Worst of the Worst Spells

[Scraap]

Create Undead:
Cost (SP): 5
Cost (material component): 1
Effectiveness: 1.5
Fix: I understand steps needed to be taken to keep Create Undead from being abused, but we can still fix this nifty and potentially very fun spell. If the created undead would just not turn against you (very quickly most often), that might fix it. I personally feel the undead should be stronger too.

Going way back into pre-history here (2.5), but didn't True Necromancer stop undead turning on you? Might be a useful way to buff the master end of Pale Master, say grants the ability to firmly control 1 additional undead per tier (so max 3 from create undead) while creating additional ones releases your hold on them.

[Wizzly_Bear]

I was just going to start a thread on this myself.

So I'm encouraging participation in this thread!

Personally, I'd like to see something like:

- spell name
- 1-5 rating on spell cost (1 being bad, 5 being appropriate)
- 1-5 rating on spell effectiveness
- comments

I will limit my comments primarily to Wizard spells of levels 1-7 (with a few notes on 8 and 9) as I'm just returning from a long break and there may have been some changes during that time that altered effectiveness of spells I haven't been using since I've been back. Also, it will be a general catch-all rating as cost is a factor in determing a spell's effectiveness. If you do less damage with more sps then its obviously less effective. Finally, these ratings will not be based on effectiveness at end game solely, but rather weighted more towards how effective they are for their level in comparison to other spells of that level as well as how effective they are when you first get them, and, of course, their longevity of use.

Notation shall be as follows

Level ? spell
Random spell (rating at level) (longevity rating)

I will give...
1's to spells that are, "extremely ineffective,"
2's to "have some use but much better options are available,"
3's to, "situationally effective," or, "useful depending on playstyle,"
4's to, "solid tactical spell,"
5's to, "you'd be stupid not to use this spell,"

with an additional rating of
0's to, "has absolutely no use whatsoever," or, "you'd be stupid to use this spell"

Note that some spells change drastically.

*Disclaimer: these ratings are in regards to wizards. Sorcerers have much fewer options available and so many ratings are, and should be, very different between the two.

*Disclaimer 2: I will try to be impartial as to my own personal playstyle when making these judgements and will accord any small possible use to a spell that may be given it.

Level 1 spells
Acid Spray (4) (1)
Burning Hnds (4) (1)
Cause Fear (3) (1)
Charm Person (4) (3)
Chill Touch (3) (3)
Detect Secret Doors (3) (3)
Expeditious Retreat (4) (4)
Feather Fall (3) (3)
Grease (3) (3)
Hypnotism (4) (3)
Jump (2) (5)
Mage Armor (3) (0)
Magic Missile (4) (3)
Master's Touch (3) (3)
Merfolk's Blessing (3) (3)
Niac's Cold Ray (4) (1)
Nightshield (5) (5)
Obscurring Mist (3) (2)
Ray of Enfeeblement (3) (4)
Repair Light (3) (1)
Shield (5) (2)
Shocking Grasp (4) (1)
Sleep (3) (0)
Sonic Blast (3) (1)
Summon Monster 1 (3) (3)
Tumble (3) (3)
Level 2 spells
Bear's Endurance (4) (3)
Blindness (4) (2)
Blur (3) (4)
Bull's Strength (4) (3)
Cat's Grace (3) (3)
Command Undead (3) (3)
Daze Monster (2) (0)
Eagle's Splendor (3) (1)
Electric Loop (4) (1)
False Life (3) (3)
Flaming Sphere (3) (1)
Fog Cloud (3) (2)
Fox's Cunning (4) (2)
Ghoul Touch (4) (1)
Glitterdust (4) (4)
Hypnotic Pattern (4) (2)
Invisibility (5) (5)
Knock (3) (3)
Lesser Death Aura (3) (2)
Melf's Acid Arrow (4) (4)
Ooze Puppet (3) (4)
Otto's Resistable Dance (3) (2)
Owl's Wisdom (4) (1)
Repair Moderate (3) (1)
Resist Energy (3) (5)
Scare (3) (2)
Scorching Ray (4) (4)
See Invisibility (3) (1)
Snowball Swarm (4) (2)
Spawn Screen (3) (3)
Summon Monster 2 (3) (3)
Touch of Idiocy (3) (3)
Web (4) (5)
Level 3 spells
Acid Blast (4) (3)
Chain Missiles (4) (3)
Deep Slumber (3) (0)
Dispel Magic (3) (2)
Displacement (4) (5)
Fireball (4) (3)
Flame Arrow (2) (2)
Frost Lance (4) (4)
Halt Undead (3) (3)
Haste (4) (5)
Heroism (3) (1)
Hold Person (4) (2)
Lightning Bolt (4) (3)
Magic Circle (3) (3)
Protection from Energy (3) (2)
Rage (when not broken) (4) (4)
Rage (when broken) (3) (3)
Ray of Exhaustion (3) (3)
Repair Serious (3) (2)
Sleet Storm (3) (4)
Slow (3) (3)
Stinking Cloud (3) (3)
Suggestion (4) (3)
Summon Monster 3 (3) (3)
Water Breathing (3) (3)
Level 4 spells
Acid Rain (2) (1)
Bestow Curse (3) (3)
Burning Blood (1) (1)
Charm Monster (4) (4)
Contagion (4) (3)
Crushing Despair (3) (3)
Death Aura (3) (3)
Dimension Door (4) (4)
Enervation (4) (4)
Fear (4) (3)
Fire Shield (4) (4)
Fire Trap (1) (1)
Fire Trap if Maximize and Empower affected it (4) (3)
Force Missiles (3) (3)
Ice Storm (4) (3)
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability (3) (3)
Negative Energy Burst (3) (3)
Phantasmal Killer (4) (2)
Remove Curse (2) (2)
Repair Critical Damage (4) (3)
Shout (3) (1)
Solid Fog (when not broken) (4) (5)
Solid Fog (broken) (1) (1)
Stoneskin (3) (3)
Summon Monster 4 (2) (2)
Symbol of Flame (2) (0)
Wall of Fire (5) (5)
Level 5 spells
Ball Lightning (4) (3)
Break Enchantment (4) (4)
Cloudkill (4) (4)
Cone of Cold (4) (4)
Dismissal (3) (1)
Dominate Person (4) (2)
Feeblemind (4) (4)
Hold Monster (4) (2)
Mind Fog (3) (3)
Prismatic Ray (4) (4)
Protection from Elements (4) (4)
Repair Light Mass (3) (2)
Summon Monster 5 (4) (3)
Symbol of Pain (4) (3)
Teleport (3) (3)
Waves of Fatigue (4) (2)
Level 6 spells
Acid Fog (when not broken) (4) (4)
Acid Fog (broken) (3) (3)
Bear's Endurance Mass (3) (3)
Bull's Strength Mass (3) (3)
Cat's Grace Mass (3) (3)
Chain Lightning (4) (4)
Circle of Death (1) (1)
Create Undead (3) (3)
Disintegrate (4) (5)
Eagle's Splendor Mass (2) (2)
Flesh to Stone (4) (4)
Fox's Cunning Mass (2) (2)
Globe of Invulnerability (4) (4)
Greater Dispel (4) (4)
Greater Heroism (5) (5)
Mass Suggestion (4) (4)
Necrotic (4) (4)
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere (4) (4)
Owl's Wisdom Mass (3) (3)
Reconstruct (if are, or often play with, warforged) (5) (5)
Reconstruct (if not above) (2) (2)
Repair Moderate Mass - as reconstruct
Shadow Walk (4) (4)
Stone to Flesh (3) (3)
Summon Monster 6 (3) (3)
Symbol of Fear (3) (3)
Symbol of Persuasion (3) (3)
Tenser's Transformation (1) (1)
Undeath to Death (1) (1)
Level 7 spells
Banishment (4) (4)
Control Undead (3) (3)
Finger of Death (5) (4)
Greater Teleport (3) (3)
Hold Person Mass (4) (4)
Invisibility Mass (4) (4)
Power Word Blind (2) (0)
Prismatic Spray (4) (4)
Summon Monster 7 (3) (3)
Symbol of Stunning (4) (4)
Waves of Exhaustion (4) (4)
Level 8 spells
Horrid Wilting (3) (3)
Otto's Irresistable Dance (4) (4)
Polar Ray (4) (4)
Sunburst (3) (3)
Trap the Soul (3) (3)
Level 9 spells
Energy Drain (4) (4)
Wail of the Banshee (5) (5)

Short Lists
5.0's Wail of the Banshee, Wall of Fire, Greater Heroism, Reconstruct, Nightshield, Invisibility
4.5's Finger of Death, Disintegrate, Unbroken Solid Fog, Haste, Displacement
0's-1.0's Circle of Death, Undeath to Death, Power Word Blind, Fire Trap, Symbol of Flame, Burning Blood, Daze Monster, Broken Solid Fog

Further comment: Some people complain about some spells being too powerful (WoF and Haste especially), but I don't think the problem lies therein. I think the problem lies in the great wealth of spells that are just honestly a waste of casting. If we had fewer (ideally no) spells that were so useless then we would have more options available to us.

One of the main problems lies in your (Turbine's) inflation of enemy HD without in turn inflating our HD affecting spells. You inflated our damage to handle their inflated HPs - why have you still not taken account of the vast disparity between the HD our spells can handle and how much you inflated the enemy HD?

[Syllph]

Most have mentioned all the important ones:

I'll add a few:

Invisibility: What a cool spell this would be for stealthy types. But please, let it remain after using doors, levers etc. Let it fail on aggressive actions fighting, offensive spells. Would be amazing to sneak in grab the item I need and bolt.

Shadow Walk: Just a bad, bad spell. Clean up the I-can't-see-anything-but-haze effect and implement the same effect like invisibility: make it not break on using a door, lever etc and it'd be a pretty cool spell.

Knock: I'm sorry but a level 20 mage by my books is pretty bad ass. To think he can't open a lock but he can summon an outer plane demon doesn't compute.

Stoneskin: I think it should scale higher, capping at 20; not at mid teens. (When I get hit in weapon's shipment and it's gone in like 1 hit, I don't think this is too much to ask for) And for Light's sake remove the stupid material cost it's just annoying or at least let the ABSOLUTELY useless feat: Eschew Materials work with it.

Last I checked (a very long while ago) Chain lighting was broken so badly, then it was fixed and still broken then fixed and broken .... you get the point. If it's fixed woot Turbine! If not please....... fix it.....? (or remove it)

And my #1.................. f$%k the f%&king stupid s^&ty ---------> Summon undead. Not enough bad things to say to the evil programmer who made this spell (must've been the guy who made the pit and coal chamber, I hate you by the way j/k But seriously, this spell is so supremely terrible it's beyond words. This was my experience:

Step one: buy a stack of 1000 expensive component.
Step two cast spell with hopes of a cool summon (because all summons rock..... oh wait)
Step three wait 1-2 seconds and fight a newly hatched mob that you summoned.
Step four Watch guild mates who purposefully didn't warn you the spell sucked laugh their butts off at your folly.
Step five Remove Summon undead and replace with a useful spell.
Step six (optional) wait till said guild mates are weakened cast summon undead + Invisibility in spite. Then blame it on the sorcerer

Me dos centos

Edit: Flaming Ball, let it be maximized, empowered and heightened and I think it could actually rock.

[Tyrande]

As for my worst spells list: (as in: nobody uses them)

1) Power Word Kill, Power Word Stun, Power Word Blind, Mordenkainen's Disjunction.
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 1
Reason: Nobody uses these spells against monsters due to the HP limitation. As for Mord's: No monster is carrying equipment worth debuffing.

2) Symbol of Death, Undeath to Death, Circle of Death, Sunburst.
Cost: 2
Effectiveness: 1
Reason: Nobody uses these spells against monsters due the HD limitation. i.e. they don't work against level appropriate content. Also, not even waterworks appropriate monsters on elite with a high level caster.

3) Tenser's Transformation,Deep Slumber, Sleep, Daze Monster, Acid Rain, Fire Trap.
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 1
Reason: Tenser's is too restrictive; Deep Slumber, Sleep & Daze HD limitation. (see #2 as in nobody uses them); Acid Rain: too short, and Fire Trap: too low damage compared to other fire spells.

4) Stinking Cloud, Burning Blood, Sleet Storm.
Cost: 2
Effectiveness: 1
Reason: These spells are too situational to be used. Stinking Cloud: nauseated monsters do not seem to stop attacking or stop casting spells to cough. Burning Blood: damage too low and duration too short to be useful. Sleet Storm: Aggravation to party members without freedom of movement and obscured sight doesn't matter which side you are on.

[sephiroth1084]

Going to rate spells on a 1-6 scale, based both on how useful I find them to be at the level they become available (in comparison, roughly, to both other spells of that level and in how they fare in quests), and also at level 20 to reflect how useful they remain. This will be from a wizard's perspective, as I have never played a sorcerer, and their perspective may differ somewhat.

I'll also take the 4 highest ranked spells of each level range (for value of a particular spell level when first acquired), or the 6 highest (for value of a particular spell level at cap) and average their values, showing which spell levels are very powerful when you first receive them, and which have some real shelf-life.

Going to try to keep commentary to a minimum so that this long list will actually be somewhat readable. I know, a real hardship for me.

Obviously, all of this will be a matter of opinion.

Scale:
1 - Not worth even putting in the spellbook. Either doesn't work or is outdone entirely by other spells of that, or lower, level.
2 - Almost useless. These spells are so poor that bothering to scribe them is questionable, perhaps because the niche of the spell's utility is too small, or the spell's damage is extremely poor, as examples.
3 - Not bad/worth preparing in some instances. Perhaps the spell has a narrow niche, but one in which it functions very well.
4 - Solid spell and worth preparing most of the time, though may lose out to some other spells at that level.
5- Excellent spell that should probably always be prepared. It does its job well and is widely applicable.
6 - Overpowered to the degree that one would, if they had to, take this spell at a higher level, because nothing really replaces it.

Level 1 Rank upon receiving / Rank at cap
Acid Spray 4 / 1 slightly better than BH, due to fewer acid-resistant mobs
Burning Hands 4 / 1
Cause Fear 3 / 1 useful early, but HD limit,and inherent annoyance of fear spells
Charm Person 5 / 2 excellent early; replaced by higher level charms
Chill Touch 3 / 1 single target, close-range spells are okay, but never really stellar
Detect Secret Doors 3 / 1 wands and clickies make this largely unnecessary quickly
Expeditious Retreat 4 / 1 mobility is great, but clickies, Haste and striders overshadow
Feather Fall 4 / 3 FF items become common, but remains somewhat useful
Grease 2 / 2 good for a gag, but the non-scaling DC and friendly fire hamper this one
Hypnotism 5 / 3 excellent spell with a long shelf-life; replaced by better CC later
Jump 5 / 5 always useful
Mage Armor 4 / 1 useful early when even poor AC matters; doesn't scale and AC does
Magic Missile 4 / 2 reliable damage at range, if a bit low; somewhat useful later on
Master's Touch 4 / 3 usefulness drops off as monsters get tougher
Merfolk's Blessing 3 / 3 swimming faster is rarely a necessity, but is convenient
Niac's Cold Ray 4 / 1 i don't like save for 0, but it does work well for a few lvls
Nightshield 4 / 3 resist items largely replace this, but MM immunity remains useful
Obscuring Mist 3 / 1 too long a casting time when mobs die so fast; replaced later
Protection from Evil 4 / 2 bonuses are relevant early, and immunity useful later
Ray of Enfeeblement 5 / 3 red-/purple-named immunity to this has lessened its value
Repair Light Damage 2 / 1 potions are likely more useful early, better stuff later
Shield 4 / 2 see comments on Mage Armor and Nightshield
Shocking Grasp 3 / 1 see comments on Chill Touch
Sleep 2/ 1 HD limit means this spell becomes useless shortly after reaching the Harbor
Summon Monster I 3 / 1 worthwhile early, especially when soloing, but very weak
Tumble 3 / 3 a little useful in general as well as in a few specific quests (Reaver's Fate)

Avg. on level: 4.75 Avg. at 20: 3.3

Level 2
Blindness 2 / 1 overshadowed by Glitterdust, which is a persistent AoE; effect also weak
Blur 5 / 4 excellent defensive buff; superseded partly by Displacement
Command Undead 3 / 1 weaker than other charms as undead don't hurt each other well
Daze Monster 1 / 1 Hypnotism is an AoE and targets the same save; Hypno Pattern too
Electric Loop ? / ? haven't used this
False Life 2 / 1 effect is too weak for too much SP
Flaming Sphere 3 / 1 can be a little useful for some persistent damage, but save for 0
Fog Cloud 2 / 1 see Obscuring Mist
Ghoul Touch 3 / 1 monsters too weak for auto-crit to be useful early and only works on humanoids, replaced by Hold
Glitterdust 3 / 3 slow casting time hurts this; rogues in party increases value a LOT
Hypnotic Pattern 3 / 1 not bad, but graphic gets annoying; basically the same as Hypno
Invisibility 3 / 3 very useful for avoiding fights and on stealthy characters/healers
Knock 4 / 4 very useful, and in some quests (Shroud) a necessity
Melf's Acid Arrow 4 / 2 excellent early on, but damage doesn't scale
Ooze Puppet 1 / 3 improves significantly as dangerous oozes introduced (living spells)
Otto's Resistible Dance 5 / 3 excellent CC targets weak save
Repair Moderate Damage 2 / 1 see Repair Light
Resist Energy 5 / 6 excellent buff that is only ever replaced by wands
Scare 3 / 1 see Cause Fear
Scorching Ray 5 / 3 solid unavoidable ranged damage that scales pretty well
See Invisibility 2 / 1 almost never useful; invisible monsters become visible quickly
Snowball Swarm 1 / 1 worse than Burning Hands and Acid Spray
Spawn Screen 1 / 1 a spell that only functions when you die isn't very good
Summon Monster II 1 / 1 scorpion spends more time burrowed than fighting
Touch of Idiocy 1 / 1 casters die too fast to debuff singly; doesn't work on bosses
Web 6 / 6 one of the best CC spells in the game, targets weak save, persistent AoE
Bull's, Bear's and Cat's 4 / 1 very useful before +3/+4 items/House P buffs are available
Eagle's, Fox's and Owl's 3 / 1 only somewhat useful since SP doesn't increase w/ score

Avg. on level: 5.25 Avg. at 20: 4.3

Level 3
Acid Blast 5 / 3 good damage & works vs. almost everything; damage capped
Chain Missiles 4 / 2 moderate damage is unavoidable, but remains too low later
Deep Slumber 2 / 1 HD limit exceeded in most content by the time you get this
Dispel Magic 3 / 1 rarely useful, as most mob buffs are not dispelable
Displacement 4 / 6 longer duration and more SP make this better later
Fireball 4 / 2 good damage, but lot's of fire resist/immune mobs; DBF replaces later
Flame Arrow 1 / 1 can't recall if arrows can be traded; improve to 3 / 3 if they can be
Frost Lance 4 / 3 save makes this a little worse than Scorching Ray, but stays useful
Halt Undead 3 / 3 AoE w/ no save vs. mindless undead makes this very good even in epic
Haste 6 / 6 simply the best buff in the game even after nerfs
Heroism 4 / 1 excellent buff, but can be replaced w/ pots; replaced by GH later
Hold Person 4 / 2 excellent spell, but too many non-humanoids; replaced later
Lightning Bolt 3 / 2 line less useful than burst, and damage is capped
Magic Circle Against Evil 3 / 3 Prot from Evil uses a lower slot; okay in big groups
Protection From Energy 5 / 2 excellent buff early; replaced later by better spells
Rage 5 / 5 excellent buff
Ray of Exhaustion 3 / 1 guys you most want to hit this w/ are the ones most likely to save
Repair Serious Damage 3 / 1 starting to get enough HP to make slightly better than pots
Sleet Storm 2 / 2 tends to harm allies more than enemies; fun times though
Slow 3 / 3 decent debuff, but a lot of stuff is immune
Stinking Cloud 2 / 2 miss chance is okay, and debuff is mediocre
Suggestion 5 / 4 great CC; replaced later by Mass Suggestion and Symbol of Persuasion
Summon Monster III 3 / 1 decent combat abilities, and kind of tough
Waterbreathing 2 / 2 situationally useful, but UA items overly common from lvl 1 onward

Avg. on level: 5.25 Avg. at 20: 4.6

Level 4:
Acid Rain 3 / 2 low damage that doesn't scale
Bestow Curse 3 / 3 decent debuff, but single target and too much stuff is immune
Burning Blood 1 / 1 Melf's w/ barely improved damage and a save tacked on
Contagion 2 / 2 single target w/ very slow effect; most stuff dies long before this works
Crushing Despair 3 / 3 pretty good debuff, but a lot of stuff immune
Dimension Door 4 / 4 useful tool; entirely replaced by scrolls if available @ vendors
Enervation 5 / 4 excellent debuff/killer; partly replaced by Energy Drain, but not entirely
Fear 4 / 2 decent CC, but fear is problematic/unfun in many situations
Fire Shield 5 / 5 excellent buff; extended base duration made scrolls/clickies viable
Fire Trap 1 / 1 lower damage than firewall, w/ a save, and not persistent FAIL
Force Missiles 3 / 2 okay unresistible damage; doesn't scale up very well, but still useful
Ice Storm 2 / 1 damage is low, doesn't scale, and too short for persistent to matter
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability 1 / 1 really no situations for this to be useful
Phantasmal Killer 5 / 3 excellent when acquired, but 2 saves and many mobs immune
Remove Curse 2 / 1 wands, pots, scrolls, clickies
Repair Critical Damage 2 /1 less efficient than Repair Serious
Shout 2 / 1 almost nothing resists, but damage is too low
Solid Fog 2 (5) / 2 (4) used to be very good CC, but currently broken?
Stoneskin 4 / 4 very good buff, but wands can fill the job
Summon Monster IV 2 / 1 mediocre combat ability and CC abilities pretty poor
Symbol of Flame 1 / 1 basically same as firewall, but w/ a shorter duration and save
Wall of Fire 6 / 5 best DPS spell in the game; much of endgame immune drops usefulness

Avg. on level: 5.25 Avg. at 20: 4.16

Level 5:
Ball Lightning 3 / 1 not much better than the lvl 3 blasts, and damage is capped
Break Enchantment 3 / 3 useful in a variety of situations
Cloudkill 4 / 2 'eh' after Con damage got nerfed; metamagics don't apply; lots of poison immunity around
Cone of Cold 5 / 3 excellent damage for a while; damage is capped
Dismissal ? / 1 never used; replaced by Banishment later
Dominate Person 3 / 1 largely redundant w/ Suggestion w/ longer cast; replaced later
Feeblemind 2 / 2 doesn't seem to work much, and is a single-target debuff vs. squishies
Hold Monster 5 / 2 excellent CC, but single target and replaced later w/ Mass Hold
Mass Repair Light Damage 2 / 1 mostly taken to cure self; increase in mostly/all WF party
Mind Fog 3 / 2 decent spell, but needs others along with it; lots of mobs seem immune
Prismatic Ray 3 / 1 fun, and randomly very powerful, but unreliable, and replaced later
Protection from Elements 5 / 3 excellent buff replaces Prot from Energy; replaced later
Summon Monster V 4 / 3 decent HP, and earthgrab can be very useful sometimes
Symbol of Pain 4 / 3 good debuff, but vs. increasingly strong save; many immune
Teleport 4 / 4 very useful and convenient, but self-only and scrolls work just as well
Waves of Fatigue 2 / 1 improves if stacks w/ exhaustion; haven't seen a definitive answer

Avg. on level: 4.75 Avg. at 20: 3.3

Level 6
Acid Fog 4 (5) / 3 (4) low damage; slow down was nerfed/bugged or scores higher
Chain Lightning 3 / 3 good damage, but in a weak element for AP
Circle of Death 1 / 1 HD limit was exceeded many levels earlier
Create Undead 2 / 2 summons are weak, and may break; mummy's curse can be useful
Disintegrate 5 / 4 hard to improve damage, but it is high; save vs. strong save hurts this
Flesh to Stone 6 / 4 incredibly powerful in some quests, but save vs. strong save hurts
Globe of Invulnerability 2 / 3 semi-useful in Hound, but no where else really calls for this
Greater Dispel Magic 1 / 1 see Dispel Magic
Greater Heroism 6 / 6 one of the best buffs in the game; has multiple functions
Mass Bear's-->Owl's 1 / 2 useful in Hound, but +4 and better stat items very common
Mass Repair Moderate 2 / 1 see Mass Repair Light
Mass Suggestion 5 / 5 excellent CC; can be dispelled unlike Symbol of Persuasion
Otiluke's Freezing Sphere 1 / 1 Cone of Cold w/ a different AoE for more SP
Reconstruct 5 / 5 the king of WF healing spells
Shadow Walk 2 / 2 interesting, and occasionally useful, but too difficult to see
Stone to Flesh 1 / 1 was barely worth preparing over using scrolls before F2S got shorter
Summon Monster VI 3 / 1 beefy, hard-hitting, but a bit behind the curve
Symbol of Fear 3 / 2 same issues as other feat spells, but can be useful
Symbol of Persuasion 5 / 5 excellent CC; cannot be dispelled, but is repeatable
Tenser's Transformation 1 / 1 buffs don't stack with items and penalty is HUGE
True Seeing 5 / 4 necessary buff; prevalence of Tharne's and scrolls lessens need for this
Undeath to Death 1 / 1 HD limit was exceeded MANY levels ago

Avg. on level: 5.5 Avg. at 20: 4.16

[sephiroth1084]

Level 7
Banishment 4 / 3 good in some areas, but monsters increasingly immune
Control Undead 3 / 2 see Control Undead
Delayed Blast Fireball 3/ 3 good damage, but starting to get inefficient mana-wise vs. mob HP
Finger of Death 6 / 5 (1) starts off totally dominating and tapers off once mob saves get better, but still excellent; useless in epic
Greater Teleport 3 / 3 useful, convenient and basically a necessity for 2 raids; scrolls work just as well
Mass Hold Person 3 / 1 good CC, but too few humanoids; replaced by Mass Hold Monster
Mass Invisibility 3 / 3 useful for bypassing fights, and on healers
Mass Protection from Elements 6 / 6 not only replaces earlier spells, but adds functionality of use mid-fight
Mass Repair Serious Damage 2 / 1 see Mass Repair Light
Otto's Sphere of Dancing 6 / 5 amazing CC; drops off a little as mobs' saves go up/become immune
Power Word Blind 1 / 1 weak effect and HP limit exceeded long ago
Prismatic Spray3 / 3 see Prismatic Ray; was useful in epics, not sure if it still is
Summon Monster VII 3 / 3 weak, but a good decoy in fire heavy quests
Symbol of Stunning 4 / 3 good CC, but pales in comparison to Mass Hold Monster which targets the same save
Symbol of Weakness 3 / 3 decent debuff, but important stuff immune
Waves of Exhaustion 5 / 5 excellent debuff; would be 6/6 but bosses are gonna be immune to slowdown soon

Avg. on level: 5.75 Avg. at 20: 4.5

Level 8
Greater Shout 2 / 1 damage is low, if hard to resist, and cannot be improved; targets a strong save, and the CC is weak
Horrid Wilting 1 / 1 damage is low and cannot be improved
Incendiary Cloud 3 / 4 damage is rather poor, but useful against bosses immune to firewall (Abbot, Epic Raiyum)
Mass Charm Monster 2 / 2 Mass Suggestion does almost the same thing, but for less SP
Mass Repair Critical Damage 2 / 1 see Mass Repair Light
Otto's Irresistible Dance 6 / 6 excellent CC, that remains useful and irreplaceable in many quests
Polar Ray 4 / 4 good damage w/ no save, but mob HP scales up too high for this to be super useful most of the time
Power Word Stun 2 / 2 very few monsters have so little HP to make this useful; great in PvP!
Summon Monster VIII 3 / 2 cat is kind of weak, but trip CC can be useful
Sunburst 3 / 1 damage is okay, but doesn't improve, and undead quickly become immune to the instant fry
Symbol of Death 1 / 1 HD limit was useless long ago
Trap the Soul 5 / 5 excellent spell, but components are very cumbersome, plus it has an HD limit; otherwise probably a 6

Avg. on level: 4.5 Avg. at 20: 3.8

Level 9:
Dominate Monster 3 / 3 rarely more useful than Mass Suggestion
Energy Drain 4 / 4 very good debuff; lots of stuff immune though
Mass Hold Monster 6 / 6 best CC spell at endgame targets weak save and helps kill monsters in addition to immobilizing them
Meteor Swarm 4 / 4 against stuff not immune to fire, this does big damage, even if it is buggy
Mordenkainen's Disjunction 1 / 1 as far as I can tell, there is basically no use for this spell
Power Word Kill 1 / 1 say it with me boys and girls: "HD limits SUCK"
Summon Monster IX 4 / 4 decent HP, self-healing, some CC, and mediocre damage make this worth using, though not to rely on
Wail of the Banshee 4 / 4 would be 5/5 or even 6/6 except that most of the endgame is immune to this or has stupidly high saves

Avg. on level: 4.5 Avg. at 20: 4.16

[Kaish]

Mass Eagle Splendor, Bull strength, mass buff of those sorts.
You get those spell at high level and by the time you get them, +4 that is not stacking is very useless as everyone have +5 or +6 items already on.

Dimension Door:
Now that it disapear after the caster goes in, it is frustrating (easy to forget someone behind) and a good way to get your caster killed as he need to stay behind and have the less amount of HP... (make no sense)

Horrid Wilting
It does not do enough damage and it is very difficult to target stuff with it (for me at least)

Shadow walk
If only you were invisible. The visual effect would be like in Lord of the Ring when you put the ring on... Everything look strange around you, but no one can see you. Right now, this is not the case and its useless.. Completely useless. Might as well cast blur or Displacement on you. At least, you wont be semi-blind.

In general, many spells at high level wont do enough damage compare to DOT spells. They cost the same amount of SP tho.. making them not that useful. Which is in part why finger of Death and Firewall are so popular.

[thinkingofaname]

Spell level 1-9: All instant damage spells
Cost: 1
Effectiveness : 3

All instant damage spells are extremely ineffective past mid level. Right now the only spell that is viable at contributing damage is wall of fire, not because people refuse to use anything else, but because nothing else works. Even knowing an enemy has high fire resistant, all casters still choose wall of fire because anything else will drain all of their sp after 2 or 3 battles and leave them squishy and useless for the rest of the quest. This make the end game consist of 80% melee dps and rest are just there to support them, very unbalanced cast. Just increasing spell points will not solve the issue, and you may imbalance other aspects of the game such as healing, therefore I suggest:

1. A spell point "absorb" item effect or enchantment; allow casters gain back a certain amount of spells points based on the damage inflicted to the enemy. This will encourage casters use spells that enemies are not resistant to and get as many of the monsters as possible in one spell to reap the full benefits, both of which require skill and knowledge of the game. This also will not make players have too much spell point for healing, and may encourage divines to use more of their offensive spells.

2. A spell point "absorb" item or enchantment; which let casters gain back a certain amount of spell points based on the slain enemy HD. This scale better than absorb via damage since it will not make spells over-powered for mid level play. This however means that the spell caster either has to make the killing blow, which may lead to problems, or let it be "passive - as long as enemy dies you get rewarded" which is rewarding to all types of casters but healers will get a big boost to their spell pool.

[Angelus_dead]

A lot of people have complained about Horrid Wilting, and that brings up an important secondary point:
Not every spell has to be valuable for player characters. Some spells might be more useful for NPCs, and that's usually OK.

In the case of Horrid Wilting, it's fairly useful against players because there's no projectile to dodge and no buff like Resist Energy or Prot Elements to subtract from the damage. (And because it isn't subject to Evasion). Monsters don't share the players' ability to cast Resist Energy corresponding to the threat at hand, so players can instead pick an appropriate elemental energy instead of needing to fall back to a special damage type.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Not every spell has to be valuable for player characters. Some spells might be more useful for NPCs, and that's usually OK.

I disagree. Why shouldn't we have more viable options? Players who play casters want to cast spells - the more variety the better.

Follow-up: Why are there spells that enemies have that we still don't? For over a year Gwylan's Stand casters have had a DoT electric spell (can't remember the name atm).

[Breez_nh]

Here is my list of teh worst Spells.

Sleep
Lvl 1
Problem:
It has a HD 4 limit so it becomes useless very fast. Most people do not check to see if the mob they are attacking meets the HD limit so they get annoyed at wasting sp on an immune mob. Additionally, mobs save against it a lot.
Solution
Remove the HD limit or make it an aoe. Or just remove it fully.

Electric Loop
Lvl 2
Problem:
Very low damage, which can be halved on a successful reflex save. Then a mob who has failed the reflex save gets an additional will save against the stun affect. The stuna ffect only lasts for 1 hit. By contrast at lvl 5, a wizard will have fireball which will do 5d6 against a large number of foes compared to electric loops 3d6
Solution
Just make it 1d6/level, for a max of 5d6 at lvl 5.

Glitterdust
Lvl 2
Problem:
A good spell with a very slow casting time. Placing it in the right spot can be tricky and by the time you cast it, all the mobs are dead.
Solution
Shorten the casting time. Alternatively, give wizards an enhancement/item that lets them cast summon clouds more quickly.

Hypnotic pattern
Lvl 2
Problem:
A decent spell with a very slow casting time. By the time you cast it, all the mobs are dead. It also has a very short duration.
Solution
Shorten the casting time. Alternatively, give wizards an enhancement/item that lets them cast summon clouds more quickly. Maybe it could be a wild mage feature.

Melfs acid arrow.
Lvl 2
Problem:
A DOT that does not do very much damage. The mob is usually dead before the DOT has run out.
Solution
Shorten the duration, increase the damage. Change it to 'does 2d4 damage on impact and for every 2 seconds thereafter for 6 seconds. This spell does an additional 2d4 damage for every 3 caster levels after level 3'
At lvl 20, that would be 12D4 per tick, so a total average damage of 90 (12 * 2.5 *3 ticks = 90. By contrast a DBFB would do an average of 70 (20*3.5) to a larger group of mobs.

Daze monster
vl 2
Problem:
It has a HD 7 limit so it becomes useless very fast. Most people do not check to see if the mob they are attacking meets the HD limit so they get annoyed at wasting sp on an immune mob. Additionally, mobs save against it a lot.
Solution
Remove the HD limit or make it an aoe. Or just remove it fully.

Deep slumber
Lvl 3
It has a HD 10 limit so it becomes useless very fast. Most people do not check to see if the mob they are attacking meets the HD limit so they get annoyed at wasting sp on an immune mob. Additionally, mobs save against it a lot.
Solution
Remove the HD limit or just remove it fully.

I will post my comments on other spells when I get more time.

[Traeon]

Contagion
Usefulness: 1/5
The only disease that might be remotely useful in theory is Blinding Sickness but in practice this sort of single target debuff isn't worth casting or doesn't work on monsters where it would be useful.
This spell needs a complete rework in my opinion.

Hypnotic Pattern
Usefulness: 2/5
It is gained at the same level as Web and isn't nearly as useful as it because it breaks on damage. The psychedelic graphic effects are irritating also.

Chain Missiles
Usefulness: 2/5
It's not too bad of a spell, but (unlike other AOE spells) its damage potential doesn't increase with the number of monsters around. The missile behaviour is sometimes inconsistant.

Melf's Acid Arrow
Usefulness: 2/5
The damage of this spell never increases past 2-8, allthough it lasts a long time, especially when extended. Most stuff is long dead before the ticks add up to significant damage.
The fix would be to increase its damage with casterlevels, while reducing the duration to one that is more in line with typical named/boss fights.

Burning Blood
Usefulness: 2/5
Like Melf's Acid Arrow, but is further hindered by the fire/acid damage split and being negated by a fort save.

Summon Monster II
Usefulness: 1/5
The summoned scorpion burrows often which makes him much less effective and defeats the point of the spell.

Acid Rain
Usefulness: 1/5
The damage never increases past 3-12 acid damage, the duration is less than half that of Wall of Fire available at the same level.

Fire Trap, Symbol of Flame
Usefulness: 1/5
Their damage doesn't increase with level and Wall of Fire is gained at the same level.

Feeblemind
Usefulness: 1/5
This would be useful at times if it worked

Mind Fog
Usefulness: 1/5
Being able to reduce will saves is certainly useful, but the spell is negated by a will save which pretty much defeats the purpose.

Dispel Magic, Greater Dispel Magic, Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Usefulness: 1/5 (in PvE)
It's not that these spells are bad per se, it's just that there are barely any magical effects worth removing as far as I'm aware (be it harmful effects on allies or beneficial effects on monsters). For the purpose of removing harmful magical effects on party members, Break Enchantment is far better as it doesn't remove beneficial effects unlike (Greater) Dispel Magic.


In general I think damage spells need rebalancing against each other and against current content, with consideration of their damage/sp potential. I also think spells that can be saved against for half damage should have a slightly higher base damage.

The other thing that in general needs rebalancing is debuff spells (esp. single target). Most of them are not useful because there aren't any monsters that can be debuffed AND are actually powerful enough for the fight to last long enough for these debuff spells to become useful.

The usefulness of the spell damage enhancements depends entirely on the spells available. The Acid and Force lines could use a new high level damage spell each. I do support the idea of splitting the spell damage enhancement lines from Fire/Cold, Acid/Electricity and Force/Repair up into single lines, as long as we can fully take two lines for the same cost.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Melf's Acid Arrow
Usefulness: 2/5
The damage of this spell never increases past 2-8, allthough it lasts a long time, especially when extended. Most stuff is long dead before the ticks add up to significant damage.
The fix would be to increase its damage with casterlevels, while reducing the duration to one that is more in line with typical named/boss fights.
Melf's is a great additional DoT for boss fights, especially raids, and does well over 2-8 if you max/emp it. It does a little less than Acid Fog, but there is no escaping it nor does it block your sight.

Feeblemind
Usefulness: 1/5
This would be useful at times if it worked
It does.

In red.

[Meowin]

This is commonly misplaced as a useless spell, as not enough people bother to use it in tandem with Freedom of Movement as they level up. Sure if you get dispelled it makes it difficult to move, but you can't complain about 50% concealment for the duration of the spell as the enemies are blinded. This spell can save clerics a bajillion spell points in heavy mob concentrated areas if you know where to use it at. It cancels enemy FWs, slows/trips enemies, and blinds. It is NOT useless in any way.

+1 rep for being another person to recognise this.

[Chaosprism]

I was just going to start a thread on this myself.

So I'm encouraging participation in this thread!

Personally, I'd like to see something like:

- spell name
- 1-5 rating on spell cost (1 being bad, 5 being appropriate)
- 1-5 rating on spell effectiveness
- comments

Yeah I know i've piped up on spells before it's one of my pet peeves how some spells got amplified from pnp when going to ddo, and others just got forgotten.


Sleep, Deep Slumber
cost rating: 3
Effectiveness: 1
Comments:
Only works on things that can be affected by mind affecting spells, elves are immune though and other things that dont know how to sleep.
Hypnotism got buffed from it's 2d4 limit, sleep and deep slumber should too.
Make it affect way more hd, and to balance it, slow it's casting time down a lot so it's not always better than hypnotism. Also increase sleeps/deep slumber area of effect.



Cause Fear, Daze Monster, Scare:
rating: 4
effectiveness: 2
Comments:
These 3 spells are HD limited, and become useless very quickly like sleep, you cant even heighten them to make them useful.
I suggest to fix them, make them have some sort of effect when they're beyond their hd limit. Scare and cause fear could cause a SHAKEN effect (like doom does) when they cant cause outright fear. Daze could stun for a very short time like the side effect of sonic blast does when you're aiming at a creature beyond the 7hd limit.


Power word : Anything
Rating 2
effectiveness: 2

To use these spells you need to reduce the targets hitpoints first for them to even work, and if you're doing that effectively why not just kill them? Hitpoints on creatures in DDO is insanely over the limit, especially on hard and elite.



Undeath to Death, Circle of Death
Rating: 3
Effectiveness :1

comment:
HD limited spells again, wont affect anything over 9 hd, Needs to be improved on both spells. To balance it maybe make each casting roll 5d4 to see how many hd max the spell will work on instead of 9. That way you can SPAM the spell to get the effect you want.
Death is a fickle thing after all. rolling for the effective spell power seems right to me.


Those are the most ineffective spells in the game atm.

[caution]

I am just going to focus on the bad spells. Spellpoint cost for all is 1 (why waste a spell slot), effectiveness 1 as for the reasons given.

* As covered, any spell that has a HD or HP limit.
* Spawn Screen - especially now stat death does not occur.
* M. Disjunction - nice idea, just top-level of the useless debuffs.
* Close Wounds - not quick enough with GCD/lag in effect.
* Find Traps - DC too low.

Other spells (maybe effective 2 for lowbie use) are:
* Merfolks blessing - nice buff and flush sound, but due to underwater action proliferation, this is rarely of any benefit.
* Shield of Faith - ok, not totally bad, but as sources of deflection bonuses are common, this adds little value.
* Seek Eternal Rest - does anyone really ever succeed with turns?
* Hold Animal - very limited use, just as exciting as using my wolf wistle on the hound
* Spike Growth - is it just me, or does it hurt me more than the enemy?
* Bless - because Aid does Bless for you.

..and I won't go on with all the others that are replaced by higher (eg. magic missle vs force missle) and things that are common buffs.

I am not judging the others as obviously it is noob city. Any caster worth their merrit knows how powerful sleet storm, chain missles, hypnotism, meteor swarm, etc. are when used properly.

[Chaosprism]

While we're on the subject of spells in general, i'd really like to see WIDEN metamagic added. Should cost the same base extra mana as MAXIMIZE does. (25)

To double the area of effect of a spell . Clouds are twice the area, fireballs are double etc., cone of cold is bigger etc.

[Chaosprism]

Seek eternal faith actually is more useful now turns STUN undead, I use it with hunter of the dead. Try it. Radiant servants turns are better also since they auto destroy what would be stunned.

Spawn screen is a utility spell in very specific circumstances, doesnt need to be changed what else would you make it do?


Merfolks blessing isnt great but it does help a crucible swimmer, and if theres any other areas where you might swim against currents in the future it's fine. Its a spell you likely wont memorise much but it has it's place and it doesnt detract from the game. You could pump it up by increasing the skill bonus it gives though.




I'd also like to see another 1 or 2 level 2 paladin sells, since the stat buffs are rarely useful past level 12 paladin as you'll probably have a +4 str, wis or charisma item by then. I suggest shield other.
It's a cleric/paladin spell that lets you redirect some of the physical damage a creature would take onto yourself (as unavoidable maiming damage)

[Tyrande]

I disagree. Why shouldn't we have more viable options? Players who play casters want to cast spells - the more variety the better.

Follow-up: Why are there spells that enemies have that we still don't? For over a year Gwylan's Stand casters have had a DoT electric spell (can't remember the name atm).

/agree with Wizzly

Off Topic:
The DoT electric spell might not be available for wizards/sorcerers. It looks like a druid spell. i.e. Call Lightning or Call Lightning Storm; most likely the former less power version.

Players will probably get it when the druid ships.

[Chaosprism]

Going way back into pre-history here (2.5), but didn't True Necromancer stop undead turning on you? Might be a useful way to buff the master end of Pale Master, say grants the ability to firmly control 1 additional undead per tier (so max 3 from create undead) while creating additional ones releases your hold on them.

I agree it should be much more effective. Heres how i'd change the summons.
First of all slow down the chance of turning against you to 30-60 seconds. Not 15-30

Mummy: Granted useful mummies curse sometimes, but i'd pump up his health a bit.
Ghouls: Make their melee attacks paralyse MUCH more often. And buff up their survivability.
Ghasts: Make their nausea cloud much more potent, some creatures saving against it like stinking cloud so they cant cast spells. Pump up their health too, they dont do a lot of damage but they should be able to do a little control with their ghastly smells and annoy casters.