Max AC tank, is it useful?

[Rune_Darkfire]

Been following this thread with keen interest. +1 to all for a reasonably constructive discussion.

Quik, what was your 2nd past life (other than fighter), and did you specifically plan it that way for your AC build?

In particular, other than the obvious fighter past-life selectable feat, is there any particular past-life combination that works exceptionally well for this build? Other than a brute force, barbarian x3 for +30 hp and paladin x3 for +15% healing amp?

Basically if I wanted two past-lives only (or say 3 or 4 if I had that much time on my hands), what would be the optimal set up here?

Thanks everyone...
-E.

[fedechicco]

with the update 9 changes to intimidate this build has become much less effective...

I just ran VoD hard as I always did with my turtle intimi-tank (fleshy), and i couldn't mantain the aggro for more than 5 seconds after the intimidation. I was used to a no-fail intimidation, ppl were amazed about my fleshy tank that never got hit and never got cursed... Now it was painful...

I tried swinging, but I have all my DT slots used for max AC, hence no hate multiplier.
I don't like this new intimidation, like this we are all hate tanks (a very bad one in my case...)

I'll TR again soon in a rogue. My next tank will be a bare handed max AC monk with some intimidation, it'll be far better than my Stalwart Defender especially built for intimi-tanking.

In fact, at the same time the kensai/monk splash are getting a full stunning fist, so they can get a no fail intimidation, an uber AC, self healing and DR breaking (with light monk combos) or great DPS (with dark monk combos).

I don't complain usually, still I find it ironic that the max AC is achievable without a shield and without a full plate.
At the same time it is ironic that a Stalwart Defender (supposed to be impenetrable like a 6-feet wall) gets bonuses when using a shield, but it is bad at tanking AND at DPSing with it.

Barbarians and uber DPS combinations are far better at tanking than the Stalwart Defender.

Well, dunno if this is the way it was supposed to be.

[Zharfie]

with the update 9 changes to intimidate this build has become much less effective...

I just ran VoD hard as I always did with my turtle intimi-tank (fleshy), and i couldn't mantain the aggro for more than 5 seconds after the intimidation. I was used to a no-fail intimidation, ppl were amazed about my fleshy tank that never got hit and never got cursed... Now it was painful...

I tried swinging, but I have all my DT slots used for max AC, hence no hate multiplier.
I don't like this new intimidation, like this we are all hate tanks (a very bad one in my case...)

I'll TR again soon in a rogue. My next tank will be a bare handed max AC monk with some intimidation, it'll be far better than my Stalwart Defender especially built for intimi-tanking.

In fact, at the same time the kensai/monk splash are getting a full stunning fist, so they can get a no fail intimidation, an uber AC, self healing and DR breaking (with light monk combos) or great DPS (with dark monk combos).

I don't complain usually, still I find it ironic that the max AC is achievable without a shield and without a full plate.
At the same time it is ironic that a Stalwart Defender (supposed to be impenetrable like a 6-feet wall) gets bonuses when using a shield, but it is bad at tanking AND at DPSing with it.

Barbarians and uber DPS combinations are far better at tanking than the Stalwart Defender.

Well, dunno if this is the way it was supposed to be.

Stalwart Defender is far better tank than a barbarian, the damage output might not be as good but the damage input is far less, with 25% DR from using a tower shield healers have easy time healing a stalwart defender.

With the new update when you intimidate with a shield in hand you'll get +100% hate generation for 12 seconds (used to be 6 seconds for a few days after the update, seems like they changed it in the hotfix?) from your Intimidating Presence (+50% if not using a shield), +15% threat from stalwart defender TOD set bonus and +20% from two item levik's defender set bonus and +30% if you have three items. If you use your haste boost on top of that after the inimidate (or just before), it will generate a lot of hate and you won't lose aggro.

"Downside" is that you won't get +5AC from shield blocking but that's really irrelevant, the 25% DR "replaces" that.

Defenders of Siberys have somewhat easier time here since they also get +50% threat from their stance and have exalted smite 1 or 2 (hard to get higher due to very high AP requirements of DoS), but they're extremely starved on feats.

If you didn't dump strength all the way (who does that anyway?), you should be able to hold aggro easily with the proper weapon, say a mineral 2 khopesh, dwarven axe or a bastard sword maybe (dwarven axe and bastard sword get glancing blows if you have two handed fighting feats and you're using them with a shield).

I don't have experience with a stalwart defender myself, this is based on my experiences with my DoS since the update, I used the holy sword scimitar on suulomades doing about 30-40 damage on a non-crit, about 80 on a crit and occasionally around 300 with my exalted smites but they ran out very fast since I only have 6 of them and it takes a minute to get 1 back. The group composed of two barbarians, many shotting ranger, melee rangers, fighters and rogues, no one was able to get my aggro.

Do note that suulomades starts using the binding chains after he comes down from piking, if you're not confident with your hate generation, you should ask the party to stop beating when you get chained because the chains will affect your rate of attack *significantly*.

Regarding AC, a stalwart defender should be able to get to around 80 with some not-very-hard-to-obtain gears, but any higher than that is not very relevant anymore, in my opinion.

Edit: I think this change made tanks a lot more fun to play.

[fedechicco]

Stalwart Defender is far better tank than a barbarian, the damage output might not be as good but the damage input is far less, with 25% DR from using a tower shield healers have easy time healing a stalwart defender.

With the new update when you intimidate with a shield in hand you'll get +100% hate generation for 12 seconds (used to be 6 seconds for a few days after the update, seems like they changed it in the hotfix?) from your Intimidating Presence (+50% if not using a shield), +15% threat from stalwart defender TOD set bonus and +20% from two item levik's defender set bonus and +30% if you have three items. If you use your haste boost on top of that after the inimidate (or just before), it will generate a lot of hate and you won't lose aggro.

"Downside" is that you won't get +5AC from shield blocking but that's really irrelevant, the 25% DR "replaces" that.

Defenders of Siberys have somewhat easier time here since they also get +50% threat from their stance and have exalted smite 1 or 2 (hard to get higher due to very high AP requirements of DoS), but they're extremely starved on feats.

If you didn't dump strength all the way (who does that anyway?), you should be able to hold aggro easily with the proper weapon, say a mineral 2 khopesh, dwarven axe or a bastard sword maybe (dwarven axe and bastard sword get glancing blows if you have two handed fighting feats and you're using them with a shield).

I don't have experience with a stalwart defender myself, this is based on my experiences with my DoS since the update, I used the holy sword scimitar on suulomades doing about 30-40 damage on a non-crit, about 80 on a crit and occasionally around 300 with my exalted smites but they ran out very fast since I only have 6 of them and it takes a minute to get 1 back. The group composed of two barbarians, many shotting ranger, melee rangers, fighters and rogues, no one was able to get my aggro.

Do note that suulomades starts using the binding chains after he comes down from piking, if you're not confident with your hate generation, you should ask the party to stop beating when you get chained because the chains will affect your rate of attack *significantly*.

Regarding AC, a stalwart defender should be able to get to around 80 with some not-very-hard-to-obtain gears, but any higher than that is not very relevant anymore, in my opinion.

Edit: I think this change made tanks a lot more fun to play.

This build has 30 STR when in stance, it's not dumped but it's not high. My gear was tuned to reach the max unbuffed AC and DR, the whole thing was tuned to reach the max selfbuffed AC and DR. Without epic gear I mean, i'm going completionist and i don't have time to farm epic gear.
This way i can self buff and go tanking Sully on VoD hard with pugs, no caster and no bard (and it worked too!).

The DPS of this build came from a complete TWF line, not from a high STR, it was fun to play DPS anyway. But when TWF my AC drops to 50 or so, therefore the DPS mode is useless for tanking.

It simply was a finely tuned build for tanking without having to farm a lot of stuff. Now this is not possible, cause you have to produce some DPS too, and do it while shield blocking (?!).

I'll wait to see a working basher build.

EDIT: on the DT i have exc DEX +1 to reach +9 DEX bonus (max achievable with a DT full plate, and you gotta be dwarf to have it so high) and +3 dodge (i don't have the chattering ring). If i put the hate generation there i drop 4 AC. Without epic gear there isn't much place to put everything you need.
With my single khopesh and the seeker stuff on I have around 30 dmgs per hit on sully and crit around 120, still it wasn't enough to take it away from the DPS pugs without the proper hate gear.

[Zharfie]

This build has 30 STR when in stance, it's not dumped but it's not high. My gear was tuned to reach the max unbuffed AC and DR, the whole thing was tuned to reach the max selfbuffed AC and DR. Without epic gear I mean, i'm going completionist and i don't have time to farm epic gear.

I also don't have any epic gear, strength is 32 in stance so not really all that good either ... going to TR sometime soon for a bit more fun build, still intimitank though

The DPS of this build came from a complete TWF line, not from a high STR, it was fun to play DPS anyway. But when TWF my AC drops to 50 or so, therefore the DPS mode is useless for tanking.

It simply was a finely tuned build for tanking without having to farm a lot of stuff. Now this is not possible, cause you have to produce some DPS too, and do it while shield blocking (?!).

shield blocking is pretty much outdated now, only useful in some cases where you have enough AC to be never hit and no one is hitting the thing you're tanking.

This type of character is really specialized in tanking and a lot of effort goes into finding the proper gear, maybe not a good build idea for a completionist?

I believe your build could still function as a proper intimi/hatetank with some effort towards gears but it probably isn't wise if you're going for completionist... intimitanking is not dead and it's not totally boring anymore, I think turbine did a good job with this update.

For anyone who might be planning on a build similarish to the original posters build, do remember that should not build for being a static wall of meat anymore - if you do, you will fail in your purpose... I never understood how people could find that kind of builds interesting anyway...

I wish you good luck on your way to completionist and hope you will someday find a way to build an interesting tank


Oh, paladin is definitely easier to build as a tank currently, fighter needs more gear and slightly higher damage output due to the lack of +50% hate from stance, exalted smite and divine sacrifice.

[krackythehoodedone]

An AC/intim tank is fairly easy to build. 700 hit points, 90+ AC, 47 blocking DR and mid 60,s intim would not involve a major investrment in time. Mine was 20 Dwarf Ftr Stalwart Defender.

I put epic Vambraces and epic Kundurak shield on mine. These are really easy to get because no one ever wants the bits and they drop all the time.

The downsides. By the time you have chosen all the feats/enhancements to max out this line you will have seriously compromised you DPS.

The game ATM is all about DPS.

You turn up in high end content and wear a shield you will get laughed at (not that that bothered me)

Also ive heard a lot of moaning from the preview server that intim aint that clever anymore. Not heard so much feedback since it went live apart from one guy saying it was weird.

I was going to TR mine so i could up the intim to get The Mari in EDQ2. You need 70 plus for that. However the changes recently mean ive kinda shelved him for now.