Divine Sacrafice Toggle

[psymun]

I mentioned this before, but I'd just like to see what the interest is in this...

Why not make Divine Sacrafice a toggle instead of a spam? Similar to the Barbarian death frenzy?

Paladins are being out-damaged by all other melee classes no matter what we do. This would give us that little bit of extra damage...

Don't get me wrong, this would SUCK at lower levels when we are low on HP totals, but it would come in handy to make Paladins more DPS friendly.

[Shishizaru]

Divine Sacrifice requires 1 SP, too. Not sure if that would make coding it as a toggle function wonky. And aren't KoTC Paladin's some of the highest DPS against Evil Outsiders?

[lord_of_rage]

I mentioned this before, but I'd just like to see what the interest is in this...

Why not make Divine Sacrafice a toggle instead of a spam? Similar to the Barbarian death frenzy?

Paladins are being out-damaged by all other melee classes no matter what we do. This would give us that little bit of extra damage...

Don't get me wrong, this would SUCK at lower levels when we are low on HP totals, but it would come in handy to make Paladins more DPS friendly.

I really dont see an issue with dps on my human kotc at all. He regularly pulls aggro and is constistanly high dps on outsiders. And he is still missing a+4 tome for dm4, and lo's ring for an additional3d6. I find ds as a clickie works fine. If you changed it to a toggle it could be very overpowered. Granted this is coming from you a person who at one time wasnt using ds, didnt have power attack, wasnt using divine might, and wasnt making room for high lvls of exalted smite. I find your dps complaint suspect.

[psymun]

Lord of Rage

My apologies for being NEW to the game and not knowing that I needed those things in the first place. It's really funny how people would rather attack a poster than help.

Now that I DO have DM, DS, PA, and Exalted Smite, I'm noticing that I do indeed do much better DPS.

That being said, my KoC also pulls aggro off of others when fighting outsiders... As a matter of fact, my Defender of Siberys pulls off of other people consistently as well. Pulling aggro wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was simply a "wouldn't it be nice" post.

My apologies for suggesting an added bonus that would help all Paladins.

That being said, the +1 to critical multipliers would indeed make this particular ability overpowered. However, I don't think it would be any more overpowered than the Barbarian Death Frenzy, or the Dark Path Monk's ability to deal 500 points of damage at will with touch of death.

[lord_of_rage]

Lord of Rage

My apologies for being NEW to the game and not knowing that I needed those things in the first place. It's really funny how people would rather attack a poster than help.

Now that I DO have DM, DS, PA, and Exalted Smite, I'm noticing that I do indeed do much better DPS.

That being said, my KoC also pulls aggro off of others when fighting outsiders... As a matter of fact, my Defender of Siberys pulls off of other people consistently as well. Pulling aggro wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was simply a "wouldn't it be nice" post.

My apologies for suggesting an added bonus that would help all Paladins.

That being said, the +1 to critical multipliers would indeed make this particular ability overpowered. However, I don't think it would be any more overpowered than the Barbarian Death Frenzy, or the Dark Path Monk's ability to deal 500 points of damage at will with touch of death.

If I recall correctly you had the I am right and everyone else is wrong thing going. You didnt want the advice. That neg rep was one you earned.

The reason ds would be overpowered is you get 9d6 light dmg per strike with ds3 and a +1 to your multiplier. Nothing in the game is immune to light damage. To have this on a frenzy like clickie would be insane. 1 min bursts of ds. Then paladins would be the dps flavor of the month. Its just crazy.

[shadow_419]

I don't mind the cooldown since it's only 3s. Gives me time to sneak an exalted smite in there.

[psymun]

Lord of Rage...

My not wanting advice had nothing to do with using the abilities, it had more to do with people telling me that my character was SO wrong because I don't dump wisdom.

As for Death Frenzy vs. Divine Sacrifice (The point of this thread):

Death Frenzy:
+4 to Strength (+2 damage per hit, before multipliers)
+1 To your Critical Multiplier
4d6 Damage (Vicious so nothing is resistant to it)
Costs 20 HP to enter and 1d3/swing...

Divine Sacrifice (What I'm proposing):
+1 to your Critical Multiplier
9d6 Light Damage (Only some golems are immune)
Cost 20 HP to enter, and 5hp,1sp/swing

Costing 2-4 more hp per swing +1sp per swing makes the cost, essentially, more than double per swing. Therefore, you get, essentially, more than double the "vicious" damage per swing. Like I said, it's no more broken than other abilities that other classes have.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Lord of Rage...

My not wanting advice had nothing to do with using the abilities, it had more to do with people telling me that my character was SO wrong because I don't dump wisdom.

As for Death Frenzy vs. Divine Sacrifice (The point of this thread):

Death Frenzy:
+4 to Strength (+2 damage per hit, before multipliers)
+1 To your Critical Multiplier
4d6 Damage (Vicious so nothing is resistant to it)
Costs 20 HP to enter and 1d3/swing...

Divine Sacrifice (What I'm proposing):
+1 to your Critical Multiplier
9d6 Light Damage (Only some golems are immune)
Cost 20 HP to enter, and 5hp,1sp/swing

Costing 2-4 more hp per swing +1sp per swing makes the cost, essentially, more than double per swing. Therefore, you get, essentially, more than double the "vicious" damage per swing. Like I said, it's no more broken than other abilities that other classes have.

Death Frenzy isn't +1 critical multiplier.

[LookingForABentoBox]

If I recall correctly you had the I am right and everyone else is wrong thing going. You didnt want the advice. That neg rep was one you earned.

The reason ds would be overpowered is you get 9d6 light dmg per strike with ds3 and a +1 to your multiplier. Nothing in the game is immune to light damage. To have this on a frenzy like clickie would be insane. 1 min bursts of ds. Then paladins would be the dps flavor of the month. Its just crazy.

Why would the OP's suggestion do more damage than its current implementation? Just have it apply its damage as often as it would if it were on a cooldown like it is now. It would be the same dps but less clicking. Am I misunderstanding the OP's intent?

On a side note, many constructs are immune to light damage.

[Junts]

Death Frenzy isn't +1 critical multiplier.

Yes .. it is. FB have a total of +3 crit multiplier on 19s and 20s. 2 are from the pre tiers, and one is only active with frenzy going.


Div-sac is +1 on any crit range, so it is in practice a bit more broken than the +1 on the barbarian effect, as it has weapon biases.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Yes .. it is. FB have a total of +3 crit multiplier on 19s and 20s. 2 are from the pre tiers, and one is only active with frenzy going.


Div-sac is +1 on any crit range, so it is in practice a bit more broken than the +1 on the barbarian effect, as it has weapon biases.

My mistake. I thought it was only 2 increases both of them on FB 2 and 3.

[elraido]

If I recall correctly you had the I am right and everyone else is wrong thing going. You didnt want the advice. That neg rep was one you earned.

The reason ds would be overpowered is you get 9d6 light dmg per strike with ds3 and a +1 to your multiplier. Nothing in the game is immune to light damage. To have this on a frenzy like clickie would be insane. 1 min bursts of ds. Then paladins would be the dps flavor of the month. Its just crazy.

That 9d6 is if you take all the tiers. I know on my main, I don't have anywhere near enough ap to take it all the way to the top tier.

It could be implemented with an auto 3 sec cool down timer after each attack. It will keep it activated as long as you have it on....so even if you aren't in combat, 5hp 1sp/every 3 seconds will be taken away. But like mentioned, it really wouldn't even need the 3 second cool down timer....the barbs have FB. We are just trading more hp (and sp) for more damage.

[DrNuegebauer]

Can't you just put all the Pally clickies on a hotbar and just button mash your way through combat?

If you're button mashing properly (and built properly) nobody is gonna out-DPS you at endgame. And you really should be able to win kill counts regularly on the way there too.

Surely the reason that it's so "clicky" is because a Pally can get enormous DPS by doing it right?

[elraido]

Can't you just put all the Pally clickies on a hotbar and just button mash your way through combat?

If you're button mashing properly (and built properly) nobody is gonna out-DPS you at endgame. And you really should be able to win kill counts regularly on the way there too.

Surely the reason that it's so "clicky" is because a Pally can get enormous DPS by doing it right?

Well yeah you can do that...but button mashing could be a little less intense on a paladin when every other class out there doesn't have anywhere near as much mashing to do. I.E. FB, Manyshot, etc. Could you imagine having to hit implosion once a second for the 8 seconds it goes off. It is the same realm as that.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Well yeah you can do that...but button mashing could be a little less intense on a paladin when every other class out there doesn't have anywhere near as much mashing to do. I.E. FB, Manyshot, etc. Could you imagine having to hit implosion once a second for the 8 seconds it goes off. It is the same realm as that.

What about Monks?

[elraido]

What about Monks?

Hate them Besides they have Touch of Death basically whenever they want. We need to hope for a crit smite to hit those numbers. LOL.

[psymun]

Hate them Besides they have Touch of Death basically whenever they want. We need to hope for a crit smite to hit those numbers. LOL.

Yah, put a save or a crit range on touch of death, then monks can complain.

[lord_of_rage]

Lord of Rage...

My not wanting advice had nothing to do with using the abilities, it had more to do with people telling me that my character was SO wrong because I don't dump wisdom.

As for Death Frenzy vs. Divine Sacrifice (The point of this thread):

Death Frenzy:
+4 to Strength (+2 damage per hit, before multipliers)
+1 To your Critical Multiplier
4d6 Damage (Vicious so nothing is resistant to it)
Costs 20 HP to enter and 1d3/swing...

Divine Sacrifice (What I'm proposing):
+1 to your Critical Multiplier
9d6 Light Damage (Only some golems are immune)
Cost 20 HP to enter, and 5hp,1sp/swing

Costing 2-4 more hp per swing +1sp per swing makes the cost, essentially, more than double per swing. Therefore, you get, essentially, more than double the "vicious" damage per swing. Like I said, it's no more broken than other abilities that other classes have.

Having ds trigger on every hit like frenzy does would be insane. As much as I would love it. I have mutipule paladins, it would be overpowered. Here is the other thing. Its active like you described. Now boom you trigger ES. So on top of ds going you have the es damage. Paladins who already have killer burst dps would be just nuts then. Conc opp and or the torc for sp. Most paladins already have this, and heals =s constant ds. DS+ES+zeal+df+dm all at the same time is quite simply insane. I shudder and drool over the concept at the same time. So yes it would be overpowered. But since rogues are going to be taking 4x oppertunist why not.

[lord_of_rage]

Well yeah you can do that...but button mashing could be a little less intense on a paladin when every other class out there doesn't have anywhere near as much mashing to do. I.E. FB, Manyshot, etc. Could you imagine having to hit implosion once a second for the 8 seconds it goes off. It is the same realm as that.

I like the active paladin combat to be honest. It keeps raids from being a snooze fest broken up only by sipping my beer.

[Xeraphim]

Divine Sacrifice requires 1 SP, too. Not sure if that would make coding it as a toggle function wonky. And aren't KoTC Paladin's some of the highest DPS against Evil Outsiders?

Using some practiced timing exploits with the monk dark attack(and heavy Sneak damage with frosted elemental and alignment burst greater bane handwraps), I was able to keep aggro off of Barb 20s, Fighter 20s and most Paladin 20s in Epic Partycrashers. When we went to fight the Abishai, I was with a Paladin KoTCIII that had the ToD set, an Epic Sword of Shadows, and some other goodies. That paladin was the only one who consistently kept aggro off of my little halfling Monk.

I'd say against Evil Outsiders, Knight of the Chalice probably has some of the best DPS.. but it's heavily specific to that monster type and therefore not a redeeming trait.