Is this gimp playable?

[AltheaSteelrain]

Inspired by playing around with SINIBYTE's DDO Gimp Roller

I rolled something odd...

6 Ranger, 8 Bard, 6 Barb.

Is it playable? I'm tempted because I had this idea of making a Frenzied Tempest Warchanter.

If so, can anyone build a template around this concept? Or deflate my bubble so I can grind instead of rerolling bards again and again so I can TR my main bard faster.

No Warforged please, I don't have them and I'm not playing one.

Thanks!~ XD

[Freeman]

Let's see, required feats to get all of these: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, and Cleave. That leaves you with one extra feat. Ranger at least gives you TWF and ITWF, so you could still take GTWF, but you would not have Toughness(Big loss of HP there, considering your hit die) or Improved Crit. As a human with the extra feat, you might be able to pull it off a little better. Is it playable? I'd say yes. Would I play it? Probably not. You are just spread too thin overall. You aren't enough bard to fill the bard role, and your DPS is hurt by the lower PrEs.

[chaosp1]

Are the level choices fixed?


Bard 7 gets the level 3 spells like haste and rage. Umd usage of wands etc. (warchanter)
Barb 6 gets you frenzied beserker
Range 6 gets you tempest.


The last level is your choice of either ranger 7 (gets you wild animal charm) or barbarian 7 (barb sprint, improved Dr, toughness III)


Maybe go half-orc in update and really go the strength line, since you can have rage spell, frenzy, ram's might and barbarian rage all at once.

As for feats

1) Toughness
3) Oversized 2-weapon fighting (at ranger level 2)
6) Power Attack
9) Cleave
12) Weapon Focus -X (slash or bludge your choice)
15) Weapon Critical - X

etc

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

A+ on the imagination. I'd have to agree with Freeman. That build looks doable, but you are spread way too thin. The songs arent there, so imho the bard levels are wasted. I'd vote no-go, with a few points of props on thinking out of the box

[AltheaSteelrain]

Are the level choices fixed?


Bard 7 gets the level 3 spells like haste and rage. Umd usage of wands etc. (warchanter)
Barb 6 gets you frenzied beserker
Range 6 gets you tempest.


The last level is your choice of either ranger 7 (gets you wild animal charm) or barbarian 7 (barb sprint, improved Dr, toughness III)


Maybe go half-orc in update and really go the strength line, since you can have rage spell, frenzy, ram's might and barbarian rage all at once.

As for feats

1) Toughness
3) Oversized 2-weapon fighting (at ranger level 2)
6) Power Attack
9) Cleave
12) Weapon Focus -X (slash or bludge your choice)
15) Weapon Critical - X

etc

The choices are not fixed, but as a somewhat experienced player gimping bards, the barest minimum to deeply multiclass a bard in my humble opinion is bard 8, since you will gain the Imp. Inspire Courage Feat that will ensure that what you will sing in a raid will really boost the overall DPS of the group.

Though I know from the three bard PrE's, spellsinger is the cheapest, followed by Virtuoso and Warchanter. But I cannot live without Warchanter I: I fell in love with this PrE the day someone pointed me to the right direction of multiclassing :P *hints signs below my sig*

Though your point is really valid, as I haven't mentioned that I got a weird idea of stacking all stackable Strength Buffs and constant DPS boost such as Frenzy and Ram's Might, dual wielding Scimitars (I prefer elf btw) or khopeshes (if feat willing please grant me more feats!). Though as Freeman pointed out, this is a very feat starved concept,.

So its either the ranger part must go, but I felt having manyshot is a nice perk to have, makes the gimp in me giggle at the thought of firing volleys every two minutes using my Lightning II Longbow :P or scrap the project all together.

Come U7 though, this idea will persist in my mind when we find out more about the Half-Orcs.

[chaosp1]

it's a triple class, which is going to suffer for that anyway, anyway I like the idea of playing some difficulty. I guess the extra inspire is probably necessary.

[AltheaSteelrain]

A+ on the imagination. I'd have to agree with Freeman. That build looks doable, but you are spread way too thin. The songs arent there, so imho the bard levels are wasted. I'd vote no-go, with a few points of props on thinking out of the box

Yeah, I tried to squeeze em all in both Elf and Human Variant, but found without extend, I should just probably craft tier II haste clickies ad infinitum than put a go green on this concept. I just felt like posting this to see if some more experienced players can give me an idea on how to make this build viable.

A+ for creativity? Thank You.

It seems with the looooooong weekend I have (its the peak of boring college days before the hellish final exam period :P) I am considering all "non conformist" options to help me decide which Bard build should I TR into, even if it sounds GIMPY. :P Though reading both sides of the argument (you know...) it is very difficult to create a personal and viable raiding build.

Though I'm getting there..

Looks like this is gonna be a no go concept. Oh well, guess its gonna be what I posted on Genghis Khan Leslie, which I plan to TR into, or the 16 bard/2 fighter/2 Barb Intimibard my guildie insists me to roll on my next TR (for fun and profit). I dunno..

Ultimately I might be in a player TR crisis right now, resulting in a severe case of Bard Altitis.

Thank you for replying

[AltheaSteelrain]

it's a triple class, which is going to suffer for that anyway

I know, but I don't think it suffered that much being heavily multiclassed in its role in the party as DPS, but rather the feat starved ambitious concept of mixing three PrE's in one package.

Theoretically, it should bring decent damage with frenzy, dual wielding scimitar w/ racial enhancements, 40 sustainable STR before barb rage, and can survive with decent saves, HP pool and fast movement.

But yep, this is mostly from armchair speculation based on my experience as a raging bardbarian. :|

[BoBoDaClown]

I know, but I don't think it suffered that much being heavily multiclassed in its role in the party as DPS, but rather the feat starved ambitious concept of mixing three PrE's in one package.

Theoretically, it should bring decent damage with frenzy, dual wielding scimitar w/ racial enhancements, 40 sustainable STR before barb rage, and can survive with decent saves, HP pool and fast movement.

But yep, this is mostly from armchair speculation based on my experience as a raging bardbarian. :|

If you did make it, you really would have to go War chanter for the extra +2 damage to songs (which I think you are aware of).

[AltheaSteelrain]

If you did make it, you really would have to go War chanter for the extra +2 damage to songs (which I think you are aware of).

Yeah. I'm still trying to piece together this gimp puzzle and try to make it look decent both in paper and in practice, but what's stopping me from putting the Go sign is:

1. Would I have sufficient Reflex Save to compensate the lack of evasion?

2. Would my HP reach the pre-shroud 400 hp benchmark?

3. Would Kensai I be a more logical choice over Tempest I?

Kensai I would give me 3 more feats (-1 since I'd be spec'd for slashing weapons) however, Tempest I would give me 10% off hand proc rate, manyshot (the gimp in me screams use it!!) and other freebies, though I still have to take GTWF, and Ram's Might is just +3 damage. +3 damage = weapon spec + kensai. As a plus, Kensai requirements has synergies with the warchanter path.

hmm... Got me thinking there boba..

BRB. Planner mode (yes, I'm bored, its a long week ahead of me before the exam period)

[78mackson]

Inspired by playing around with SINIBYTE's DDO Gimp Roller

I rolled something odd...

6 Ranger, 8 Bard, 6 Barb.

Is it playable? I'm tempted because I had this idea of making a Frenzied Tempest Warchanter.

If so, can anyone build a template around this concept? Or deflate my bubble so I can grind instead of rerolling bards again and again so I can TR my main bard faster.

No Warforged please, I don't have them and I'm not playing one.

Thanks!~ XD

I would go WF for that build.. I'd be annoyed over the constant exhaustions of mortal beings .. your rage will probably last longer then your haste n displacement...

but oki.. say human:
8 feats:
1. gr. twf,
2. PA,
3. Toughness,
4. Cleave
5. WF
6. dodge
7. mob
8. spring att.

(I'd swap dodge, mob and spring to extend, TR:feat paladin, imp. critical.)

Since your sucha pro builder this is ofc a TR with mintus waiting for you at lvl12. hence no need for imp. crit.

edit: maybe swap barb levels for rogue? would have a better synergy with your not being WF thing.. and probably end up in higher dmg, and somewhat better non raid survival(evasion)

[Aschbart]

Are the level choices fixed?


Bard 7 gets the level 3 spells like haste and rage. Umd usage of wands etc. (warchanter)
Barb 6 gets you frenzied beserker
Range 6 gets you tempest.

Not quite correct: Rage is a level 2 spell for bards! But then, Displacement is also on the level 3 list, so Haste + Displacement is still a pretty strong argument.

The funny thing is, I even considered such a build a couple of months ago, but I quickly realized that I'd need more bard levels to make it work, something like bard Warchanter 12 / barb FB 6 / Ranger 2 maybe. But then I realized I need level 13 for GH...

[Darkrok]

I think you might have some serious problems on the AP's. I tried a 12 monk/7 fighter/1 rogue intimitank healing amp kensei ninja spy build a month ago and I had it completely laid out. The skills worked out. The feats worked out. Everything came out perfectly. Then I went into the AP's and would have needed about 100+ to get everything the build needed. Might want to double-check the AP costs on Tempest/Kensei (depending on which way you go), FB, and Warchanter, as well as any other abilities you'd need.

[78mackson]

Not quite correct: Rage is a level 2 spell for bards! But then, Displacement is also on the level 3 list, so Haste + Displacement is still a pretty strong argument.

The funny thing is, I even considered such a build a couple of months ago, but I quickly realized that I'd need more bard levels to make it work, something like bard Warchanter 12 / barb FB 6 / Ranger 2 maybe. But then I realized I need level 13 for GH...

GH is a clicky and you can scroll it.

[maddmatt70]

I would go WF for that build.. I'd be annoyed over the constant exhaustions of mortal beings .. your rage will probably last longer then your haste n displacement...

but oki.. say human:
8 feats:
1. gr. twf,
2. PA,
3. Toughness,
4. Cleave
5. WF
6. dodge
7. mob
8. spring att.

(I'd swap dodge, mob and spring to extend, TR:feat paladin, imp. critical.)

Since your sucha pro builder this is ofc a TR with mintus waiting for you at lvl12. hence no need for imp. crit.

edit: maybe swap barb levels for rogue? would have a better synergy with your not being WF thing.. and probably end up in higher dmg, and somewhat better non raid survival(evasion)

I would swap out the ranger levels for rogue and go Barbarian/bard /rogue.

I am not sure how playable these sorts of builds will be when the prestige enhancements come for bard. I would not invest much time into it until the devs come out with more information.

[Freeman]

I would swap out the ranger levels for rogue and go Barbarian/bard /rogue.

I am not sure how playable these sorts of builds will be when the prestige enhancements come for bard. I would not invest much time into it until the devs come out with more information.

True, since we know higher level Warchanter tiers are coming in the next month or so, things could change dramatically once that is released. I also agree that dropping one of the classes with a feat-dependent PrE would be best. Of course, at that point, we start moving towards more common builds, such as bard/fighter/rogue, but there's a reason optimization leads to similar builds

[Irinis]

I hear ya on bard altitis. TR'd my Spellsinger main and wasn't happy until I had another Spellsinger main! And now a Virtuoso... probably gonna roll another Warchanter soon.

Anyway, the level split... what about just not qualifying for Tempest? I thought since the nerf just having first tier wasn't worth 3 feats?

[Anthios888]

Too many feat requirements to make it all fit, but a build like this would work very well. My guildie plays this build and it is very uber. I am rolling a 9 bard / 8 fighter / 3 rogue variant that is warforged with stunning blow.

[unbongwah]

Only 3 PrEs? Please - it's like you're barely trying. Elf bard 8 / barb 6 / ftr 6 - Frenzied Arcane Kensai Warchanter Archer Berserker is where it's at!

[AltheaSteelrain]

Woah!~ so many replies :P

I would go WF for that build.. I'd be annoyed over the constant exhaustions of mortal beings .. your rage will probably last longer then your haste n displacement...

but oki.. say human:
8 feats:
1. gr. twf,
2. PA,
3. Toughness,
4. Cleave
5. WF
6. dodge
7. mob
8. spring att.

(I'd swap dodge, mob and spring to extend, TR:feat paladin, imp. critical.)

Since your sucha pro builder this is ofc a TR with mintus waiting for you at lvl12. hence no need for imp. crit.

edit: maybe swap barb levels for rogue? would have a better synergy with your not being WF thing.. and probably end up in higher dmg, and somewhat better non raid survival(evasion)

I could remove the Imp. Crit and Go human to make this work, but I don't like the idea of locking myself out of other shiny weapons. Although if I forego crit chance, I'd say I'll go dual wield heavy picks and rely on auto-crit chances to deal burst DPS.

But personally that's piking already for this build, as it contradicts the point of being a bard: support. So I would have to be "assisted" to land my damage consistently?

The funny thing is, I even considered such a build a couple of months ago, but I quickly realized that I'd need more bard levels to make it work, something like bard Warchanter 12 / barb FB 6 / Ranger 2 maybe. But then I realized I need level 13 for GH...

You can use a Scroll from the pottyble... err portable hole. I use them all the time on my experimental 12 bard 6 barb 2 (still empty, might settle for rogue instead of fighter).

I think you might have some serious problems on the AP's. I tried a 12 monk/7 fighter/1 rogue intimitank healing amp kensei ninja spy build a month ago and I had it completely laid out. The skills worked out. The feats worked out. Everything came out perfectly. Then I went into the AP's and would have needed about 100+ to get everything the build needed. Might want to double-check the AP costs on Tempest/Kensei (depending on which way you go), FB, and Warchanter, as well as any other abilities you'd need.

I did this, and the AP's are fine up until I doubled check and realized I'd be spending my life burning tissues (scrolls) to heal. Though personal DPS cost for AP's (Elf) fit nice and smooth unlike the feat selection, I did not have room for support stuff like heals and SP enhancement. Not a good sign for raid groups, since on my current bard, I plan to tissue heal cure mass mod in addition to my cure mas light for additional "anti-wipe" measures during tank and spank modes.

And I want my usefulness :P

I would swap out the ranger levels for rogue and go Barbarian/bard /rogue.

I am not sure how playable these sorts of builds will be when the prestige enhancements come for bard. I would not invest much time into it until the devs come out with more information.

Going Bard 12 / 6 barb / 2 rogue THF (no room for TWF unless I go human *sighs*) is on top of my TR build list, followed closely by 12 bard /6 ranger / 2 rogue and 12 bard/ 6 barb/2 fighter for a dual wielding variant.

I hope though on update 7 they fix the frenzy animation, among other things and boost the Bard PrE's. But the frenzy animation is one of the big reason why I prefer the ranger route. More gimpy less noisy and more flavorful and still decent.

True, since we know higher level Warchanter tiers are coming in the next month or so, things could change dramatically once that is released. I also agree that dropping one of the classes with a feat-dependent PrE would be best. Of course, at that point, we start moving towards more common builds, such as bard/fighter/rogue, but there's a reason optimization leads to similar builds

Well if we strip down naked this concept we will see that what I really wanted was

- a Dual Wielder, fast attack (Tempest I)
- Gets great bonuses either from damage boosts (Frenzy) or sneak attacks (assassin I)
- Multi-role Fighter (Manyshot + Melee + songs + Rage = Fun)
- A decent Tank at best (at least 500 HP post shroud before epics), a pocket bard at worst (bard 8)

So that is my reasoning behind the weird gimp splashing.

I hear ya on bard altitis. TR'd my Spellsinger main and wasn't happy until I had another Spellsinger main! And now a Virtuoso... probably gonna roll another Warchanter soon.

Anyway, the level split... what about just not qualifying for Tempest? I thought since the nerf just having first tier wasn't worth 3 feats?

It's my first time rolling and playing a Dual Wielder, I had been persuaded by the DooMMM111!!! comments during U5 and also found 28 pt builds difficult to play as Dual Wielders (even when playing elves) as a newbie player.

After reading and researching tempest builds, I made a judgement call that I would get that additional 10% off hand proc rate since if I'll be meleeing with two weapons to begin with, that 10% wouldn't hurt right?

Too many feat requirements to make it all fit, but a build like this would work very well. My guildie plays this build and it is very uber. I am rolling a 9 bard / 8 fighter / 3 rogue variant that is warforged with stunning blow.

LOL at your presentation! XD

The gimp in me giggles in delight of rolling one