WF health point bar color

[phalaeo]

If their health is low...guess what? Their health is low. Their race is irrelevant as to whether or not they need a heal.

And my question still stands- why do you object so much to it? Seriously, and no disrespect intended- I just want to understand.

You are correct when you say- health is low, need a Heal/Recon.... my argument is that it comes in terms of time management and priority for a Divine raid healer.

I run a full complement of raids almost twice a week, sometimes more and have healed every raid in the game. I'm not saying that makes me MORE qualified than anyone else, but it does make me qualified. If something as simple as a slight colour change would make it easier to heal a raid, why would you (or anyone) be against it?

Heck, I wouldn't even care if it was UI toggleable- it may not be a benefit to you, but it sure would to me.

[lhidda]

Heck, I wouldn't even care if it was UI toggleable- it may not be a benefit to you, but it sure would to me.

UI toggleable: /signed
Very good idea. I would benefit a lot from it.

[Wizzly_Bear]

BTW, i propose the WF hp-bar color to be a mixture between black(oil) and red(blood), since they are organic/anorganic hybrids.

Warforged are constructs. They are not organic.

And my question still stands- why do you object so much to it? Seriously, and no disrespect intended- I just want to understand.

I have 4 reasons.

1) I don't like it. Why should I (and other WF) be singled out?

2) I see it as a waste of time for Turbine (ie little to no benefit and possible large negative drawback (see #s 3 and 4)).

3) Warforged have enough stigma associated with them already (though not nearly as bad as it once was) and this would likely serve to further more stigma.

4) I see it as yet another way to dumb down the game. I was sick of that 2 years ago, and it just won't stop happening.

If they do this then I hope with all the hope Turbine has never allowed me to have that they go beyond this and do others as well. Give monks and humans a unique color to since they have access to healing amp enhancements for instance.

You are correct when you say- health is low, need a Heal/Recon.... my argument is that it comes in terms of time management and priority for any raid healer.

See red.

I explained my logic - what's yours? If you're healing then you have either reconstruct or heal, not both, so why does it matter? If an arcane is delegated to heal a WF then they know who their target is and don't need some special flag.

[lhidda]

Warforged are constructs. They are not organic.

1. I told they are hybrids.
2. You are right with them being constructs.
3. I choose red/black because red is the standard color used for fleshies, but actually I am happy with any different color.

Text citation from http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Race:Warforged official homepage

"Originally intended as nothing more than mindless war machines, the warforged acquired sentience due to the arcane experiments intended to improve these weapons of destruction. Through these experiments, the warforged moved away from being true constructs and became alive. The basic and most plentiful warforged are just slightly larger than humans. Larger varieties of warforged-like constructs can also be encountered, as these remnants of the Last War still exist."

How you interpret the sentence: "Through these experiments, the warforged moved away from being true constructs and became alive. " ? And what is the explanation they can be healed from healing spells.

Regards

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Id quote Wizzly up there but I'm on my iPhone and it's a pain in the ****.

In a six man party, as others have said, the WF is the big wooden guy. Your divine healer either heals them or doesn't. Or the sorc/wiz has no problem watching them. Different colored health bars are a non-issue. He's the big bald dude that doesn't look like he's made of flesh.

In a raid (I'm thinking VOD, TOD here) there will be a dedicated sorc/wiz to heal the WF tank. Any other WF will fall under mass heals.

Where's the benefits to the proposed change in any of those scenarios?

I only see it as leading to more prejudice and making it easy for gimptastic healer to avoid healing WF. Nothing else.

[lhidda]

I only see it as leading to more prejudice and making it easy for gimptastic healer to avoid healing WF. Nothing else.

It could also be seen as an invitation to arcane to assist healing and saving some pots for divines.

Just tellin, I play a WF fighter. Often i come in the situation that neither the cleric nor the wiz is healing/repairing until my hp drops down to 10%. Then one of em has the heart to heal/repair or not. In midlvlquests the cleric need tons of SP to heal, where the wiz need only few to repair. Making the wiz/sorc clear that a repair in this case would be more beneficial than a heal from the divine is my intention.

So, when the arcane sees that a WF is low on HP he might send a repair cuz he easily sees (with slightly hp-bar color change) he is WF.

[Wizzly_Bear]

1. I told they are hybrids. They aren't.
2. You are right with them being constructs.
3. I choose red/black because red is the standard color used for fleshies, but actually I am happy with any different color.

Text citation from http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Race:Warforged official homepage

"Originally intended as nothing more than mindless war machines, the warforged acquired sentience due to the arcane experiments intended to improve these weapons of destruction. Through these experiments, the warforged moved away from being true constructs and became alive. The basic and most plentiful warforged are just slightly larger than humans. Larger varieties of warforged-like constructs can also be encountered, as these remnants of the Last War still exist."

How you interpret the sentence: "Through these experiments, the warforged moved away from being true constructs and became alive. " ? And what is the explanation they can be healed from healing spells.

Regards

What was the point of quoting that? It confirms what I said - that they are constructs - constructs given sentience.

And they benefit from healing spells because Turbine decided they should. PnP WF are immune.

[Wizzly_Bear]

It could also be seen as an invitation to arcane to assist healing and saving some pots for divines.

Just tellin, I play a WF fighter. Often i come in the situation that neither the cleric nor the wiz is healing/repairing until my hp drops down to 10%. Then one of em has the heart to heal/repair or not. In midlvlquests the cleric need tons of SP to heal oh really? since when?, where the wiz need only few to repair repair spells are no cheaper than heal spells. Making the wiz/sorc clear that a repair in this case would be more beneficial than a heal from the divine is my intention and what if said arcane doesn't have repair spells?.

So, when the arcane sees that a WF is low on HP he might send a repair cuz he easily sees (with slightly hp-bar color change) he is WF its pretty hard to mistake a WF - its pretty obvious. Are you playing blindfolded or something?.

Red

[lhidda]

What was the point of quoting that? It confirms what I said - that they are constructs - constructs given sentience.

And they benefit from healing spells because Turbine decided they should. PnP WF are immune.

Ok, you are right in this point, but I don't care at all cuz I didnt want to discuss what WF are or not (in pnp or ddo).

More discussions later, cuz i am offline a while.

[phalaeo]

I only see it as leading to more prejudice and making it easy for gimptastic healer to avoid healing WF. Nothing else.

When I've already explained that I prefer it because it would *HELP* me heal WF? I'm not sure if you are calling me gimptastic or not- if you are, you're way off base. I heal everyone equally, provided that they are not being stupid. Yes, you can check my post history for this.

I explained my logic - what's yours?

It's hard to type down every little incidence that I can remember with a detailed example- I'll try, but for most cases, I'd have to ask you to trust that it's a combined feeling from my experiences.

Attempt 1:
TBH, sometimes I forget who is WF and who isn't- at least on Argo, it seems as though every caster is WF and self-repairing... occasionally, it slips my mind when people are all spread out running in the Sub, or in raids with lots of AoE effects where I can't see- I'll see the caster take a little damage and think, no biggie- they'll recon themselves.... until they don't. Many people play with hotkeys and F1-F12 party members- I cannot do that, so I spend a great deal of time looking between bars, cooldown timers and the actual screen. Having a visual reminder on the bar itself would be like a sticky note for me- "Oh, that Sorc is fleshy... keep an eye on him"

Attempt 2:
The way I play my Clerics, I am very conscious of the HP range of different classes. Most Barbs have a decent chunk of HP, but they also Frenzy/Death Frenzy and can take a bunch of damage as well. If I'm throwing mass heals on the group, it does heal WF for a decent chunk, but I've found there is a slow creep- for every three masses I throw, I may need to throw a single target when they are not topping off all the way with a mass Heal.

As mentioned, I do a lot of juggling during raid healing to take care of the needs of a party- with a WF Barb, those "intermittent" single targets NEED to be cast off of my SP bar- they are ineffective to Heal via scrolls. A Human Barb OTOH, usually has less overall HP than a WF barb, but often has at least the first tier of Healing Amp. When playing around with quick insta-second decisions about how best to use my SP bar, I'd rather see a visual indicator that I can bounce a quick scroll onto the Human and know that I have to SP Heal the WF.

Keep in mind with this example that I'm often having to scroll heal casters who generally have to be single targeted because they are apart from the melees. Scrolls have a 6 second cooldown.... it's all about split second choices.

This may not be the way everyone heals- I understand that. I've found my style and what works for me and I'm happy with it... I'm SP efficient and even though I raid heal on a Clonk with less SP than a pure Cleric, I'm often left with a little SP and I rarely need to drink pots, except in maybe some Epics and Elite raids.

I'm just saying that a simple implementation like this would make it more convenient for me to manage my SP and direct priorities in my Heals. It's better for the parties I heal, Fleshy and WF alike.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Phaleo - I won't nitpick each thing via quotes, but suffice to say (and you'll have to trust me on this one) - you haven't reached your potential yet. Through your frequent raiding you've gained some competence it sounds like, but you're still "learning the ropes". I don't mean this in a mean or condescending way as all of us were (or are) new at some point, just to let you know you still have some growing to do. I have confidence that you'll get there. I could enumerate all the justifications, but you'll see them in time.

[SisAmethyst]

3) Warforged have enough stigma associated with them already (though not nearly as bad as it once was) and this would likely serve to further more stigma.

This is an important point and maybe one of the reason why

...Just tellin, I play a WF fighter. Often i come in the situation that neither the cleric nor the wiz is healing/repairing until my hp drops down to 10%. Then one of em has the heart to heal/repair or not...

and to be honest, most of the Wizards and Sorcs out there like to play Wizard or Sorc because they want to invest their SP into killing something and not in playing a healer. A Sorc probably even not have the spell learned and the Wizard usually has a other spells prepared then a reconstruct, heck maybe even not learned and inscribed at all.

I don't mind that much a color change, but I not think it is a good idea as a change of that would lead to the way that Clerics no more feel responsibility to heal them at all but will point with the finger to the Wiz or Sorc and the Wiz and Sorc will refuse to heal as he will burn through his SP already by doing his regular job. Nonetheless that there is the rule that always each player is responsible of his own (Yesterday we finished some Quests in the Vale on Elite with a full melee group and no healer at all)

Also a Warforged should always take the Healing Amplification Enhancements and together with the proper equipment they can be healed like a fleshy and therefore is no reason to worry about a different color. If a Wiz is smart and check out if there are WF in the group and actually prepare the spells he will know who is the WF as he need to be aware and look, however in a big fight as a Wiz you usually concentrate on other things then checking every second all the health bar of party members (yes it is on my screen but not in the focus).

I guess if the Cleric not heal you, he is either not aware that WF with the right Enhancements can be healed nearly like anyone else and just heard the bad story's from the past or he noticed that you not even invested a single AP to get that healing Amplification and therefore refuse to play Nanny bot.

[Spisey]

If you can find my sorc 3 rooms ahead of you, ask me for a recon. I don't dislike playing healer on my caster but I do have to be reminded from time to time if it is not a recon only type situation like reconning the main tank in raids.

Of course, if I'm 3 rooms ahead of the party, you probably didn't need that recon all that desperately anyways!

[SisAmethyst]

Attempt 2:
The way I play my Clerics, I am very conscious of the HP range of different classes. Most Barbs have a decent chunk of HP, but they also Frenzy/Death Frenzy and can take a bunch of damage as well. If I'm throwing mass heals on the group, it does heal WF for a decent chunk, but I've found there is a slow creep- for every three masses I throw, I may need to throw a single target when they are not topping off all the way with a mass Heal.

Dunno but I guess that a WF Frenzied Barb may have way more then 600HP and then indeed not heal full with one or two heals. But then that is not due to the fact that they healing that much worse then a fleshy but as you only see the red bar but not the total number of HP and from the HP they just have plenty. Cleric is a stressful job - at least for me - as this watching and taking care who need what. Trying to conserve mana by not over-healing too much and still be sufficient to have all on high HP is a tough job. The thinking to not need to heal a WF Sorc as they can repair themselfs sound appealing to conserve additional mana but in the end I stopped bothering about that as it makes a tough job even more complicated to need to distinguish between players. But I not capped a cleric till now so I not know how the big raids are going and you know that probably much better then me. Anyway, for me a different color would not give me any advantage as I would still treat them all the same.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

thats still the same issue as wiz/sorc which dont repair.
They think it is not their responsibility to repair/take curse pots.
12 people in a group = 12 personal realities how to solve a quest (some of em feel responsible to remove their own curses and some are not).

Since the whole group benefits from sorcs/wiz that repair (especially in low and mid lvl quests) when i play my wiz i feel responsible to repair WF.

thx for interst,
lhidda

Someone who doesn't think its their problem to remove their own curse can have their curse removed for them when they die.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Someone who doesn't think its their problem to remove their own curse can have their curse removed for them when they die.

z'actly

[lhidda]

Someone who doesn't think its their problem to remove their own curse can have their curse removed for them when they die.

Why u dont start a thread to propose that curse icons are only visible to the player not the group?

[Wizzly_Bear]

Why u dont start a thread to propose that curse icons are only visible to the player not the group?

I would sign that til my fingers bled, and then some more until I wore them down to the nubs.

[skyking613]

I like it. Sometimes its hard to keep track of who is what when the going gets tough. And especially the curse idea. when everyone is packed together it is impossible to tell he actually has it.

[falcon2030]

Warforged are constructs. They are not organic.

Just a little question here,

they are constructed from metal and wood correct?

Then they are organic INorganic hybrid because wood is organic

Just thought you should be aware that if you intend on insulting people you should be aware of the facts

Just Sayin