when a level 1 Drow Paladin can't do that yet.

[dlsidhe]

Unimportant, but it could make a bit for sense for it to come at character level 2 or 3, because it's weird that a level 1 Half-Elf Fighter is adding charisma to saves when a level 1 Drow Paladin can't do that yet.

<unlurk>

I think the limit on the save bonus from charisma is the difference; for a half-elf fighter to take full advantage of the paladin dilettante feat at level 1, they'd have to sacrifice 6 build points for the +2 bonus from CHA and never see the bonus increase. The average Drow paladin at level 2 would be gaining +3 save bonus from charisma with the possibility for increase from class enhancements and charisma items, and would not have had to adjust from an optimized build. For a half-elf sorcerer, however, picking up a +2 to saves AND free no-fail 1st level divine wands without making any sacrifices in stat point distribution might well be worth it.

Like was mentioned in another Update 7 thread, half-elves have serious benefits for solo players (like me). With this info about the dilettante feats, I'm already planning a paladin dilettante sorcerer and a cleric dilettante rogue...self-healing from wands without UMD checks = a huge money saver.

</unlurk>

</unlurk>