Casual flagging for Raids

[Stormslinger]

IMHO you should not be able to flag for a high end raid on casual.

If your toon can't make it through on normal how can you justify inflicting your broken toon on 11 other people to carry you through.

[PopeJual]

I agree in principal, but I don't think it would make a significant difference since those folks who try to flag on Casual would eventually just pike their way through with a PUG on Normal.

[Rav'n]

More often than not, Casual/Norm (for Pre-Raids) Flagging is because you've done the quests over and over. It's about getting thru the flagging process as efficiently as possible.

[phalaeo]

After seeing the thread title, I was all ready to roar in here and rant about how people really shouldn't be able to flag on casual- glad that's not what you were suggesting.

I'm in total agreement. I know that Turbine has lowered required drops for flagging when run on Casual, but I don't think this is good enough. If you can't run a raid on Casual, you shouldn't be able to flag on Casual.... period.

For people who are having difficulty flagging, you may just need to wait a level or two for your character to get more powerful and *then* run it on normal if you can't make it at level.

[phalaeo]

More often than not, Casual/Norm (for Pre-Raids) Flagging is because you've done the quests over and over. It's about getting thru the flagging process as efficiently as possible.

Norm is fine- I'd even be ok with running on Casual for pre-raids if you've already completed it on Norm. I just don't think that people should be allowed to breeze through on Casual alone and then be able to raid... it doesn't prepare the players who are flagging for a raid environment.

[Angelus_dead]

If your toon can't make it through on normal how can you justify inflicting your broken toon on 11 other people to carry you through.

The truth is, it's easy to justify:
Adding a helpless player who does nothing to contribute to victory will still give the raid group more opportunities to gain their desired loot from the end chest. It's called playing a "lootbot".

I wish the loot mechanics didn't reward players for padding out the group to full size, but that's how it works.

[Ybbald]

The truth is, it's easy to justify:
Adding a helpless player who does nothing to contribute to victory will still give the raid group more opportunities to gain their desired loot from the end chest. It's called playing a "lootbot".

I wish the loot mechanics didn't reward players for padding out the group to full size, but that's how it works.

Perhaps a group of 1-4 players will drop 1 named item.
A group of 5-8 will drop 2 and 9-12 will drop 3. Then running with 9 means a higher item to person ratio meaning you're more likely to get the item you need, while running with 12 means an easier time completing but less chance of getting an item.

That's just a general idea, wizards soloing Reaver's Fate shouldn't have a guaranteed item drop

[redoubt]

Perhaps a group of 1-4 players will drop 1 named item.
A group of 5-8 will drop 2 and 9-12 will drop 3. Then running with 9 means a higher item to person ratio meaning you're more likely to get the item you need, while running with 12 means an easier time completing but less chance of getting an item.

That's just a general idea, wizards soloing Reaver's Fate shouldn't have a guaranteed item drop

lol... people used to solo raids and get a guaranteed two drops.

In fact all the raids used to always have two raid loot drops. But that was a long time ago...

[MrWizard]

why not only allow flagging every time on elite...lol


casual has some drop rate minuses for some flags.

Normal can scale too, so 1 person is still getting an easier pass.


demon queen 1, casual, why do it any other way to get to the raid...thank you devs.

we used to have to run all 4 quests to flag for dragon...ugh.


a high level casual is still hard, just not as hard as norm with the same size group. Which is harder though, a casual 6 man run or a solo normal run?

the toon will still be bad or good whether they did it on cas or elite...they will find their way to your group...

[Kza]

IMHO you should not be able to flag for a high end raid on casual.

If your toon can't make it through on normal how can you justify inflicting your broken toon on 11 other people to carry you through.

Life to short to be upset bout a fella who had some probs with flagging. if you think n is ok and then run raid on elite, thats bigger dif then do flags on c and raid on n. Its ok as it is.

Its not that simple, do bastion for example solo on c as a bard was for me way harder than do it on e on my soul, and i dont think any of em are "broken".

[Aranticus]

Perhaps a group of 1-4 players will drop 1 named item.
A group of 5-8 will drop 2 and 9-12 will drop 3. Then running with 9 means a higher item to person ratio meaning you're more likely to get the item you need, while running with 12 means an easier time completing but less chance of getting an item.

That's just a general idea, wizards soloing Reaver's Fate shouldn't have a guaranteed item drop

why not? did the wiz do less than an entire raid group?

[grodon9999]

why not? did the wiz do less than an entire raid group?

Agreed, if you can solo raid you should get loot for it.

[Therilith]

I agree.

[Nite_Prowler]

IMHO you should not be able to flag for a high end raid on casual.

If your toon can't make it through on normal how can you justify inflicting your broken toon on 11 other people to carry you through.

Not everyone who does a quest on casual has a 'broken toon'
sometimes its hard to get a party together (or I just don't feel like dealing w/a PUG)
that's what casual level is for, those times when you just wanna get a quest out of the way

/not signed

[moops]

I agree.

And while its true that they might just find a Normal Pug group that will drag their Arse thru the quest. . .The group will notice the suck much better than they would on Casual and then word would spread through many user chats...And Im not talking about a no top gear alt, I'm talking about someone who is clearly not a team player and dies 7 times in Genesis on Normal half way thru the quest.

I take less than stellar people and builds into TOD all the time, 1-4 broken alts won't hurt--but if they can't listen I can't work with them.. . .As someone who solos Amarth quests, I can tell you that most of the flag quests are much harder to run as a group. Ive never solod or run an Amrath quest on casual, so I don't know the difficulty, but it would seem to me that requiring people to do the quest one time on normal, might help people be better team players and communicate with others better.

[Samadhi]

While I agree with your end goal (keeping gimps out of raids), as Jual said, they are just going to pike their way through on normal with a PUG anyhow. Personally, for someone that solos as much as myself, I have come to like the fact I can solo my way through a flagging quest (that I have run hundreds of times anyhow) even on the most solo-unfriendly build instead of needing to harass a guildie for help.

[Samadhi]

I wish the loot mechanics didn't reward players for padding out the group to full size, but that's how it works.

/always agreed on this point.

[ColinQ]

I agree.

And while its true that they might just find a Normal Pug group that will drag their Arse thru the quest. . .The group will notice the suck much better than they would on Casual and then word would spread through many user chats...And Im not talking about a no top gear alt, I'm talking about someone who is clearly not a team player and dies 7 times in Genesis on Normal half way thru the quest.

I take less than stellar people and builds into TOD all the time, 1-4 broken alts won't hurt--but if they can't listen I can't work with them.. . .As someone who solos Amarth quests, I can tell you that most of the flag quests are much harder to run as a group. Ive never solod or run an Amrath quest on casual, so I don't know the difficulty, but it would seem to me that requiring people to do the quest one time on normal, might help people be better team players and communicate with others better.

I think shroud had a very elegant solution to this

you may have flagged on casual and gotten the pie piece
But you cant use the crafting alter till you get enough favor
Granted, they can do HoX/VOD (or the 3x F2P or the 2 amrath quest) for the fav

They just need to add something like:
you can only find the tower cave entrance after finding a tracking device which is only available at 25 Yogo Fav (and remove the running to the tower for the first time)

[Jay203]

i vote for perma-flagged if you have elite favor for the quests

[yawumpus]

that you don't want to run the vale/shroud flagging quests on casual? Running those quests on casual means that the required items don't always drop. I don't know how many more times you have to run it, but it isn't recommended.

I'd hate to have to run DQ (pre-raid) at a high level every time. Actually, I hate having to re-flag for anything at all. That raid winds up being a "wait forever for the other group to flag" borefest.