Pure Cleric - Healer/Caster - please critique

[Foxmoon]

I'm fairly experience with the low to midgame, and have put together this build. It's a non-melee Cleric...healer/caster hybrid, leaning toward healer somewhat.

Please let me know what you think...particularly of the feat and enhancement choices/progression.

Thanks!

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Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 220
Spell Points: 1591 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 6
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma             16                    20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         5                     6
Diplomacy             3                     5
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     5
Heal                  4                    11
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            3                     5
Jump                 -1                    -1
Listen                4                    11
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                  4                    11
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      5                     7

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 14 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III


Level 16 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II


Level 19 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV

[Bloodlance]

Something i did fast, just looked into the resists and well , reflex is kinda ... not there and no balance, one reflex check and you go down to backside.

this is just something i did fast, maby it makes people talk more about the build,

are you aiming to raids or just normal-elite questing with friends ?

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Test Mini I 
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 180
Spell Points: 1379 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 10
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            16                    16
Constitution         10                    10
Intelligence         11                    12
Wisdom               17                    22
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    14
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         0                    20
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  3                     6
Hide                  3                     7
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                 -1                     1
Listen                3                     8
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     1
Spot                  3                     6
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble                n/a                   3.5
Use Magic Device      2                    11

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)

The problem might be on skills, like UMD, how much will you need in the end ? prolly if you go human you can use that extra feat to do UMD+3 also some human racial stat focuses to get better stats, would mean you can go non even numbers some more. to get more points to CON ie.

Halfling, with 17 cleric, 2 monk and 1 rogue is interesting if you max UMD with every level and do just concentrate,balance and UMD. there is a build in the Cleric build thread, its interesting, and needs only minor tweaks.

[r3dl4nce]

Both builds miss TOUGHNESS feat, and both have a too low CON.
For a full healer/caster you must start with WIS 18, rest in CON.
TOUGHNESS feat is NEEDED. The best race would be human for the free bonus feat.

[Bloodlance]

Both builds miss TOUGHNESS feat, and both have a too low CON.
For a full healer/caster you must start with WIS 18, rest in CON.
TOUGHNESS feat is NEEDED. The best race would be human for the free bonus feat.

i have to disagree, the hybrid 17/2/1 build does not need toughness feat at all. you can do it with 10 or 12 con as starting con, is no biggy.

Pure builds needs higher con and feats etc.

This will be my next aim, (not ready yet 100%)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
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Butsy2 
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(2 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 178
Spell Points: 1076 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 15
Will: 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    13
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         10                    10
Intelligence         11                    12
Wisdom               17                    22
Charisma             12                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                  7                    7
Bluff                 1                  1                    1
Concentration         0                 19                   19
Diplomacy             1                  1                    1
Disable Device        5                  5                    5
Haggle                1                  1                    1
Heal                  3                  6                    6
Hide                  7                 10                   14
Intimidate            1                  1                    1
Jump                  5                  5                    7
Listen                3                  6                    8
Move Silently         7                 10                   12
Open Lock             7                  8                    8
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  1                    1
Search                5                  5                    5
Spot                  3                  6                    6
Swim                  1                  1                    1
Tumble                4                  5                    5
Use Magic Device      5                 24                   27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

i have not yet decided on the feats, somehow i need to get one more feat in and take something out, hmm

prolly going to take UMD+3 feat away and replace.

[r3dl4nce]

i have to disagree, the hybrid 17/2/1 build does not need toughness feat at all. you can do it with 10 or 12 con as starting con, is no biggy.

Low hp = dead cleric. Dead cleric = none wants you.

You know that NOT taking toughness you are losing 42 hp yes (23 from toughness, 20 from racial toughness I and II)

CON 10 and no toughness. You will not go far. Well. Perhaps you will. As a soulstone in the backpack of a better build char

12 str too low for a melee, 17 wis too high for a melee specced. skill focus umd on a cleric it's a total waste. IMHO your build is a total mess, but play as you like

[Bloodlance]

Low hp = dead cleric. Dead cleric = none wants you.

You know that NOT taking toughness you are losing 42 hp yes (23 from toughness, 20 from racial toughness I and II)

CON 10 and no toughness. You will not go far. Well. Perhaps you will. As a soulstone in the backpack of a better build char

12 str too low for a melee, 17 wis too high for a melee specced. skill focus umd on a cleric it's a total waste. IMHO your build is a total mess, but play as you like

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...=1#post2516588

Also i already said i am going to take that UMD+3 feat away, and yes i will, thanks.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

i have to disagree, the hybrid 17/2/1 build does not need toughness feat at all. you can do it with 10 or 12 con as starting con, is no biggy.

Hit Points: 178

178 HP! Lol. Please stay away from my groups. I prefer people that can survive more than one hit.

OP, please do not listen to this guy's advice. It is far from good.

[Bloodlance]

178 HP! Lol. Please stay away from my groups. I prefer people that can survive more than one hit.

OP, please do not listen to this guy's advice. It is far from good.

it does not include enchantments or anything just skills and feats and stats.

i aim to this:

Hit Points
158 class levels
20 heroic durability
10 favor
80 con
20 minos
20 toughness enhancements
5 tortoise
35 greensteel
30 falselife
378 hp

--

Also i adviced him to take more CON to his build as pure cleric, but your opinion is that its a bad advice, gee... a bit conflicting isnt it

[r3dl4nce]

20 toughness enhancements

you can't take this if you don't take toughness feat.

For the rest, HP is a buffer, if you can manage to survive with a little buffer, as you like, when a disintegrate from Horoth hits you for 450 hp damage, well... OPS! and horoth recover 25% his life when a party member dies...

[Bloodlance]

you can't take this if you don't take toughness feat.

For the rest, HP is a buffer, if you can manage to survive with a little buffer, as you like, when a disintegrate from Horoth hits you for 450 hp damage, well... OPS! and horoth recover 25% his life when a party member dies...

something i typed on my previous post(s)

"" Something i did fast, just looked into the resists and well , reflex is kinda ... not there and no balance, one reflex check and you go down to backside.

this is just something i did fast, maby it makes people talk more about the build,

are you aiming to raids or just normal-elite questing with friends ? ""

before going to YOU MUST HAVE discussions, we might wanna know 1st if this guy is even EVER going to go vs Horoth.

With 378 HP + raid buffs, where would your HP be ?

[r3dl4nce]

Starting to fix you build is easy.
11 CHA - 8 INT - 14 CON
remove the useless skill focus umd and take toughness
82 HP more for you. Why don't do it?

[Bloodlance]

Starting to fix you build is easy.
11 CHA - 8 INT - 14 CON
remove the useless skill focus umd and take toughness
82 HP more for you. Why don't do it?

it wont give you the hp you need, or does it?

what i can recall , Horoth can do way over 500 (on normal 360 is disintigrate ~or so)dmg with Disintigrate, so even with all that, you will still die to it.

I liked to play with UMD in beta a long time ago, and i like to play with it still(personal preference), atm i personally prolly wont ever going to raid the high level raids with my toons, ive got enuff raiding in every MMO ive played (and thats a lot) to last a lifetime.

i have a dwarf cleric that is max con, max wis, rest to cha, and yes it has a huge hp pool and it will survive anything that hits it i think, but lets be real, who enjoys playing a heal bot that can only push 1-5 buttons and nothing else ?

i am pretty sure that a raid that knows what it is doing, can do 100% of the content with even non optimal builds.

[phalaeo]

Remove Mental Toughness feat
Less CHA
More CON
Points in Balance- needs LOTS more
No points in Concentration? BIG mistake
Quicken should be taken around when you get Blade Barrier- not at level 18
Needs Toughness

[Bloodlance]

Remove Mental Toughness feat
Less CHA
More CON
Points in Balance- needs LOTS more
No points in Concentration? BIG mistake
Quicken should be taken around when you get Blade Barrier- not at level 18
Needs Toughness

Agree, so prolly he would be looking at

9 int, tome +1 on lvl 1
and then Fiddle around CHA to boost CON, hmmm perhaps even drop 18 WIS to 17 if he goes Human to get 1 more feat ?

[Foxmoon]

Remove Mental Toughness feat
Less CHA
More CON
Points in Balance- needs LOTS more
No points in Concentration? BIG mistake
Quicken should be taken around when you get Blade Barrier- not at level 18
Needs Toughness

Less CHA, more CON, got it.

I didn't spend any of my skill points in this build...that's why they are so low.