Ok, here's the disclaimer. I know there's a boatload wrong with this build. It's a way old one from someplace (when the level cap was 12) that I've kind of extended and messed around with. I'm not a huge expert on bards. Trying to learn. So concructive criticism on this baby would be nice.
I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYONE BUILD THIS AS IT IS LISTED.
I just want to know what you'd change. And why. School is now in session.
EDIT: Instead of changing the original wreck, I am putting a current/adjusted version at the bottom of the thread. This way anyone trying to follow the arguments/advice can see the original issues as posted. I have found it difficult in the past to follow along with build critiques when the original build "got fixed" in the post.
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Thread: School Me on Bards, please
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09-16-2010, 02:18 PM #1Community Member
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School Me on Bards, please
Last edited by Sympl; 09-16-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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09-16-2010, 02:20 PM #2Community Member
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Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page The Maestro Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female (20 Bard) Hit Points: 160 Spell Points: 969 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 7 Reflex: 13 Will: 12 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 14 16 Dexterity 10 12 Constitution 10 12 Intelligence 12 14 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 20 32 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 4 14 Bluff 5 11 Concentration 4 24 Diplomacy 5 13 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 5 11 Heal -1 0 Hide 0 1 Intimidate 5 11 Jump 6 26 Listen -1 27 Move Silently 0 1 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform 9 39 Repair 1 2 Search 1 4 Spot -1 2 Swim 6 26 Tumble 4 24 Use Magic Device 9 34 Level 1 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Perform (+4) Skill: Swim (+4) Skill: Tumble (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I Enhancement: Bard Perform I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Level 2 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Level 3 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform Spell (1): Remove Fear Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Level 4 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Blur Spell (2): Cat's Grace Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Perform II Level 5 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Sonic Blast Spell (2): Soundburst Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I Level 6 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Level 7 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Glitterdust Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Spell (3): Haste Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Level 8 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Good Hope Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Level 9 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Non Race Restricted +4 Dex Item becomes available: Swap Cat's Grace for Invisibility Level 10 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Displacement Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers Level 11 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Cure Critical Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Level 12 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Level 13 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Hold Monster Spell (5): Greater Heroism Spell (5): Mind Fog Level 14 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Summon Monster V Enhancement: Bard Charisma III Level 15 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Level 16 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Focusing Chant Spell (5): Shadow Walk Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance Spell (6): Charm Monster, Mass Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II
Last edited by Sympl; 09-16-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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09-16-2010, 02:22 PM #3Community Member
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Code:Level 17 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern Spell (6): Cure Moderate, Mass Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV At which point I plan on Feat swapping Skill Focus: Perform for Extend Spell and reseting my enhancements like so: Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Enhancement: Bard Perform I Enhancement: Bard Perform II Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Bard Charisma III Level 18 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Remove Curse Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I Level 19 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Dominate Person Spell (6): Heroes' Feast Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II Level 20 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Tumble (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Greater Dispell Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy Enhancement: Bard Perform III Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Last edited by Sympl; 09-16-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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09-16-2010, 03:25 PM #4Community Member
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Ron's character planner is a great tool - but the coded builds everyone posts.. I cannot take that serious. You know what I mean? Imagine if Google would present em self in the same manner as www.Zombo.com then how many users would they have.. hey.. oki bad example since thats exactly how they represent em self :P
Camp Naughty Bad FunJichael Mackson
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09-16-2010, 03:43 PM #5Community Member
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First of all, I'd drop Inpired Bravery altogether There are myriad better ways to spend the AP's especially since people are almost always going to be immune to fear anyways. You also missed taking the Capstone so that's a net of 4AP's freed up between those two. You only spent 62AP's in your build so adding in the 4AP's that we saved gives us a total remaining AP's of 22.
Mental Toughness just doesn't strike me as being worth the feat. Unless you've got nowhere to spend those 7AP's you would free up I can't see it being worth a feat to get about 100sp's. You might need to drink a pot every now and then where you wouldn't have with the feat but that's no big deal.
You didn't take a feat at level 18. I'd highly recommend making one of the earlier feats Toughness or you could just take it at 18. In any case, take it.
That would spend 3ap's of the 7ap's we saved in Extra Song III & IV to get an additional 20hp's from enhancements in addition to the 20hp's from the feat. That frees up 4ap's if you go that route.
You're not always going to be needed for crowd control so you'll want to be able to do something else in the times you're not cc'ing. Given your very high Cha you'll have a decent amount of sp's - maybe another 250'ish or so more than my Warchanter from charisma alone. That would make healing off your blue bar appealing. The problem here is that you'll really want two other feats if you want to heal from the blue bar - Quicken and Maximize. So you'll have to sacrifice something. I wouldn't give up 40hp's on a 10 con bard but that's one choice (that frees back up those 3ap's from Racial Toughness I & II). You could give up a combination of two feats in the Enchantment/Spell Pen areas. You could drop Extend. You could even drop Toughness and Skill Focus: Perform both which given your original build is probably the direction I'd expect you to take.
So you've got two directions you could go. You could drop two feats (I'm going to assume you drop Toughness/Skill Focus: Perform here even though I wouldn't recommend dropping Toughness) to get Quicken/Maximize. If you do that then a heavy investment into the healing AP's would be wise. You could stick to healing off of scroll in which case you have far more AP's available both for Wand & Scroll Mastery (max this in that case...maybe even if you heal off the bar as well) and for maxing out the Spell Penetration line. I probably wouldn't max out that line...might not even take any...but that depends on whether you want to be an absolute expert in CC or you want to have extremely good CC as well as extremely good healing.
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09-16-2010, 03:48 PM #6Community Member
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The more I think about this build though (especially looking at the hp's) the more I think that you pretty much have to have Toughness. Let me play around, rejigger the stats a bit, and post a skeleton build for you that sticks with your theme.
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09-16-2010, 04:01 PM #7Community Member
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Here's the skeleton build...comments in the next post
Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page Level 20 Neutral Good Drow Male (20 Bard) Hit Points: 242 Spell Points: 757 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 9 Reflex: 13 Will: 12 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 10 12 Dexterity 10 12 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 10 12 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 20 27 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 0 1 Bluff 5 8 Concentration 2 3 Diplomacy 5 10 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 5 8 Heal -1 0 Hide 0 1 Intimidate 5 8 Jump 0 1 Listen -1 4 Move Silently 0 1 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair 0 1 Search 0 3 Spot -1 2 Swim 0 1 Tumble n/a n/a Use Magic Device n/a n/a Level 1 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Level 2 (Bard) Level 3 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment Level 4 (Bard) Level 5 (Bard) Level 6 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Level 7 (Bard) Level 8 (Bard) Level 9 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell Level 10 (Bard) Level 11 (Bard) Level 12 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell Level 13 (Bard) Level 14 (Bard) Level 15 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration Level 16 (Bard) Level 17 (Bard) Level 18 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration Level 19 (Bard) Level 20 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Bard Perform I Enhancement: Bard Perform II Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Bard Charisma III Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II
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09-16-2010, 04:05 PM #8Community Member
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Heighten is needed. Swim and tumble arent. SF: Perform isnt. CON is.
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09-16-2010, 04:31 PM #9Community Member
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Ok...key differences.
Stats: Str is not doing much good here. You just don't have the hp-base to get in there swinging. And we don't need the skill points badly enough to give up Con to get them. Dropped 6 build points from here and put them into going from 10con to 14con. That nets us 40hp's at level 20.
Feats: Dropped Mental Toughness and Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment (my one sacrifice of your original build focus in the interest of maximum playability) for Quicken and Empower. Stuck with your swapping idea of Skill Focus: Perform for Extend later on but moved the feats to level 6 to fit in Toughness and Spell Focus: Enchantment first.
Enhancements: You hadn't fleshed these out all the way but I did remove Inspire Courage III and added the Capstone. Added the 3AP's in Racial Toughness. I dropped Lingering Song III & IV. We really need the AP's since we took Extra Song IV (since we needed the feats even more) and Lingering Song only helps beneficial songs, not our CC songs. Maxed out Song Magic and took the very cheap first tier in both of the crit lines. I normally like more crit pop than that but to stay true to your build I needed the AP's elsewhere. Charisma III is still in there. I normally don't go higher than Charisma II (if I take it at all) but you're looking for the maximum DC you can get and we already sacrificed 1 DC in our feats so I didn't want to take that away from your build. I made the sacrifice for more Spell Pen - you're going to need it if you're doing a ton of CC in places like Amrath. Finally, I took Wand & Scroll Mastery II. I normally like taking Wand & Scroll Mastery IV but again, sacrifices have to be made to maximize crowd control ability.
What all of this gives us is a very capable healer with respectable scroll healing (159 point scroll heals/reconstructs), very solid healing (make sure to take both mass cures so they can be alternated), and a very good sp pool. In addition we've only sacrificed 1 DC and 1 Spell Pen from what a max build would have. We've also maximized our hp's within the bounds of a drow pure bard with high DC's.
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09-16-2010, 04:33 PM #10Community Member
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****. Heighten. Probably need to drop the second spell pen feat for that in my build I posted. Either that or dropping Extend. You definitely don't want to drop Toughess though.
Originally Posted by geezee
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09-16-2010, 04:33 PM #11Community Member
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yea need toughness a 12 con bard virtuoso wont survive once he goes in a big crowd trying to train and enthrall mobs 2 or 3 good hits one failed will save and your toast.
I can understand the mental toughness feat tho you're no spellsinger so you basicly loose 100 sp there already and charisma only goes so far even then.. try to not take it not on a spellspecced virtuoso at least unless you're really gonna focus a lot on healing.
To heavy on the spell pen 2 feats +4 + +2 from talents = 6 again understandable but overkill 1 feat and 1 ap is more then enough for most mobs out there you can also consider dropping a feat and drop 6 ap into it thats all up to you tho.
A basic Drow spell specced virtuoso would look a lill like this..
bit like darkrok build i too choose 14 con for at least the bare minimum.Code:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.32 DDO Character Planner Home Page drow Virt Level 20 Neutral Good Drow Female (20 Bard) Hit Points: 242 Spell Points: 864 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 9 Reflex: 12 Will: 12 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 10 10 Dexterity 10 10 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 10 12 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 20 32 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 4 23 Bluff 5 11 Concentration 6 27 Diplomacy 5 25 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 9 34 Heal -1 0 Hide 0 0 Intimidate 5 11 Jump 4 23 Listen -1 4 Move Silently 0 0 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform 9 41 Repair 0 1 Search 0 3 Spot -1 2 Swim 0 0 Tumble n/a 1 Use Magic Device 9 34 Level 1 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I Level 2 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Level 3 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Enhancement: Bard Perform I Level 4 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Perform II Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II Level 5 (Bard) Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I Level 6 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Level 7 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Level 8 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Level 9 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Level 10 (Bard) Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III Level 11 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV Level 12 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Level 13 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III Level 14 (Bard) Level 15 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Level 16 (Bard) Level 17 (Bard) Level 18 (Bard) Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell Level 19 (Bard) Level 20 (Bard) Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy Enhancement: Bard Concentration I Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
switch out skill focus perform at 18 or at 20 and change it into spell pen feat wich gives you 20 + 2(feat)+2(capstone) +1 enh + 3 item = 28 spell pen i know some people here say its a total waste and others say its really important i like the middle ground its nice to have and worth investing in. Your song wont do anything to mobs spell resistance but it will do something against there will saves so yea..
Heighten is needed to give your discoball/mass suggestion any other spells dc enough to stick to the higher level mobs.
Also i choose to invest into the enchantment drow saves to make you more durable when you run into big group of mobs who try to hold you.
And healing cause a 0 hp drow is a useless drow with bard song magic4 emp healing 9% crit and 0.25 crit mod add that to the gianthold gloves or the healing mace from invaders and you end up with a nice 18% crit and 0.50 mace or 0.75 crit modifier. It only adds to your survival in the long run when youre able to heal yourself to full with 1 crit or heal yourself for 50% with 1 normal emp heal + some basic healing amp items. And it makes you have a lill more selfesteem when people are screaming for spellsong trace at least you can say that you can heal too.
It's not an easy character to level tho. 10 str and 10 dex basicly means depend on others for your experience. You won't be soloing a lot on this drow and this can be verry verry frustrating on your way to 20 but once you hit 20 you should be home free.
Last edited by bartosy; 09-16-2010 at 04:46 PM.
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09-16-2010, 04:45 PM #12Community Member
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Thanks for the Replies. And yeah, just noticed I didn't tuck all the detail into the planner appropriately. Or accidentaly edited them out....capstone is there in the second part of the post though...and I haven't scanned though your builds just yet, but I'm about to...thanks. I like taking old builds and making them work. Even if they aren't your grade A preferred build when they're done. I learn a lot from ripping them apart. Helps my future builds immensly.
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09-16-2010, 05:34 PM #13Community Member
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Ok, Heighten, Quicken and Maximize.
Looking at the Proposed Spells....The only offensive I see are Sonic Blast and Soundburst (to an extent). Why do I need Maximize? I'm not shooting to be a cleric here. (I know Maximize works on Healing spells). And the only reson I even have Healing spells at all is because I don't see much better in the list and a little self healing is nice on occasion....Join Date: Nov 2007
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09-16-2010, 05:57 PM #14Community Member
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Ok, I've rewritten and revamped and thought out everything you guys have said. And I'm not trying to argue. My biggest issue is that I have never messed around with the wand enhancement lines and haven't yet played a caster far enough to really get the hang of the meta-feats yet. So I'm going with the suggestions on the feats because Heighten makes sense when I look at it as defined here. And quicken makes sense because I've seen how slow some of these spells pop off...and maximize makes sense in the healing aspect.....but I wasn't really planning on being healer. Backup or otherwise. Is buff/CC so worthless that I'm going to need to amp up the healing aspect to make the build useful enough? I mean I can go that route. Just wasn't thinking that way. I'm used to playing melee and Ranger with limited self heals. Figgured this would be similar on the limited self heals and wherever it happened to spill over onto others....gravy. And how useful is MindFog going to be towards lowering the saves of beasties along with the rest of the build? I was kind of hoping to capitalize on using that. At any rate I'm going to post up a revised version of the build and keep it at the bottom of this thread (with an note or link in the intial post so that anyone reading this for assistance can still follow the arguements). And any further insight you can throw my way is and will be appreciated.
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09-16-2010, 06:05 PM #15Community Member
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EDIT: Replaced Tumble with DiplomacyCode:Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1 DDO Character Planner Home Page The Maestro Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female (20 Bard) Hit Points: 242 Spell Points: 844 BAB: 15\15\20\25\25 Fortitude: 9 Reflex: 13 Will: 12 Starting Feat/Enhancement Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats (28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) Strength 10 12 Dexterity 10 12 Constitution 14 16 Intelligence 10 12 Wisdom 8 10 Charisma 20 32 Tomes Used +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) Balance 4 14 Bluff 5 11 Concentration 6 26 Diplomacy 9 36 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle 5 11 Heal -1 0 Hide 0 1 Intimidate 5 11 Jump 4 24 Listen -1 27 Move Silently 0 1 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform 9 40 Repair 0 1 Search 0 3 Spot -1 2 Swim 0 2 Tumble n/a n/a Use Magic Device 9 34 Level 1 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+4) Skill: Concentration (+4) Skill: Jump (+4) Skill: Perform (+4) Skill: Diplomacy (+4) Skill: Use Magic Device (+4) Feat: (Selected) Toughness Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I Enhancement: Bard Perform I Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I Level 2 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I Enhancement: Bard Charisma I Level 3 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Perform (Substitute Maximize at Level 12) Spell (1): Remove Fear Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I Enhancement: Racial Toughness I Level 4 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Blur Spell (2): Cat's Grace (substitute for Invisibility at Level 9) Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II Enhancement: Bard Perform II Level 5 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Sonic Blast Spell (2): Soundburst Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I Level 6 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I Level 7 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Glitterdust Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds Spell (3): Haste Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II Level 8 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Good Hope Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II Level 9 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment Enhancement: Bard Charisma II Level 10 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (3): Displacement Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing Spell (4): Freedom of Movement Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers Level 11 (Bard) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+2) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III Level 12 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Swim (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV Level 13 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Hold Monster Spell (5): Greater Heroism Spell (5): Mind Fog Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III Level 14 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Summon Monster V Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV Level 15 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III Level 16 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (1): Focusing Chant Spell (5): Shadow Walk Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance Spell (6): Charm Monster, Mass Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II Level 17 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern Spell (6): Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass Level 18 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell Spell (3): Remove Curse Enhancement: Bard Charisma III Level 19 (Bard) Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (4): Dominate Person Spell (6): Heroes Feast Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration III Level 20 (Bard) Ability Raise: CHA Skill: Balance (+1) Skill: Concentration (+1) Skill: Jump (+1) Skill: Listen (+1) Skill: Perform (+1) Skill: Diplomacy (+1) Skill: Use Magic Device (+1) Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy Enhancement: Racial Toughness II Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Last edited by Sympl; 09-17-2010 at 05:23 AM.
Join Date: Nov 2007
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=152014
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09-16-2010, 08:56 PM #16Community Member
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I don't think you'll find this build very useful. Most of the time, you'll sing songs, cast haste, then stand in the corner tossing out an occasional Hold Monster. A Warchanter brings better buffs, a Spellsinger has better DCs and more healing potential. Virtuosi have their place but I would think most as a combo singer & healer.Is buff/CC so worthless that I'm going to need to amp up the healing aspect to make the build useful enough?
In any event, there's new songs coming soon, and we'll see how Virts are then.
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09-16-2010, 09:00 PM #17Community Member
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Greater Shout is offensive, one of the few good ones we get.
Unneeded-by-now criticism of first build:
10 CON ugh. Drop STR and sacrifice INT for more CON. And I LOVE skillpoints so if I say sacrifice INT, DO IT!
Feats -> SF:Perform, MT? Ugh. Swap out SF:Perform as soon as you can get Extra Songs IV.Please split the class forums into REAL subcategories this is a jumbled mess.
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09-17-2010, 05:16 AM #18Community Member
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That was the idea. And it's listed as such. Only had it as a pre-req for Virtouso anyways. Originally Posted by Irinis
Greater Shout, huh? I'll look at my spells again. And I'm going to replace Tumble with Diplomacy in the above listing.
Join Date: Nov 2007
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=152014
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09-17-2010, 06:46 AM #19Community Member
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I have been playing a virtuoso for a while now and i have made great use out of hide and move silent. Cast invisibility and go in sneak mode. Playing songs wont get you visible or break sneak mode, so you can enthrall without beeing hit much.
This tactic works great with a team that gets what you are doing or in solo. At best you are one room ahead of the party and just enthrall everything.
If you are in a guild which has access to the guild wand vendor you can buy level 8 fireball wands and some force missle ones, with used with the wands mastery do good enough damage to be of some use, at least in mid levels.
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09-17-2010, 11:02 AM #20Build Constructionist
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IMHO, Spellsinger is the better PrE for this build; seems like you really want to focus on CC spells. Take SF Enchantment instead of SF Perform and switch PrEs would be my advice.
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