Let me remove my loot from party chat

[Drakos]

That's why I'm quick to call bullsh*t when someone is getting pressured.

It only takes one vocal YLYC to drown out the greedy.

But if loot was not broadcast then there would be no oppertunity for others to preasure someone on their loot, that it the OP's point.

As for me, I give loot away as well. Heck if someone else needs it more than me it is the decent thing to do, but the quickest way to irritate me out of giving something to someone is harassing me about it. The loot generator is what it is. Everyone gets their share of loot each chest, it may not have been what your looking for, but you got treasure. So, sure need before greed, but I feel it is just as greedy, if not moreso, for someone to feel entitled to my loot just because I got something ther covet.

[Thargnar]

This is exactly why it's a great idea. You feel entitled to loot that isn't your's. You simply have no right whatsoever to decide if the person should have their own loot. None. It's theirs. If they let you roll on their stuff, they are being nice, not the other way around. They should not be squelched for not giving you their loot, they should be added as a friend for giving you their loot.

As a side note, to those that don't think you would miss what your mate picked up: all chests are magical: they magic the items into your pack. You can tell, 'cause looting is too fast.

When did I say I feel entitled to someone else's loot? I'm not entitled to anything unless it has my name on it in the chest, but if I pull something I can't use or will get very little use from I feel obligated simply by common courtesy to give it to those who can and will. When did I say *I* have the right to decide what happens to their loot? Oh, yeah, nowhere. I do have the right to decide how I perceive that person from that point on though. What I want to know is who doesn't share that same feeling of obligation and team play. If someone pulls something and has a good reason for it, the idea of the meleeing wiz taking the sword of shadows for instance which has been latched on to, that's fine. In fact, I *said* that's fine when I mentioned odd builds that can use it, and a meleeing straight wiz is not your run of the mill wiz build, but it's viable and a legitimate reason. If you've got the stones to raise a few eyebrows and then explain yourself go for it. If you can't be arsed to explain yourself then deal with it.

The only reason to conceal what you are looting is if you have a reason to suspect social backlash because of it.

Implementing ninja-looting for BTC items so greedy and uncharitable players don't have to deal with the repercussions of their actions is just cowardice. Like I said, it's a social game, if you don't want to deal with the social aspect of it then get used to soloing, or better yet go back to baldur's gate, Minsc never moans about you horking the best swords for your 8 st elven wiz.

[Cyiwin]

The 'entitlement card' is about about overplayed as the 'race card' in real life. There are plenty of situations where its totally legit but everyone jumps on it first without reading context. What you are missing is that he doesnt dispute the right of the person to take any loot assigned to their name... In fact the overwhelming majority of players in DDO have never disputed that fact.

What the 'fair play committee' wants to know is does the other person play by the same rules. If your rules are 'loot everything, dont share', then you should expect the same treatment back. Hiding the looting of bound items lets them play by all rules. There is no community consequence for their actions if they choose an attitude different from the consensus. In a social setting the paraiahs are usually not simply innocent victims. There is always a reason for why they are not welcome. While that reason does not have to be logical, ethical, or moral, it does exist. In the DDO community those tend to be people that are not willing to follow the 'need before greed' tenent when in raids.

Overplayed or not it seems to be true. I originally posted on the basis that we could all agree that our loot was ours. It really shouldn't matter if someone else thinks they can use it more than you could. If we don't all agree on this then I have to take a step back. Introducing a 'Fair play committee' injects opinions of how someone should loot. Arguing with opinions has always been exponentially more difficult than facts for me.

[Dragonhyde]

Eh the mentality of I need that more will always exist....personally I either shortman raids or go only with an established group of friends if I know there is something I want that will cause a whiny outburst if I pull and loot it.

[CaptainFatpants]

/not signed

Ethical, socially-conscious people understand raid loot etiquette. The rest, well, are on squelch lists.

1. Loot in your name is yours. Loot it and vendor trash it, leave it in the chest, or loot and use proudly, but be aware of the consequences of option 2.
2. If you have a soul and don't want or need the item, you will offer it:
   
   1. ...to guild members or friends.
   2. ...up for roll.
3. If it is not in your name you can:
   
   1. Wait for someone to put it kindly up for roll (Rolling without a roll being called for is impolite.)
   2. Finish out and move on.

Regardless of what you do with your loot, expect social ramifications from your actions whether that be added or diminished respect (a commodity in short supply it seems). This happens regardless of the final destination of the loot.

As to the OP's suggestion that loot should be hidden, I cannot agree. I really like to see that stuff actually drops (I am looking at you Torc!). I also think it thematically makes sense. We have a chest with 12 twinked out adventurers going over the chest. We should see everything in there.

These are just my opinions, I don't expect everyone to agree (but, it would be nice).

[Nite_Prowler]

I still haven't seen anyone give me a rational reason the option of broadcasting my loot isn't mine.

Its fairly obvious that you have never played DnD prior to this game. Because in Dungeons and Dragons, when someone opens a chest, the loot is seen by everyone. There is no feasible way for you to get your loot, without everyone around you seeing what you have. Even if you wait to pull your stuff till last, everyone else will see whats in the chest, when they go to grab their stuff.

If you don't wanna share the loot .... don't. Its not a hard concept to grasp. Open chest, click loot all before you inspect it. That's the closest way to get your loot without any nagging.

Asking the Dev's to code this non problem is borderline rude/selfish in my opinion.

[Tsuarok]

Its fairly obvious that you have never played DnD prior to this game. Because in Dungeons and Dragons, when someone opens a chest, the loot is seen by everyone. There is no feasible way for you to get your loot, without everyone around you seeing what you have. Even if you wait to pull your stuff till last, everyone else will see whats in the chest, when they go to grab their stuff.

This isn't DnD. It's based on DnD, but it's not it. How do you divide up loot in DnD anyway? Back when I played (2nd edition) there were no rules for it (that I remember, it has been a while).

Anyway, the OP was trying to, say, make a house rule, that no one sees the loot. One can change the rules of a game if they want, and if such a change is an improvement, then the game just got better.

That's why they make new editions (well, that and to sell you a new set of rulebooks)

Asking the Dev's to code this non problem is borderline rude/selfish in my opinion.

He thinks it's a problem. So he asked. Not really seeing the rudeness here.

"Hey Devs, here's an idea to improve your game."

"YOU SON OF A *!@%$!!!!!"

(edit: weird formating issues)

[Tsuarok]

The 'entitlement card' is about about overplayed as the 'race card' in real life. There are plenty of situations where its totally legit but everyone jumps on it first without reading context. What you are missing is that he doesnt dispute the right of the person to take any loot assigned to their name... In fact the overwhelming majority of players in DDO have never disputed that fact.

I don't know what the race card is. Your complaint about the entitlement card sounds like you agree with me, though from the rest of your post I assume you don't.

He say's that the right belongs to the person, but that we're rude for doing it and that we must suffer the consequences.

That is not a right. Rights should not be able to be punished or they are not rights.

When did I say I feel entitled to someone else's loot? I'm not entitled to anything unless it has my name on it in the chest, but if I pull something I can't use or will get very little use from I feel obligated simply by common courtesy to give it to those who can and will. When did I say *I* have the right to decide what happens to their loot? Oh, yeah, nowhere. I do have the right to decide how I perceive that person from that point on though. What I want to know is who doesn't share that same feeling of obligation and team play. If someone pulls something and has a good reason for it, the idea of the meleeing wiz taking the sword of shadows for instance which has been latched on to, that's fine. In fact, I *said* that's fine when I mentioned odd builds that can use it, and a meleeing straight wiz is not your run of the mill wiz build, but it's viable and a legitimate reason. If you've got the stones to raise a few eyebrows and then explain yourself go for it. If you can't be arsed to explain yourself then deal with it.

The only reason to conceal what you are looting is if you have a reason to suspect social backlash because of it.

Implementing ninja-looting for BTC items so greedy and uncharitable players don't have to deal with the repercussions of their actions is just cowardice. Like I said, it's a social game, if you don't want to deal with the social aspect of it then get used to soloing, or better yet go back to baldur's gate, Minsc never moans about you horking the best swords for your 8 st elven wiz.

OK, maybe I should rephrase that. I feel that people are entitled to their own loot. I also feel that keeping what is yours is not selfish. It is not charitable, but it is not selfish. Especially in a circumstance like this where everyone got stuff.

That you even call picking up your own loot ninjaing (sp?) demonstrates that you do not feel that it is theirs.

And it should require no explanation. It should raise no eyebrows. It is simply no one else's concern unless that person decides they don't need it and offer it up for roll.

And the reason this was suggested is to avoid said social backlash. Because that backlash is unjust. Even more so when the community is united in that backlash, because that's when it really begins to affect the player. As Fomori says:

In a social setting the paraiahs are usually not simply innocent victims. There is always a reason for why they are not welcome. While that reason does not have to be logical, ethical, or moral, it does exist. In the DDO community those tend to be people that are not willing to follow the 'need before greed' tenent when in raids.

The lack of the need for a logical, ethical, or moral reason behind this discrimination means that the system needs to be regulated to ensure fair treatment of all players, not just the majority.

[MeliCat]

[QUOTE=RoboVanguard;3266814]

2) Let's people know what kind of person they're running with. I sure as hell don't want to run with a caster who will loot levik's shield, a caster who loots the seal of earth/chattering ring, or in general looting things that have 0 benefit to their class (certain builds excepted, of course, but there's no way a pure 20 sorc is going to have a use for a seal of the earth). What will result is that nothing will ever get shared because people will just claim they got trash.

QUOTE]

See you're the kind of person who it would exasperate me to play with - what business of yours is it what loot drops for anyone else? You have no idea what reasons someone may choose to loot things for. This idea of it's your *right* to tell someone else what they do with their loot is just such 2 year old behaviour. Get over it. It's not yours. Move on.

To the OP, I kinda like your idea to avoid the sort of nonsense that the poster I have quoted above perpetuates. However my first thought is that such a tickbox to suppress loot pulls being displayed in anyone else's windows except your own, may lead to a problem with certain needed quest progression items like keys that come from chests. And it's kind of funny everyone standing around going 'who has the key?' and useful when you can go back through the logs and see who looted one.

[Angel_Barchild]

I have a simple and perfect solution to the "get off my stuff" vs "share". Play with people who think the same way you do. The person with the star states clearly before the raid begins (most of this is about raid loot cuz it's btc) we roll on loot you can't use, or take everything, or somewhere in the middle. If you disagree you just find another group that plays with your style. How has everyone missed this solution? Seriously, the group leader makes the rules and if you are free to play by his rules or leave. This is great for everyone! There are so many people that play DDO it is not hard to find a group that plays the same way you do. Everybody wins!

Oh and as to why everyone gets to see your loot in chat, because everyone is there, and can see your loot. DDO may only be based on D&D but it's one of the things they kept.

[Cyiwin]

I have a simple and perfect solution to the "get off my stuff" vs "share". Play with people who think the same way you do. The person with the star states clearly before the raid begins (most of this is about raid loot cuz it's btc) we roll on loot you can't use, or take everything, or somewhere in the middle. If you disagree you just find another group that plays with your style. How has everyone missed this solution? Seriously, the group leader makes the rules and if you are free to play by his rules or leave. This is great for everyone! There are so many people that play DDO it is not hard to find a group that plays the same way you do. Everybody wins!

Oh and as to why everyone gets to see your loot in chat, because everyone is there, and can see your loot. DDO may only be based on D&D but it's one of the things they kept.

It's not about "get off my stuff" vs "share". It's more like "my loot my rights" vs "my loot your rights". The party leader chooses to roll on the items I can't use... The problem is who determines if I can use it or not? Do you really think hidden loot would mean nothing got shared? The vast majority would allow for a roll on an item they truley could not use.

As for your second part, I've seen that come up a lot. If they are in your party then they automatically see your loot because they are there. That is not always the case. Some of us old timers tend to split up in quests we know like the back of our hands. Do you see my items if you not facing me when I pull them? The arguement has too many holes. If you are there and are looking in the chest before I grab the items then fine, see my stuff. I've allready stated that as a given. But be at the chest, not behind me if you want to see my stuff so bad.

[Angel_Barchild]

It's not about "get off my stuff" vs "share". It's more like "my loot my rights" vs "my loot your rights". The party leader chooses to roll on the items I can't use... The problem is who determines if I can use it or not? Do you really think hidden loot would mean nothing got shared? The vast majority would allow for a roll on an item they truley could not use.

As for your second part, I've seen that come up a lot. If they are in your party then they automatically see your loot because they are there. That is not always the case. Some of us old timers tend to split up in quests we know like the back of our hands. Do you see my items if you not facing me when I pull them? The arguement has too many holes. If you are there and are looking in the chest before I grab the items then fine, see my stuff. I've allready stated that as a given. But be at the chest, not behind me if you want to see my stuff so bad.

Umm... I didn't say anything about hidden loot not getting shared. I didn't say yes or no on weather it should be hidden or not. I simply gave an elegant solution to what seems to be a long running problem. Loot rules should be decided by the person leading the run prior to entering the quest. If you feel that only you should decide what is useful for you, then join groups where the leader states that putting it up for roll is your choice. I don't see why people do not understand this. There are no "loot rights" there is simply a persons choice of who to group with. If you don't want have to put stuff up for roll then join a group that leaves it your choice, or a group that says keep everything, or something in the middle. How hard is that?

I did not make the argument that they should see your loot because they are there. I just stated the reason they can. I make no argument about weather it is a good reason, just that it is the reason. DDO was created on the idea that people would be mostly running in groups and therefore people in the party can see what you loot. People running around separately and the like does not change the reason it was done this way.

[Thargnar]

He say's that the right belongs to the person, but that we're rude for doing it and that we must suffer the consequences.

That is not a right. Rights should not be able to be punished or they are not rights.

Social condemnation is not punishment. We have the right to free speech, which entitles you to say some pretty unsavory things. The fact that you have the right to do it does not mean there will be no hard feelings all around, it means you are ostensibly safe from tangible repercussions, nothing stipulates that those who do not agree with your position will be all cheers and smiles with it because it's your right. Westboro Baptists? It's their right to spew hate and intolerance, just as it's anyone else's right to detest them for it and most definitely not ask them to the next neighborhood bbq. As for the game, the loss of other players goodwill is hardly a tangible punishment, there's nothing official about it, you just get that as a consequence of being an arse in whichever way you choose, pretty much like it happens in real life.

OK, maybe I should rephrase that. I feel that people are entitled to their own loot. I also feel that keeping what is yours is not selfish. It is not charitable, but it is not selfish. Especially in a circumstance like this where everyone got stuff.

That you even call picking up your own loot ninjaing (sp?) demonstrates that you do not feel that it is theirs.

And it should require no explanation. It should raise no eyebrows. It is simply no one else's concern unless that person decides they don't need it and offer it up for roll.

And the reason this was suggested is to avoid said social backlash. Because that backlash is unjust. Even more so when the community is united in that backlash, because that's when it really begins to affect the player.

Loot ninjas have been around forever, in the context I use it in it's not looting what belongs to other people, but looting surreptitiously something you'd rather not have anyone else notice. One second it's in the box, next it's gone, gee, hope nobody noticed that. Again, I do not disagree it is their loot, to do with as they will, but what they choose to do with it (pull it, reallocate it, leave it) should be public knowledge. If you you have an AA in group with all the goodies to make it epic but want to pull the only thornlord that dropped on your cleric for knocking the occasional ranged lever down and because it looks cool, go for it, just have the stones to do it with others watching.

Remember, the only thing I care about is Bound To Character items, things that are sometimes marginally useful or utterly worthless for certain builds but can be a difficult to acquire key piece in another's build. If I know there is a toon that has a proclivity for hoarding crud they have no use for or will barely use at all over another party member's need then I want to know so I don't waste time raiding with them with the basic assumption that Need Before Greed is in effect. Like it or not this is a social game with a strong group dynamic and it was designed to be so, there is as well an unwritten social contract of need before greed, and if you choose to ignore it then you are free to do so, just as everyone else is free to formulate whatever opinion of you they divine from your actions.

It seems that there are two very divided opinions here, one side that thinks Need Before Greed is actually important and an obligation to their fellow groupmembers, and another that feels they shouldn't be held accountable for anything and that their groupmembers can get bent if they need something that the looter just happens to think is shiny. I'd say it's pointless for me to expound any further, obviously I'm not going to change anyone's opinion who's already polarized on the subject and I've seen no argument put forth that will change mine.

[Cyiwin]

It seems that there are two very divided opinions here, one side that thinks Need Before Greed is actually important and an obligation to their fellow groupmembers, and another that feels they shouldn't be held accountable for anything and that their groupmembers can get bent if they need something that the looter just happens to think is shiny. I'd say it's pointless for me to expound any further, obviously I'm not going to change anyone's opinion who's already polarized on the subject and I've seen no argument put forth that will change mine.

I think this represents where this thread went wrong. I could turn it back to you and say there are two very divided opinions here, one side that thinks they need my stuff more than me and the other thinks they shouldn't be harrassed for looting what belongs to them. Of course saying that would make me feel better but I wouldn't be able to change any opinions that way.

Options are a good thing. If there was an option to uncheck outgoing loot, it may add to the enjoyment of the game to many people. If you want your loot in party chat don't uncheck it. Either way, if I had an item in the chest that I had no use for and it was a useful item for someone else I would gladly put it up for roll and I'm sure most others would too. The difference is I chose if my item is useful to me, not someone else.

[khaldan]

The difference is I chose if my item is useful to me, not someone else.

Don't you make that decision whenever you get an item?

I mean really, everything in this thread seems to be stuff that's happened after you loot the chest. This isn't going to change how anyone acts, and people will still be pressuring to get loot before you take it out.

[Cauthey]

If you squelch me because I took something out of a chest that was reserved for me - then good! I'm not sure that I wanted to party with you ever again either, you commune loving, entitlist, whiny bastage!

Still, I think that having a couple of gameplay checkbox options ("Mask regular loot," "Mask raid loot") would be neat. It's probably not something I would trouble myself with setting, though. I particularly liked where you could set it in your gameplay options, and then clear them when you have the treasure chest open in case there is something that you want to share.

[dormetheus]

I think it's against the spirit of DDO. I've been on both sides in a party when I have looted something that someone thinks is cool (and I didn't think twice about it) and they mention it. So I hand it over.

I've also been on the other side when I think something is cool, and they kindly hand it over (refusing payment).

The thing is, if you need or desire the item in your chest, then feel free to loot it, no excuses.

However, think about it next time someone pulls an item that you really, really need (and they really, really don't). What if they just pulled and vendored it when four or five other people have been grinding that raid into nubs just to see it drop?

And, sometimes people just don't know what an item is worth to the raid. I've gotten some GREAT offers on stuff that people have seen in my chest, and I didn't think much of the item.

[hermespan]

Seeing what other people got was always part of D&D.

Even now I'm ok if I get nothing in a raid as long as SOMEONE got somthing, so seeing that loot is part of what keeps me engaged.

I second this... I don't care what I get or don't get but it's cool to see that at least someone got something. That's why I raid every 3 days. Last night I pulled a Sheild from the Reaver. I'm a TWF tempest ranger so I put it up for roll. Maybe it was karma, maybe not, but I pulled a pair of gold goggles that give true seeing and blindness immunity later, then I pulled a pair of Tharne's bracers in VoD.

Both of those are useful to my build so I kept them.

On the other hand, I've run shroud over 80 times in the last 2 months, just to get a shard of power and lost 2 rolls on them. I've got all first and second tier ingredients, and half the third tier done for Min II. Oh well. Will I be upset if the guy that has 4 greensteels already, pulls one and doesn't let me roll on it? /shrug. He doesn't need it, and it's more useful to me than him, but it's HIS loot. I will keep my trap shut. I don't care if he goes straight to the vendor and sells it for 49 plat or whatever.

People cry about loot too much. If you didn't get what you wanted, keep on raiding. Don't be a crybaby about it.

People should bite their tongue. It's a stupid game. Some people act like they are losing their retirement or something over a ring in a game.

[Cauthey]

Best all-around suggestion I could think for this:

Check box in User Interface to stop loot broadcasts. This means your loot does not show up in the list of things in the chest for other people, and when you take something out of the chest it does not broadcast via chat.

When this option is enabled, a small checkbox is enabled next to your pieces of loot in the chest. When clicked, it makes the item visible to all members of the raid regularly.

This allows for situations like Baubles and raid loot you do not wish to keep but would like to put up for roll; people can actually see the item in the chest and know you're not just pulling their leg before they roll.

This does not solve any problems of "people handing it off to their friends" because that is NOT a problem that can be solved. The game gives your loot to you, and as such it's never going to force you to put it up to roll. Likewise, that problem will never go away by human nature.

As I mentioned before, I do think that this would be a neat option. Also, you could have an allowance that would allow those on your friends list to see the loot.

"Mask all regular loot from all"
"Mask all regular loot from non-friends"
"Mask all raid loot from all"
"Mask all raid loot from non-friends"

[Fomori]

I think this represents where this thread went wrong. I could turn it back to you and say there are two very divided opinions here, one side that thinks they need my stuff more than me and the other thinks they shouldn't be harrassed for looting what belongs to them. Of course saying that would make me feel better but I wouldn't be able to change any opinions that way.

The problem with your statement is that its all conjecture. We say 'we dont think we need your stuff more than you', you seem to use that statement as your argument. Also, this has nothing to do with ME specifically getting an item which you also seem to be missing. If I'm on a caster, you loot a cleric item on your fighter, I'm still judging you for your actions.

You are correct in that people should not be 'harassed', but you dont seem to understand that harassing is defined as continuous or repetitive. If I blacklist you and dont ever want to deal with you again that is the complete opposite of harassment.

The lack of the need for a logical, ethical, or moral reason behind this discrimination means that the system needs to be regulated to ensure fair treatment of all players, not just the majority.

How do regulate a community... by coming up with the rules that are agreed to and followed by the most people. Are you are saying that everything should be equal to the lowest common denominator? My point of the comment was that some people do discriminate for no reason. However, only their peers in a social community can call them out on that. That is the regulation that you need. We dont need an outside enforcer telling us what is right or wrong for our community.