Give us some clues on Bard Changes!

[moorewr]

You mean the vast majority of which are DPS, and very few of which are meant to intimitank?

Why not? Self-healing, good skills, high CHA, self-displacing.. sounds like a winner to me..

[geezee]

Not sure why the hate - there are lots of good Intimi-bards out there. Here is an example:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218706

Yeah, that's a nice build. I wonder what percentage of bards bother with AC these days?

The hate is because intimidate is a useless skill for the huge majority of bard builds. It's hard for me to understand why someone would come on here saying that the intimidate addition of warchanter 2 is pretty nice, when there are probably 100 other things that would benefit warchanters more.

[geezee]

Why not? Self-healing, good skills, high CHA, self-displacing.. sounds like a winner to me..

Just curious if you've ever even played a bard?

[chaosp1]

Well I have an idea for virtuoso III.



Song of Pandemonium
Benefit: Expend a use of Bardic Music to cause all nearby creatures hearing it to be thrown into confusion for 1 minute plus 6 seconds per level.



I noticed a lot of spells mention CONFUSION state but currently it's not implemented in the game.

basically while confused a creature or player goes through 1 to 4 states at random for the duration, rerolling in this table about every 5 seconds

1) Act as normal
2) Become CHARMED
3) Become FEARFUL
4) Become plagued by indecision (stand there doing random emotes for 4 seconds)



The only thing that needs to be discussed is how a "charmed" player should act and i've mentioned this before , I think there 2 valid options, the one of taking control of the player by the ai and operating it isnt reasonable or fun.

option 1) A charmed player cannot hurt the creature that charmed it, all beneficial effects that affect allies also affect the charm causing creature. (auras, area of effect buffs etc)

option 2) A charmed player cannot hurt the creature that charmed it. If you are hit by an allies attack/spell you get the "betrayed" debuff, if you do the same to an ally you put the "betrayed" debuff on them. (only lasts for 10 seconds)
(betrayed debuff causing target to take more damage (of all types), -4 to saves, -4 to ability checks, -25% fortification)

[Calebro]

After having a good night´s sleep over the Reckless-song i have come to the conclusion that i wouldnt want this song on my characters (except portal bashing in shroud). ....
....

I really dont want to have a stern talk with every pug Warchanter i quest with, raid or normal questing, to not use his "cool new song", ever.

We will repeat this part for you.
If you enter any defensive stance, (defensive fighting, combat expertise, etc) the song's benefits end for you. There is no need to have a stern talking to with any warchanters.
If you don't want it, end it yourself. That's why they designed it this way.

Incidentally, this would be a great mechanic for the Rage spell to implement. That wold save the trouble of having individuals who didn't want it to leave the rest of the group when it was cast or suffer the AC loss that they didn't want.

[Sarnind]

great eladrin , u have broken a warchanter pre, 5 ap for what? 10 hp? +2 intimidate? fail

[psteen1]

WC II is not underwhelming but it is not fun to play either.

and is this thought based on your vast experience playing a WC 2? Oh wait, no one has played it yet...

[78mackson]

We will repeat this part for you.
If you enter any defensive stance, (defensive fighting, combat expertise, etc) the song's benefits end for you. There is no need to have a stern talking to with any warchanters.
If you don't want it, end it yourself. That's why they designed it this way.

Incidentally, this would be a great mechanic for the Rage spell to implement. That wold save the trouble of having individuals who didn't want it to leave the rest of the group when it was cast or suffer the AC loss that they didn't want.

WoW, this buff will instantly top the charts in the most annoying buff category... maybe they should implement some new game options:
[x] never show the spell camoflage
[x] turn off eventual Inspire Recklessness.
[x] play bard songs at double speed with Benny Hill themed music.

[Razcar]

Capering song -> will this work on undead and construct when you have appropriate enchantment (music of the maker/death)?
I would like to see gigant skeleton dancing :P

I doubt they made "Dance" animations for the monster types that couldn't be danced at the time they were introduced in the game. Such as undead and constructs. Although it would be awesome if zombies did the Thriller dance and liches would do some popping

[elujin]

pritty happy with the virt pre i hope the healing is worth it though unlike the mecanics repair skill and the dancing song doesn't take ages XD i do hope for a tier 3 debuff slow song mebey somthing like that

[Razcar]

To bad bards are not dev's pets like monks, who had improvements and additions in about every update since they were introduced (granted, they were gimpy at introduction). If that was the case we surely would see new, completely remade PrE's in Update 8. Shintao? Someone didn't like it? Eladrin to the rescue. But since it's bards we are talking about I'm afraid we will be stuck with this.

[Samadhi]

great eladrin , u have broken a warchanter pre, 5 ap for what? 10 hp? +2 intimidate? fail

Given that warchanter I's +2 to damage was generally considered the far and above winner for most raid groups, I'm surprised they made WC II as good as it is TBH.

[Krag]

and is this thought based on your vast experience playing a WC 2? Oh wait, no one has played it yet...

I don't need to play it to see that my WF THF warchanter will love +5% doublestrike. So will all WF melees I play with.

[Irinis]

Yeah, the intention was that the DC is charisma, although you'd probably need to equip wis or int item to get to 16-18 as required by the particular spells. (Or buff the stat in whatever way).


I used the theory that the spellsinger is doing wizard-like spells based on intelligence, because although he's got the charisma for sorcerer casting, he doesn't share the "draconic bloodline" or whatever. Wizard magic is something anyone can learn just from training (if they're smart enough).

I would not want to "borrow" spells from other types of casters if it means I have to gimp my already gimp Spellsinger EVEN MORE to afford high INT *and* WIS... JUST to be effective as a SPELLSINGER.

As it is already, Bards get Rapier proficiency but my Spellsinger HAS to use Master's Touch for a two-hander because there's no way she can ever afford the dex or the TWF feats to actually USE RAPIERS. (Not even on a TR2!)

Bards are a half broken class already and from this pathetic attempt at Tier2 PrEs it looks like the devs don't even play anything but WF Warchanters.

Not cool. Very disappointing, in fact.

[Samadhi]

Bards are a half broken class already

If by broken, you mean very powerful, then I guess we agree...

[Valindria]

Initial impressions of Vit II:

- Base bonus - Meh. 2 more songs, perform, 10% longer, etc is Really lame compared to 10 HP/Med Armor/1 Martial Wep or 100 SP +2 UMD. Also the reqs are the same as the bonus (extra song, lingering song).

- Sustaining Song - Depends on a lot of things. It depends how much it heals, how fast is "fast-healing". Overall I think what is the point of this? If SS can regen spell points they could just cast a cure spell or UMD a heal scroll. If it's better then the clerics aura people will be ****ed.

- Song of Capering - I am unhappy with this one. I could take Sphere of dancing at level 10. A single target dance song doesn't seem worth it to me. The only advantage I can think of is 12/x bard/x could end up with an single dance song close to OID.


I would rather see:

Song of Capering:

Active - Expend a use of Bardic Music to make a single enemy dance helplessly. A successful Will save negates this effect. (DC is equal to a Perform check - Otto's Nearly Irresistible Dance.) This is the same as listed.

Passive: Your enthrall now has a chance to dance targets who fail a save(10 + 1/2 bard level + CHA or (perform*1/3) or something to balance and increase with power). So if target is enthralled, also check to see if they dance.

- Overall I just don't see enough love for Virtuosos. Maybe in game they will be better but on paper it looks like after U7 it still WC>SS>Virt. I am interested in seeing how it plays out.


All PrEs overall - I am a little disappointed. I think there are some cool things and I love to see bards get some focus in this game. I feel like there is a lot of negative comments and concerns going around which is good to see people care about bards. I am hopeful that tier 3 will be amazing.

[BelVic]

Song of Heroism- GH on all? Assuredly immunity to fear, at least. Non-dispellable GH is interesting though, despite not being too useful on Amrath if that's the case.

Song of Capering- Otto's Sphere of Dancing or Otto's Irrestable dance, costs 1 song to use.

Song of Arcane Might- +10% potency? Please? I'd be fine with just 10% =p

Inspire Recklessness- Gives Frenzy to all who hear it (which is really just +2 strength). Maybe rage, though.

Spellsong Vigor- Hm... Perhaps a Divine Vitality Sort of deal? That's a tough one. Maybe an HP buff, too, though.

Sustaining Song- My guess? Gives regeneration, somewhat akin to Radiant Servant, but likely not as powerful.

They at least sound cool! Tyvm Eladrin! Now how bout some sorc-age? =D

Seems like his guess from 9/13 was very close to results

[Angelus_dead]

I would not want to "borrow" spells from other types of casters if it means I have to gimp my already gimp Spellsinger EVEN MORE to afford high INT *and* WIS... JUST to be effective as a SPELLSINGER.

An Owl's Wisdom wand doesn't gimp you. The most that's likely to happen under that suggestion is that the spellsinger needs to swap a hat before casting cleric-like magic. 8 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 2 yugo = level 8 divine spells covered.

[Tuney]

Virt path sounds like the path I'll keep... Though The extra song 3 requirement got me quaffing. I have to get an extra song to get even MORE songs.

Depending what targets can be hit with Song of Capering... I'd still use it, mostly depends on how long of a time I'd have to worry about not doing anything with my lute out. Sustaining song... I'd probbly keep going all the time what with Elyd Edge being my primary weapon, I got lots of songs I burn hehe.

But as it is... Makes Virts more 'healer focused' , Warchanter 2 mostly got some love for Pure bards but for splash bards not so much, and Spellsinger ... got more liked in Caster only parties.

[Carpone]

Is this +1 bonus to caster level also going to make heighten bug out like the epic staff of arcane power does with its +2, causing a significant loss to spell DCs? If so this needs to be fixed immediately, I'd hate to think bards would play a song that would make casters significantly worse.

We've fixed that.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!