A quick question: who is a better healer (Cleric or favored soul)?

[Correlan]

Hi,

A quick question: who is a better healer (Cleric or favored soul)?

Best,
M.

I see there are a few differences of opinion with regards to which class is the better healer. IMO, i'd say niether is better, I have both, Cleric and FvS.

I generally use no pots on either, even if the quest/raid is going to hell in a handcart. People can argue builds, feat selection, pot usage etc etc, what i personally think is, it's not the amount of sp pool, but knowing when to heal and when not to. Generally i'd say it was the player that makes the class.

If you put either class in the hands of a good player, they'll have no problems healing any quest/raid. You put either class in the hands of a not so good a player..........i'll let you decide the outcome.....

It's pretty much horse's for course's imo.

Now, if you'd asked which was more fun.......

[Looonatic]

I disagree you added wings, I like mine with lemon pepper or mango habenero sauce.

Yum!

[Mark2422]

Wow, ok well in terms of healing, your all wrong. Ill put it down in point form to make a quick summary;

I fail to see how you can say i was wrong when clearly, i said now that clerics have there PrE they beat the FvS, which is what you also said.. Hmmm.

But that is the only reason as the difference, in terms of healing with a FvS that is speced for healing is very little.

I have 5 capped clerics and 2 capped FvS. All built in similar style but with slight differences. NONE are built for any melee **** and all are built to be healers first and formost.

So lets look at the difference between my FvS and Clerics. Spell selection. Truth is out of all the spells i use on my clerics, there is only one that i dont have on my FvS and that is greater dispell magic. Not exactly a healing spell is it. I have all my buffs, my two mass heals, heal spell and all cureative spells. Yeah a FvS does have alot less spells, but if you know your quests and know your class, trust me, you can have every spell needed on a FvS.

Healing power. Well like i said, i got 5 capped clerics and 2 FvS and NONE have enpower healing. Its a waste. The only people you cannot heal to almost 100% with one normal heal are Barbs and WF. But even them you can heal more than enough. So in my view, enpower healing is overkill in most situations. Wow you can have a big number flash in green. Especialy since if your healing in a raid, you arnt letting people drop far below 50% hp before you heal them. so healing 600+ points of hp on someoen thats lost about 200hp is just sillyness.

The only other difference (not counting the PrE) is as mentioned, the sp. sp is a big factor when using mass heals on raids. You maximise and enp them, and they are freaking expensive. Yeah you can down ya pots on a cleric, but im an EU player and im sorry but drinking more than 5 pots on any raid is bad to me. Its not neccassary and if you have then there is smthing wrong in the group. Either your dps is weak or your sp management and healing skills need working on. And thats a fact.

As i said in my first post. Ive not been able to try the cleric PrE yet as my toons are still half way between Euro and US. But from what i seen and herd, the Cleric does now have the advantage. But no they did not have before the PrE and it could well change again when FvS get there PrE.

[Minttunator]

Everybody keeps mentioning wings as the main reason to play a FVS. What are these wings, do they mean the ~1-second animation when a FVS uses Leap of Faith? Is that it?

Sorry for the noob question, I can't really see what all the fuss is about.

[Tumarek]

...
Healing power. Well like i said, i got 5 capped clerics and 2 FvS and NONE have enpower healing. Its a waste.
....

Doesnt empower healing also work on the aura and burst from the pre? Not really sure...

[The_Great_Samulas]

This is an old debate that crops up every few weeks. I am mainly responding to what I view as bad advice below:

I have 5 capped clerics and 2 capped FvS. All built in similar style but with slight differences. NONE are built for any melee **** and all are built to be healers first and formost.

I would encourage you to diversify your healers and explore options rather than building them all the same way. You don't have to specialize in healing to solo heal raids. It may be that not having empower healing is the root of your problem though. I have it on all my healers (2 clerics and a FS, all capped and TRed one).

So lets look at the difference between my FvS and Clerics. Spell selection. Truth is out of all the spells i use on my clerics, there is only one that i dont have on my FvS and that is greater dispell magic. Not exactly a healing spell is it. I have all my buffs, my two mass heals, heal spell and all cureative spells. Yeah a FvS does have alot less spells, but if you know your quests and know your class, trust me, you can have every spell needed on a FvS.

The more you restrict your role the less spells you need. FvS have to do this. On my FvS, I made him a melee with healing and no offensive casting at all. Level 6 and 8 are bad spell levels. I couldn't figure out a way to have satisfactory offensive casting, healing, and melee on him. Two mass heals is not enough for high end stuff. Sure you can do shroud, but who cares about that. When the shadows swarm the group in ToD part II, they are dead with you as the sole healer. Last one I did, the shadows swarmed the group, the FvS died, and we completed, because I had 3 mass cures to cycle through continuously (everyone will be dead by the time you get a mass heal off).

Healing power. Well like i said, i got 5 capped clerics and 2 FvS and NONE have enpower healing. Its a waste. The only people you cannot heal to almost 100% with one normal heal are Barbs and WF. But even them you can heal more than enough. So in my view, enpower healing is overkill in most situations. Wow you can have a big number flash in green. Especialy since if your healing in a raid, you arnt letting people drop far below 50% hp before you heal them. so healing 600+ points of hp on someoen thats lost about 200hp is just sillyness.

You are missing the whole point with empower healing. It makes your MCCW and MCSW more mana efficient than mass heal. Not to mention it enables spot healing with scrolls, because you aren't casting all the time. It gives your better timing with the masses so you are more efficient. You don't have to use quicken, even in epic dragon raids. Not to mention, you can use MAX and EMP healing with the lower level cures with an activating noxious embers for even cheaper healing.

As i said in my first post. Ive not been able to try the cleric PrE yet as my toons are still half way between Euro and US. But from what i seen and herd, the Cleric does now have the advantage. But no they did not have before the PrE and it could well change again when FvS get there PrE.

You have to have empowered healing to have the PrE:

Cleric Radiant Servant I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 16 action points
Requires One of: Cleric Divine Cleansing I, Cleric Divine Light I, Cleric Divine Healing I, Cleric Divine Vitality I, Cleric Divine Might I
Requires All of: Empower Healing Spell, Cleric Life Magic II, Cleric Improved Turning I, Cleric Heal II
Available to Cleric class level 6
You are a beacon of light against the darkness. You count as 1 level higher when casting Positive Energy or Light based spells and gain the ability to expend a Turn Undead attempt to create an aura of positive energy that heals you and nearby allies over time and damages nearby undead. Any undead that you successfully turn with your Turn Undead ability are destroyed instead of frightened, and your Turns regenerate over time (1 every 2 minutes).

As far as the debate of FvS or clerics being a better healer. I think you are asking the wrong question but a couple points:

1) Clerics get a unique capstone that can open new strategies and save raid/quest wipes). The FvS one just saves you heal scrolls (even then you have to keep Max and Emp on or it isn't even worth using - and this costs alot of mana if you use anything other than heal and mass heal).

2) Clerical empower healing is 75%

3) FvS advantage in mana is 600-700, not 1000. The difference in mana is only important in unskilled players. Skilled ones rarely need that extra mana, and when they do pots are there (you have the bauble, vile blasphemy, new red fens clickie, etc. as well). I typicallly nuke at the end of a raid to burn my excess mana on my cleric.

[Hokonoso]

coming from someone with a lvl 20 fvs and more deleted clerics then i can count (dont ask me to heal your raid as i will say no), i will say the cleric is the better healer because they get every spell and the same casting speed as a fvs. the reason sorcerers are better than wizards is because they cast faster and have faster cooldowns, fvs does not have this advantage and thus lose to clerics as mana is infinite due to pot usage, thus it just comes down to PrE's and spell selection, right now fvs has neither so they are way behind clerics in healing.

[AylinIsAwesome]

coming from someone with a lvl 20 fvs and more deleted clerics then i can count (dont ask me to heal your raid as i will say no), i will say the cleric is the better healer because they get every spell and the same casting speed as a fvs. the reason sorcerers are better than wizards is because they cast faster and have faster cooldowns, fvs does not have this advantage and thus lose to clerics as mana is infinite due to pot usage, thus it just comes down to PrE's and spell selection, right now fvs has neither so they are way behind clerics in healing.

I believe this argument was already mentioned earlier in the thread, and dismissed for several reasons, including no one has infinite pots, and if you need more than a couple you should seriously look at your playing style.

[AylinIsAwesome]

A couple notes on the notes...

1) Clerics get a unique capstone that can open new strategies and save raid/quest wipes). The FvS one just saves you heal scrolls (even then you have to keep Max and Emp on or it isn't even worth using - and this costs alot of mana if you use anything other than heal and mass heal).

3) FvS advantage in mana is 600-700, not 1000. The difference in mana is only important in unskilled players. Skilled ones rarely need that extra mana, and when they do pots are there (you have the bauble, vile blasphemy, new red fens clickie, etc. as well). I typicallly nuke at the end of a raid to burn my excess mana on my cleric.

As a level 20 FvS that does not have the CLW capstone, I've never used it, though to be honest I've never used more than say 10 Heal scrolls in a raid. I don't often run with Clerics, but the main place I've seen the DI capstone be useful is in the Abbot raid (though it can be done without). If I'm missing another place let me know. Either way, I think both capstones add a little bit extra to both classes, but neither is broken without it.

I will agree that the extra SP isn't needed most of the time (exceptions would be something horrible happening, like the caster on an island DCing in eVON6 and all the trash breaking dance at once, though even then it's hard to recover from), but then you don't play a FvS for the extra SP. Like having better nuking from Empower instead of Empower Healing, or DR 15/Adamantine.

2) Clerical empower healing is 75%

This is what I believe cancels out the extra SP on a FvS, the extra large heals from a Cleric that are more efficient in the long run. You go through yours slower, but I have more of it to spend. The extra 25% I haven't seen render me incapable of healing effectively.



But The_Great_Samulas was correct; OP you were not asking the right question. The right question (in my mind) would be asking yourself which you would find more enjoyable.

[Darkrok]

Both are perfectly viable and their efficacy will vary based on who's playing them. If I'm behind the wheel then the FvS will do better in typical quests if I have the Capstone heal. I run with 75% clickies/pots going, empower, and maximize on all the time. If I need to do damage with blade barrier/cometfall then I want those on anyways. My main heals - heal/mass heal aren't affected by them. And if I have Empower Healing turned on as well that makes for a pretty beefy CLW - about 70'ish with much larger crits. In a normal quest where the damage coming in isn't that bad I pretty much ONLY use the capstone to the point where group members will ask me for a heal during the battle if I don't notice their poison/stat damage. All of that capstone healing frees up the sp's for spamming mass cures if the stuff hits the fan or for using extra damage spells otherwise.

[The_Great_Samulas]

As a level 20 FvS that does not have the CLW capstone, I've never used it, though to be honest I've never used more than say 10 Heal scrolls in a raid. I don't often run with Clerics, but the main place I've seen the DI capstone be useful is in the Abbot raid (though it can be done without). If I'm missing another place let me know. Either way, I think both capstones add a little bit extra to both classes, but neither is broken without it.

I would agree, neither is broken. After all, same raids before these capstones were here. More capabilities is always what I am after though. New strategies expand your abilities to make a functional raid group. The cleric capstone is actually very useful. Here are a few examples of saving a raid and a new strategy:

EX: Dragon raid on epic - some newb ranges the dragon on the way up to it. The dragon infernos the group and kills everyone. EXCEPT the wizard who has the capstone on him, who manages to raise the clerics with ease (because he has ZERO agro due to the capstone effects). There is no commetfalling because he has zero agro. He sits behind the rock and hits raise dead scrolls seven times with no problems at all.

EX: ToD. You can use any tank to take on Horoth with a secondary agro tank, as long as the primary has DI. If he fails a disintegrate roll, agro immediately transfers to the secondary. He is healed back up (Horoth gains no life, because he didn't actually die), doesn't need rebuffing, and just reacquires agro (easy if intimidating in the first place).

There are many more examples. I have seen the capstone save at least 6 raids that I am aware of (probably many more that I am not). This is in addition to it just making things easier to recover from what would be a death. It just takes knowledge of the game and some thought of how to apply the capstone.

[Dylvish]

Hi,

A quick question: who is a better healer (Cleric or favored soul)?

Best,
M.

The one who is having more fun playing his class.

[EKKM]

I fail to see how you can say i was wrong when clearly, i said now that clerics have there PrE they beat the FvS, which is what you also said.. Hmmm.

But that is the only reason as the difference, in terms of healing with a FvS that is speced for healing is very little.

I have 5 capped clerics and 2 capped FvS. All built in similar style but with slight differences. NONE are built for any melee **** and all are built to be healers first and formost.

So lets look at the difference between my FvS and Clerics. Spell selection. Truth is out of all the spells i use on my clerics, there is only one that i dont have on my FvS and that is greater dispell magic. Not exactly a healing spell is it. I have all my buffs, my two mass heals, heal spell and all cureative spells. Yeah a FvS does have alot less spells, but if you know your quests and know your class, trust me, you can have every spell needed on a FvS.

Healing power. Well like i said, i got 5 capped clerics and 2 FvS and NONE have enpower healing. Its a waste. The only people you cannot heal to almost 100% with one normal heal are Barbs and WF. But even them you can heal more than enough. So in my view, enpower healing is overkill in most situations. Wow you can have a big number flash in green. Especialy since if your healing in a raid, you arnt letting people drop far below 50% hp before you heal them. so healing 600+ points of hp on someoen thats lost about 200hp is just sillyness.

The only other difference (not counting the PrE) is as mentioned, the sp. sp is a big factor when using mass heals on raids. You maximise and enp them, and they are freaking expensive. Yeah you can down ya pots on a cleric, but im an EU player and im sorry but drinking more than 5 pots on any raid is bad to me. Its not neccassary and if you have then there is smthing wrong in the group. Either your dps is weak or your sp management and healing skills need working on. And thats a fact.

As i said in my first post. Ive not been able to try the cleric PrE yet as my toons are still half way between Euro and US. But from what i seen and herd, the Cleric does now have the advantage. But no they did not have before the PrE and it could well change again when FvS get there PrE.

Empower heal on a cleric is important for a few reasons:

1 - It hits for 75% and costs 4 sp to do it (with items and enhancements)
2- It opens up the RS line

With a 75% empower heal a cleric does not need to maximize his cure spells and saves 21 SP per cast. An empowered, superior ardor mass cure critical is almost as good as a mass heal and takes a fraction of the time to cast. Alternate that with mass heal and no one should ever die and you shopuld never need a mana pot either.

Also, the aura and the burst open up which heal about 900 hp per aura or 400 per burst. A cleric with a minimal invesmet in CHR will have 6 of those at least at 20.

IMO the cleric is the superior healer hands down because of that. The FVS is much more versatile however and probably more survivable.