Figther/ monk with longsword, need advice

[Choopak]

Lookig to build a fig12/ monk8, elf, using 2 longsword... any advice or build ideas?

[Therigar]

Reroll.

[Ystradmynach]

Reroll.

Just curious, but I don't really play the monk class, can you explain what is so terrible about this multiclass? I would think that with the Kensai ki bonus and Whirling Steel Strike which allows you to stay centered with longswords, there would be some synergy here. Even I know you can get evasion and ninja spy incorporeal and sneak attack damage just off the top of my head. It certainly seems viable even if it doesn't maximize dps, but I may be missing something.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Just curious, but I don't really play the monk class, can you explain what is so terrible about this multiclass? I would think that with the Kensai ki bonus and Whirling Steel Strike which allows you to stay centered with longswords, there would be some synergy here. Even I know you can get evasion and ninja spy incorporeal and sneak attack damage just off the top of my head. It certainly seems viable even if it doesn't maximize dps, but I may be missing something.

1 - Longswords suck
2 - If you want to use Ki abilities on your Fighter, stick with handwraps, as the +12% attackspeed adds up to a lot more DPS than Longswords
3 - Longswords really suck
4 - You're giving up your +10% doublestrike capstone
5 - I can think of no weapon worse martial weapon

[DrNuegebauer]

If they added the 12% attack speed to the longswords - then go for it!

But it just isn't worth it...

If you're going the 12/8 route, use fists. All the benefits you mentioned except saves 2 feats and does more damage.

[voodoogroves]

That much monk and your fists will be far outclassing your longswords.

If you're an elf and pushing all of the longsword enhancements I'd still not suggest more than 2 levels of monk in a build like that.

If you're doing one of the healing amp builds and want 8 for the additional healing amp and are crafting heal-boosting longswords, go nuts. Monk 7 or 8 sounds good there, along with 12 or so Paladin.

If you're looking for more core DPS, consider the following instead:

Rogue 1 / Monk 1 / Ranger 18 (Tempest 3)
Monk 2 / Fighter 18 (Kensai 3)

Once you get Monk over 4 or so there's no way a longsword with the elf enhancements will keep up damage-wise. Best to focus your class abilities elsewhere...

[Frelin]

I'm running an elven 12/8 Ftr/Mnk build right now, TR using longswords and loving the hell out of it. I do a lot more damage with my longswords than I do with HW, and the base dmg is comparable to a khopesh user (except when they crit of course). The levels of light monk make self healing a breeze and provide useful buffs to the party.

Also, I find the extra 6 lvls of fighter dont bring that much extra to the build over the benefits you get from at least 3 monk.

So what if you can't DPS at the level that an uberist of uber Barbarian can, the build brings other things to the party, plus useful DPS.

[richieelias27]

Handwraps get full str bonus to offhand attacks and an attack speed bonus. Even 1 level of monk would be better than longswords. Only benefit I see is ability to have 2 different weps at once and on-crit effects such as smiting and banishing. But for those situational uses, just get ninja spy and use short swords (unless you're going light of course).

[Valakai]

Might I suggest you look up the Solar Phoenix build. A monk / paladin with great self healing through maximising healing amplifications. Not to say fighter monk would not be good but personally just see more synergy with Monkadin.

Longswords in that build pull ahead of handwraps because your smites+divine sacrifice favor weapons with better crit range.

[elujin]

i never got the longsword fighter/monk splash i how ever have human pally / monk 13/7 focusing on healing amp and dubblestrikes i think upto lvl 7 (8) monk levels centerd longswords pull ahead of handwarps . longswords have a good crit range for a monk weapon

[AylinIsAwesome]

If you're doing one of the healing amp builds and want 8 for the additional healing amp and are crafting heal-boosting longswords, go nuts. Monk 7 or 8 sounds good there, along with 12 or so Paladin

I can think of a better alternative to using Longswords.

[Alabore]

If you're looking for more core DPS, consider the following instead:
Rogue 1 / Monk 1 / Ranger 18 (Tempest 3)
Monk 2 / Fighter 18 (Kensai 3)

To the OP: the first one is called an Exploiter ranger.
Personally, I like the flexibility and skill synergy ranger brings to rogue.

Further thoughts: few vets would suggest a deep dip - rogue1 is enough, rogue 2 if you haven't bought monk yet, or if you really can't stand playing a bathrobe battler.
And even then, Ftr or Brb usually bring more to the equation.

It all depends if you're aiming for a specific flavour - such as an elven bladesinger fighting with swords - or if you're trying to build around a newer, potentially advantageous mechanic.
If you're going for specific flavour, maybe consider tweaking your plans so you don't build something that breaks after a certain level.
If you're trying to exploit a mechanic, I would be inclined to say min-maxers already tried it; if you're not seeing a build, it's often because they found something else worked better for them.
Not to say nerfs and tweaks aren't going to change things...

Once you get Monk over 4 or so there's no way a longsword with the elf enhancements will keep up damage-wise. Best to focus your class abilities elsewhere...

Further info: -> http://ddowiki.com/page/Monk

Monk unarmed attack scales with class level.
I can't find the dps table I used to refer to, but if DDO attack modifiers/speed stay the same for both unarmed and armed strikes, considering Ki weaponry, a monk's fists actually become better than a sword, 1d10 vs 1d8, after monk 8.
With a monk past life feat that happens even earlier.

In specific scenarios, higher crit range with beaters/one-shotters vs viability of special strikes might suggest different tactics.
I still can't understand the new off-hand proc and double strike mechanics - I am still trying to wish them out of DDO...

[DrNuegebauer]

but if DDO attack modifiers/speed stay the same for both unarmed and armed strikes, considering Ki weaponry, a monk's fists actually become better than a sword, 1d10 vs 1d8, after monk 8.

No disrespect intended here - but the unarmed attack speed from a level 1 monk (flurry of blows) is 12% quicker than and other weapon type.

Add in the 'full strength bonus to offhand' and it's over.

To beat the 1d10 damage from a G/S longsword, a level one monk splash (1d6) would need to have 16 strength or more...

Once you get to level 8 and the BASE damage is equal, it's a no contest. Flurry of blows and full str bonus to offhand = major advantage - even if giving up the critical range.

And don't forget the rings that give you the add-on damage effects.

[Alabore]

No disrespect intended here - but the unarmed attack speed from a level 1 monk (flurry of blows) is 12% quicker than and other weapon type.

That's the underlying issue: if flurry of blows is being applied to unarmed only, that's no contest.
If flurry is being applied to ki weaponry as well - should be, pnp-wise, IIRC - things could be different.



...


EDIT:

Of course when you start factoring GS in, you're considering beyond char lvl 8 anyway.

[Robi3.0]

God forbid anyone do something cause they simply want to. No, it must be UBER11!!!!11!!11!! so says the forums.

Anyways here is a WSS fighter12/monk8 build that I am leveling. I
like it a lot and when compared to my kensei fighter she has way more survivability. Would she be "better" if she didn't use long swords? I couldn't care less.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.30
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 8 Monk) 
Hit Points: 378
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    18
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    12
Bluff                -1                     1
Concentration         6                    29
Diplomacy            -1                     3
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     1
Heal                  2                     4
Hide                  3                     7
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  7                    24
Listen                2                     6
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                  2                     6
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Negotiator
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Longsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

anyhow here is the build.

[Tumarek]

I'm just working on a Monk 7, Ranger 6, Fighter 7 (tempest I, Kensai I) Elf with longswords. With Elf enhancements, Kensai and favored enemy and tempest attack speeed DPS is pretty good and AC can get up to the 70's without too much work.

With ranger spells, monk stances, light finishers and healing curse she is almoust like a Bard

[Valindria]

Valtieri (see sig) is 15/3 Paladin Monk with WSS. It's a healing amp build. I have had a lot of fun with it so far. Yes the damage is bad compared to other builds but I still really enjoy it. I know it might not be exactly what you want but it's another WSS style build.

[Kriogen]

Maybe something like this?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 356
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         10                    12
Wisdom               12                    16
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    11
Bluff                -1                     2
Concentration         4                    27
Diplomacy            -1                     2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     2
Heal                  1                     3
Hide                  7                     9
Intimidate           -1                     2
Jump                  7                    12
Listen                1                     5
Move Silently         7                     9
Open Lock             7                     9
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     3
Spot                  1                     5
Swim                  3                     8
Tumble                7                     9
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Iron Will


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Longsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

Speced for slash and blunt. Light side for KI based buffs, full UMD for scrolls and wands and race/align restricted items.

[Frelin]

God forbid anyone do something cause they simply want to. No, it must be UBER11!!!!11!!11!! so says the forums.

Here here...

I'm running the 12/8 Ftr/Mnk WSS build atm and he is very survivable. Currently sitting at 36 Str unbuffed/unraged/un-power attacked/etc. and should be able to hit 40 Str standing once he gets a ToD ring . I use a pair of Min II longswords and deal pretty decent dmg with those. Currently I do a lot more damage with those than I do with my HWs. Maybe once I hit 18, finally get some ToD rings and enough trophies to but elemental damage on them that'll change, but until then, this has not been the case. Haven't hit 18 yet, so there's still more improvement to come.

Stunning blow is awesome, and rarely misses (DC 37 unbuffed with +10 stunning wraps, will be nearly 40 once I reach 20). You wont have a high enough DC to use Stunning Fist reliably, but with the updates to Shintao on the way, they may change tier I to be something useful to make Stunning Fist worth taking, even if you just use it to stun casters and the like while waiting for your Stunning Blow cool down.

May I also recommend waiting til update 7 to see what half-elf is like. From what I've seen so far bandied around the forums it would suit 12/8 Ftr/Mnk WSS build really well. Even considering TRing my build again to use half-elf instead of elf but keep the exact same build if it worthwhile.

I say give it a try, especially if you do a a bit of soloing, because the build is very survivable and quite fun. The splash of 1 rogue makes it even more versatile, but not really til later levels when you can get enough UMD to actually make it worthwhile.

[Alabore]

God forbid anyone do something cause they simply want to.

Eh.
I guess I am too thin skinned for fun.
One guy dropped a random remark about gimped rogues, and I removed mine from my own signature.

...

Sometimes real life is simpler.