Max AC tank, is it useful?

[fedechicco]

Hello, I'm looking for a build to TR my ranger, and I wanted to tank for a while.

Mine was a ranger splashed monk with 55 AC selfbuffed in defensive fighting, so i'm quite used to a good AC, but now I'd like an outstanding AC.

I was trying to do something like this:

Dwarf Fighter lvl 20, with 6 armor mastery (fighter & dwarf) + 3 staltwart defender + 3 tower shield mastery = +10 max dex bonus with a fullplate and a mithril towershield.

The stats for this toon will be
16 str + 2 tome + 6 object
16 dex + 2 tome + 6 object + 5 level increase + 1 exceptional bonus on dragontouched armor
18 con + 2 tome + 6 object + 2 dwarf enhancements
12 int + 2 tome
8 wis
6 cha + 2 tome + 6 object

The ending stat for this toon can be (with appropriate equipment and +2 tomes and +1 exceptional bonus on dex):
24 str
30 dex (+10 dex bonus)
28 con ( about 450 HP with toughness and all, without minos)
14 int (to max out intimidate + CE)
8 wis
14 cha (for intimidate)

and the total unbuffed AC should be something like this:

10 base
+ 10 dex bonus
+ 15 dragontouched armor (with levik's tier)
+ 9 levik's mithril tower shield
+ 4 insight bonus (due to GS)
+ 5 CE
+ 4 Staltwart defencer stance (they told me it stacks with CE)
+ 5 deflection protection gear
+ 1 dodge feat
+ 3 staltwart defender enhancements
+ 3 dodge feat of chattering ring
+ 2 chaos guard
+ 1 alchemical on armor
= 72 unbuffed

+ 5 natural of barkskin (due to ranger past life)
= 77 self buffed standing

+ 6 paladin's aura
+ 1 haste
= 84 party buffed standing

+ 5 blocking ( i thought it was 2 but everybody says it's 5)
= 89 party buffed while tanking

Due to the very low strength I'll recycle my ranger tempest GS rapiers when I'll need to do dps, with weapon finesse and all the TWF feats they should do fine as they did on my dex based tempest.
I cannot put the fighter str enhancements due to the fact that i need all APs just to take the full package of armor + shield mastery + statwart defence + intimidate + toughness (and still i have to renounce to some toughness).

Intimidate will be something like this:

23 points
+ 2 cha stat
+ 13 gear
+ 2 bullheaded
+ 3 intimidation feat
+ 4 fighter enhancement
+ 6 stalt ward defender enhancement
+ 6 GS charisma exceptional object
= 59 unbuffed

+ 4 GH
= 63 party buffed

Now that i posted the build, i have a few question, because i never never played as tank before:

1) Is 63 party buffed intimidate good enough? If no, how can i achieve a better intimidate with a dwarf? I'd like to think that if you wanna intimitank there are solutions other than being human (or half-elf within a month) or using all your stats in charisma.
2) Is all that AC even useful? I'm used to fight harry or sully with approximately 55 AC, and i take damage like everyone else does, a friend of mine has a very good rogue/assassin with a desperate 28 AC and he takes almost the same damage. If I had 89 AC and blocking, would this damage be much less?
3) This build will end up with a pretty good fortitude and reflex saves, but with a very low will. Is this going to make me fail hard?
4) This build will end up with a good reflex save but without evasion at all. Is this a problem?

Since I'm a tanking noob, any suggestion is higly appreciated, I'm afraid of failing this because i won't be able to reroll since it's a TR...

EDIT:

I've been levelling this toon lately, and I have some comments about it, mainly I'm here to say that Quikster was right: this build is too low on DPS.
When the quest doesn't involve a particular kind of foes (like constructs for smiting, undeads for disruption, outsiders for banish), I am always at the mid-low top killer list.
More than this, and since now Pallys have Intimidation as class skill, I have to say that my saves are way too low. Almost never i can save against insta-death spells or Fear effects. This is something that a reliable tank/dps build must consider.

These were the bad remarks about this build, fortunately I already improved the DPS since Quikster told me that, so i'm not completely useless anyway, and with vorpals i can go a long way anyway.

Anyway this build has been really easy to level since now (i'm at lvl 13, with enough xp to get almost to 15 currently), because I'm in permanent party with a pure DPS monk (with an insanely high AC i'd say, she'll reach 88 at lvl20, she is in the high 40 now at level 13 while in pure DPS). Usually she kills everything as I try to hit something, and when she gets attacked I intimi-tank (that's the purpose of a tank right?).
On the other hand, with this exagerate AC (at level 13 i can self buff to 65 while blocking) and a good DR (some low 30ish by now), I've been able to tank every single mean boss, while my monk bring it down.

I'm very happy with this toon, i wouldn't have been if i didn't have the DPS constatly at my side.

So, to conclude, next time i'll do a tank (it'll be a pally tank next time), i'll ask Quickster.

[Odium]

You maybe better off just lesser reincarnating the ranger and starting a new tank.

i have a 15 ranger/2 monk/3 rogue build that has a standing ac of around 65 and self buffs to 70 (and that is still missing a chattering ring). Strength suffers a bit but the rogue lvls give some added dps when not the main target. I have tanked Sulu on hard several times without any problem. With raid buffs and favored enemy defense, your easily pushing over 80. I haven't taken this character to epic content yet, but i have heard ac isn't worth much there. I think you will still be doing more damage and good by swinging those rapiers than having a shield and hoping intimidate holds aggro. It can be suspect at best.

[elraido]

My paladin can get a higher str, higher hp, more ac, better saves and do around the same DPS. Needs a lot of tweeking to make it better. And even a mid 80's ac is fairly worthless in Epic.

Drop the leviks tiers. Get insite 4 on your dt armor, use chaos guards. That is +6 ac vs the +5....and you only need two things vs three.

[d4rkstars]

52 inti is enough for 99.99% of the game, but you will still no be able to tank hound of Xoriat and will have to cal lme for that


82 AC is way too much, you dont need AC like that for anything (its fun though )
even as a tank you still want to do some damages (turtle tanks (high AC-inti-shieldblock) aren't very much liked in team because they are pretty useless in most cases)

so try to find a balance between this AC and damages


to increase your inti (if yo uwant to tank HoX or Queen epic)
+15 item
SWD enhancements (+6) (i dont get you say "fighter enhancement" +4 but you dont count SWD enhancement) as a total you can have +10)
higher cha
+6 item from shroud
+2 luck skill (from head = trinket dropped in GH raid)
+3 from house deneith mark of sentinel (2 from feat and 1 from enhancement it opens)

with those you could add +20 and get the 68 you need for HoX normal

but again this only if you want to be the ultimate INTI tank, as a normal tank for dungeon or even harry, 50 is enough

hope this helps

[fedechicco]

i have a 15 ranger/2 monk/3 rogue build that has a standing ac of around 65

how do you get 65 unbuffed on a ranger? can you split it up? i'm very interested.

[fedechicco]

My paladin can get a higher str, higher hp, more ac, better saves and do around the same DPS. Needs a lot of tweeking to make it better. And even a mid 80's ac is fairly worthless in Epic.

Drop the leviks tiers. Get insite 4 on your dt armor, use chaos guards. That is +6 ac vs the +5....and you only need two things vs three.

Higher str, higher HP and more ac, can you post a link to your build? it sounds amazing!
And how's your intimidate? can you achieve a good intimidate?

[fedechicco]

even as a tank you still want to do some damages (turtle tanks (high AC-inti-shieldblock) aren't very much liked in team because they are pretty useless in most cases)

Still i will be dual wielding my rapier the same way my tempest did, it's not an uber dps but it's decent i think.

to increase your inti (if yo uwant to tank HoX or Queen epic)
+15 item
SWD enhancements (+6) (i dont get you say "fighter enhancement" +4 but you dont count SWD enhancement) as a total you can have +10)
higher cha
+6 item from shroud
+2 luck skill (from head = trinket dropped in GH raid)
+3 from house deneith mark of sentinel (2 from feat and 1 from enhancement it opens)

i cannot take the +3 deneith since i'm a dwarf, but the +6 exceptional GS and SWD are something i didn't considered. I'm modifing the post, thx.

[elraido]

82 AC is way too much, you dont need AC like that for anything (its fun though )
even as a tank you still want to do some damages (turtle tanks (high AC-inti-shieldblock) aren't very much liked in team because they are pretty useless in most cases)

I can hit a 83 non blocking ac with no buff being shorter than 1:30. It isn't enough. Trust me on this.

[EKKM]

I would drop CON and DEX to up your CHR. Your AC will be fine as will your HP. If you drop CON to 16 and Dex to 15 you can up your CHr to 12 for a +3 to intim/UMD.

[d4rkstars]

lol who cares what you can hit : / this thread isnt about pvp, or at least OP did not say anything about pvp.

so appart if you are a new raid boss i did not heard of.....



and yea fed, sorry deneith is for human only, forgot that

[Odium]

how do you get 65 unbuffed on a ranger? can you split it up? i'm very interested.

I am at work right now, but i will post it for you when i get home this evening.

[fedechicco]

I would drop CON and DEX to up your CHR. Your AC will be fine as will your HP. If you drop CON to 16 and Dex to 15 you can up your CHr to 12 for a +3 to intim/UMD.

Since with the last correction the intimidate is grown to 63 with initial 16 CHA, do you guys all agree that losing 1 AC and some 30 HP is worth +3 intimidate (from 63 to 66)?

[Thrudh]

how do you get 65 unbuffed on a ranger? can you split it up? i'm very interested.

His monk splash lets him add wisdom bonus to AC

10 Base
10 Dex bonus (30 Dex)
6 Wis bonus (22 Wis)
8 Armor Bracers (+8 is hard to find, +7 is always on the AH)
5 Barkskin spell
5 Protection Item
4 Dodge from Icy Raiments (This is a rare robe)
4 Insight bonus from a Shroud weapon (not rare, but takes some Shroud grinding to make)
3 Ranger Tempest AC (4 if you use a Shield wand)
5 Combat Expertise
1 Haste
1 Dodge Feat
1 Alchemical bonus on the robes

= 63

He may have more Dex... Airships buffs can get you another +3 stacking AC.

Having a low-mid-60s AC is excellent AC... And for a ranger/monk, only requires 1 really rare item (Icy Raiments).... plus a ranger/monk doesn't have to hurt his DPS by using a shield

[elraido]

Higher str, higher HP and more ac, can you post a link to your build? it sounds amazing!
And how's your intimidate? can you achieve a good intimidate?

I put no points into my intim....but I can look up when I get home what I can get it up to.

Stats in DoS Stance...no pots....no guild buffs etc. Just plain old stats that can only go up from there.

Str 32
Dex 16
Con 26
Int 13
Wis 20 (you can start lower than the 12 I started with, throw those points into str, dex or con)
Cha 32

Hp 525ish
Sp 677

AC break down.
10 base
3 dex
4 DoS stance
3 Chattering
9 Levik's shield
5 deflection (protection)
15 armor
4 Insight on DT
2 Chaos Guard
2 ritual
3 barkskin pot
6 Paladin aura
5 Combat Ex
----------------
71 AC

2 ranger barkskin
4 bard song
2 recitation (scrolls)
1 Haste (GS clicky)
---------------
80 AC buffed

+5 blocking

I know when i was in my guild group last night, I hit a 85 ac non blocking. So throw in another +5 for that....90.

I know there are a couple other things I am missing there. Just can't think of them off the top of my head. Main weapon is a triple pos khopesh. base crit damage is about 145+burst damage (that can hit up to around 16d6 or so). Currently working on epic chimearas fang....a dr breaking lighting II item in the hands of a pali.

[sigtrent]

AC tanks are super useful so long as you can hold agro, and it looks like your build can do that just fine.

Having done some of the math, you can hit AC values in the low hundreds if you gather absolutely everything possible. I did my math on a dwarven paladin but I think a dwarven fighter can go just a tad higher than that.

[Quikster]

You need to be able to dps more. Here is what my high ac intimitank looks like. I spend most of my time dual wielding dpsing, dropping ac gear for more dps gear.

Dont make the mistake of thinking high intimi/high ac is going to be fun to play, its not. You'll be a pile on in 99% of the content you run if you cant hit anything.

[fedechicco]

4 Dodge from Icy Raiments (This is a rare robe)
4 Insight bonus from a Shroud weapon (not rare, but takes some Shroud grinding to make)
5 Combat Expertise
1 Alchemical bonus on the robes

These are what i miss on my ranger (+13 dex bonus), so if i lower the initial dex of just 1 i can get 13 int (on a drow) to get CE.
This would make me fly from my 55 AC to 68 AC (but with -5 to hit roll and with less DPS due to AC greensteel instead of DPS greensteel) on the tempest.

Anyway this is a pretty great combo, i'll use it for my next tempest for sure! Greetings to Odium!

[Quikster]

AC tanks are super useful so long as you can hold agro, and it looks like your build can do that just fine.

Having done some of the math, you can hit AC values in the low hundreds if you gather absolutely everything possible. I did my math on a dwarven paladin but I think a dwarven fighter can go just a tad higher than that.

Yeah a bit because of the paly aura. My human can get to 107 with all the buffs possible, but ive only seen it once and never took a screenie as I was on my laptop on a whacked internet connection in mexico. I didnt want to crash at the time so I didnt take the chance lol.

[fedechicco]

You need to be able to dps more. Here is what my high ac intimitank looks like. I spend most of my time dual wielding dpsing, dropping ac gear for more dps gear.

Dont make the mistake of thinking high intimi/high ac is going to be fun to play, its not. You'll be a pile on in 99% of the content you run if you cant hit anything.

I can see your build sums up SD stance and CE, are they stackable?
I thought stances were always exclusive, like Defensive stance and CE stance.

Are they? If so i have to change again my calculations.
I'm trying to see the differences between our builds, and i see much more DPS in your but basicly the same concept.

[Quikster]

I can see your build sums up SD stance and CE, are they stackable?
I thought stances were always exclusive, like Defensive stance and CE stance.

Are they? If so i have to change again my calculations.
I'm trying to see the differences between our builds, and i see much more DPS in your but basicly the same concept.

Yes they stack.

Yes the biggest difference is mine is capable of putting out more dps. Not top dps mind you, but far from gimped either. Im not saying you cant do what you are planning, but Ive done it, having a build that is useless past turtled intimidating sucks most of the time. Especially when you can make one that can do both.

The other difference is gearing, which you can achieve with a bit of game play (or a lot depending on your playstyle )