Worst of the Worst Spells

[NaturalHazard]

Um merfolks blessing? the duration is just too short. And Ranger summons they are way too weak, only use them if I want a distraction for a few seconds.

[jkm]

on my FvS

the most frustrating spell in the game is firestorm

1. it will not target an object that isn't on the same plane you are unless you use the manual arrow targetting system.

2. it will not do damage to the target of the spell when you do this. the epicenter seems to be a safe zone.

3. sometimes the spell just doesn't cast (it takes spell points though)

4. the delay between cast and effect is worse than the circle arcane spells

if you doubt what i'm saying go into the first room of epic partycrashers and try to hit that crystal 3 times with firestorm.

[EinarMal]

Tensor's Transformation

Worse than a level 4 divine spell, terrible, wizards who like to mix it up are forced to use a clicky from another class spell.

[Gol]

Tenser's Transformation
Cost: 5
Usefulness: 0 (I know you said 1-5, it deserves a 0)

I know it's implemented as per PnP rules, so I'm not knocking your implementation of it. The problem is that divine casters get the instant-win button of Divine Power, and meanwhile my Wizard carries 40 clicks/rest of DP bracers because his only spell option for it renders him defenseless.

[Nospheratus]

Trap the soul: usefulness - 2, cost 2
Should only have 1 version and should use the components as appropriate even if they are inside the ingredients bag (also, create a spell components bag! )
Make it so it always uses the same ingredient

HD/HP spells: usefulness - 2 (the only one that is ok is symbol of persuasion)
The problem with the HD/HP spells is that they need to be adjusted for HD/HPs, but they have no save. So, while it is a works/doesn't work kind of spell, when it does work it's powerful! Perhaps base the HD/HP those spells directly depend on the caster level or something different like the appropriate ability score for the DC when casting spells (INT for wizards, WIS for clrs, etc).


Glitterdust: usefulness - 4
aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhh

Hypnotic pattern: usefulness - 2
myyyyyy eeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeesss

Mordenkein's: usefullness - 1
Perhaps it could remove some random immunities to boss mobs... Like, fortification, reduce elemental resistance, reduce attack speed if they have haste, reduce str/con if they have items. All temporarily so that it's not too overpowered.


Quickened spells should not fail in the presence of a beholder if the casting was started before the beholder turned towards you...

[CaptGrim]

Tenser's Transformation
Cost: 5
Usefulness: 0 (I know you said 1-5, it deserves a 0)

I know it's implemented as per PnP rules, so I'm not knocking your implementation of it. The problem is that divine casters get the instant-win button of Divine Power, and meanwhile my Wizard carries 40 clicks/rest of DP bracers because his only spell option for it renders him defenseless.

I find my 20 clicks on Goggles to be plenty effective.

Agreed useless...I'd be happy with Divine power for Arcanes...it comes 2 spell levels later so I don't see a Problem there

[EinarMal]

I find my 20 clicks on Goggles to be plenty effective.

Agreed useless...I'd be happy with Divine power for Arcanes...it comes 2 spell levels later so I don't see a Problem there

Exactly just make it function like divine power, would not overpower anything.

[Doxmaster]

I find my 20 clicks on Goggles to be plenty effective.

Agreed useless...I'd be happy with Divine power for Arcanes...it comes 2 spell levels later so I don't see a Problem there

/Dev's mind
But then Tenser's transformation would be Overpowered! Besides...it's not like you can cast Divine Power on yourself...Wait. What? You can?

Oh well. Its not like you can do it a lot right? Wait. What? 20 Times? No? 20 times per rest?
\

I have no idea why Tenser even exists. There is absolutely nothing stopping us from getting the same boosts with no penalty from divine powr clickies. The only reason anyone would ever use Tenser is to trick people into thinking there are Chaos balls around. Which can be Hilarious around new people who don't know raids/quests well.

[Admiral_Otto]

Spawn Screen:
Cost: 4
Effectiveness: 1
Fix: Maybe add a modest boost to the affected's ability to slay or protected against undead? A small +1 or +2 bonus to some combination of attacks, damage, resists and or AC against undead? Nothing too much though, it is a low level spell that does last a long time. Maybe add an extra bonus if the caster is a Pale Master?

Contagion:
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 2
Fix: Allow us to Heighten this spell and maybe let it work on Red/Purple named (if it doesn't already).

Grease:
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 2
Fix: Let us Heighten this too. Setting Grease on fire is a lovely idea, but more could be done along that line. Maybe Heightened Grease would burn extra hot?

Create Undead:
Cost (SP): 5
Cost (material component): 1
Effectiveness: 1.5
Fix: I understand steps needed to be taken to keep Create Undead from being abused, but we can still fix this nifty and potentially very fun spell. If the created undead would just not turn against you (very quickly most often), that might fix it. I personally feel the undead should be stronger too.

Create Undead is a level 6 arcane spell IIRC (forget if divine is same). Compared to similarly leveled Summon Monster 5 or 6, Create Undead comes up rather short:

1. Summoned Monster spells last 10 minutes or until the creature dies...period. Created Undead rarely last 2 minutes without turning on you. The mummy is often under 45 seconds.

2. The material component costs. It costs me as much to cast Create Undead as Stoneskin! Stoneskin is like American Express...don't leave home without it. But 3 cranky ghouls while walking around Gianthold doesn't do much good. I understand having pricey components for certain spells, but Create Undead?

3. The Ghouls and Ghasts are, to me, *very* underpowered for the level. The mummy will at least hand out mummy rot (awesome cursed disease) and despair (instantly freeze mobs in their tracks) before it dies in a few swings....or turns against me. If the darn mummy wouldn't turn against me within seconds, he could kinda be viable. If you could make the created undead roughly as handy as the similarly leveled Earth Elemental and Troll, you might have a winner.

4. Long cool down timer.

Keep up the good work and thanks for listening.

[darkforest]

Tenser's Transformation

Cost: 1
Expensive the bull potion discourages casting further.

Effectiveness: 1

Basically, the only useful bit is the BAB.

Some ideas:

To keep with the melee and no casting flavor, add medium and heavy armor proficiency without to-hit penalty. Arcane spell failure still applies.

For the no cast spell part, perhaps instead slap a 50% arcane spell failure penalty to the caster. Better flavor than doubling spell points cost.

Also, it would be nice to remove the spell's symbol/totem overlapping caster's body. It is basically a 'kick me' sign to those who'll lecture how you must play the game, regardless whether this spell is fixed or not.

[olBillDoor]

Summon Nature's Ally I
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 3
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate.

Summon Nature's Ally II
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 1
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate.

Summon Nature's Ally III
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 0
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate.

Summon Nature's Ally IV
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 0
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate. This one by far is the worse; a CR 4 cat has almost no value to a lvl 14 ranger. It doesn't even make that good of a distraction due to how close it follows you.

Snare / Spiked Growth
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 1
Fix: Make them actually hold something/ do some meaningful damage.

[Orratti]

Would probably be better to list the spells that you actually carry and assume the rest are worthless.

Contagion- this spell would probably be much improved if it was broken down into sub spells so that you memmed only the disease you wanted to cast instead of having to pick from the list after casting it. The way it is set up is time consuming and unweildly.

Summon spells- all but one or two are worthless unless you are using them as bait so you can stealth by an opponent or get in some free attacks. Their survivability is very weak. I am hoping that if druids are ever created they will have exceptional abilities in summoning powerful elementals and natural allies. otherwise I see the class as being doomed before they even start. At least with an ability of this nature they will have a unique class skill.

[Angelus_dead]

Personally, I'd like to see something like:
- spell name
- 1-5 rating on spell cost (1 being bad, 5 being appropriate)
- 1-5 rating on spell effectiveness

It'll be hard for players to give good ratings for spell costs, because we currently have no examples of how cost could be flexible. Right now all spells of the same level have the same cost... it's good to see the devs are open to changing that rule, but hard to say that some spell like Slow or Crushing Despair is effective but overpriced, since the price is negating effectiveness.

[badbob117]

Word of recall has always kinda made me wonder? What is so good about going to house d?, And why is it a level 6 spell for fvs? level 6 spells are pretty badass. To mix this spell in with Blade barrier, cometfall, Heal and Harm is just kinda Coo-Coo. :0

Straight up madness!!!

[zztophat]

The obvious ones have already been named.


Vampiric Touch: It's not in DDO

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Trap the Soul: Not enough need for it, and the components take too long to gather. Not to mention the HD limit. Take off the HD limit, and make khyber shards drop more? Would be set.

Trap the soul would be useful if you could crunch to 40HD gems... Please add this.

Garth

[Angelus_dead]

There are a lot of bad spells, but the big overshadowing problem is spells to inflict hitpoint damage. The conventional wisdom is that they're all underpowered except for Wall of Fire and Blade Barrier, but that's inaccurate because other spells can sometimes be overpowered in low-mid level content.

To fix damage-dealing with spells is a huge job, and it won't work to start off by looking at the spells directly. You first have to step back and decide how well the caster classes should be able to cover a damaging role, both in terms of damage-per-second throughput and damage-per-combat capacity.

Step 1:
Resolve the imbalance between melee and ranged weapon effectiveness (meaning a more complicated fix than just tweaking damage). If a raid killing Suulomades and Horoth trades 4 stalwart fighters for 4 arcane archers, what happens to their completion time? What if their rogues respec from TWF to repeater? Is it good that their DPS goes down this much? How can ranged weapon DPS be raised to fairly close to melee, without causing problems with excessive safety or interference with melee playstyle?

The problem with ranged vs melee weapon damage is something that should be addressed before getting into spell vs weapon damage, because spellcasters are similar to ranged attackers in their ability to inflict damage from a position of safety.


Step 2:
Pretend that Mnemonic Enhancers have been seriously nerfed. Either deactivate them entirely, or put a cooldown of multiple minutes on the potions before you can drink another. Later on, after the damaging spells are balanced you can go back and consider whether un-nerfing spellpoint potions is beneficial. Currently a Sorcerer who's willing to drink 2-5 spellpoint potions per fight is in an entirely different realm of damage capacity from one who's going only by his blue bar. It's impossible to simultaneously balance damage spells for characters who are or aren't chugging rows of mana pots. (And that means it's impossible to make a fight that's challenging both for players who are or aren't willing to devote a pile of potions to it)

Step 3:
Resolve the damage dealing balance between spells and weapons, for both throughput and capacity. If a group killing Suulomades + Horoth replaces 4 Fighters with Sorcerers, what happens to their completion time? What should happen? How well should Sorcerers be able to fill a damaging role? And what about Wizards? Remember you have to go back and forth between how much damage the caster can put out before his resources are gone, and how fast it can blast it out when the resource is a non-issue.

I expect that the safest way to fix those things is to make spellcasting damage work more like ranged weapon damage: allow casters a way to keep throwing damage spells either indefinitely, or at least for a very long time (like +300 per shrine more than they already can). That will be influenced a lot by how useful the "at will" abilities of Archmage and similar specialties turn out to be, although that raises the question of if spellcasting damage should really rely on those things to last.

I could go further into the complexities, but you get the idea: the individual spells are less important than the whole system behind them.

[Fridas]

Summon Nature's Ally I
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 3
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate.

Summon Nature's Ally II
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 1
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate.

Summon Nature's Ally III
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 0
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate.

Summon Nature's Ally IV
Cost: 5
Effectiveness: 0
Fix: Up the CR of the Ally to something level appropriate. This one by far is the worse; a CR 4 cat has almost no value to a lvl 14 ranger. It doesn't even make that good of a distraction due to how close it follows you.

Snare / Spiked Growth
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 1
Fix: Make them actually hold something/ do some meaningful damage.

/This

Ranger spells really need some lovin'.

[CaptGrim]

Trap the soul would be useful if you could crunch to 40HD gems... Please add this.

Garth

I'd actually prefer that it was 10HD, 20HD, 21+HD..spell fixed

Or change ALL the HD based spells to operate on CR lvl instead...would prolly need a tweak here and there though.

[Memnir]

Spell: Acid Rain
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 2
- Really feeble DoT, even if you boost your Acid lines.


Spell: Any of the Mass Stat buffs
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 2
- At-level, most people have items to cover the +4 if they need it. Or P buffs.

Spell: Circle of Death
Cost: 2
Effectiveness: 1
- Perhaps the worst spell in the game due to the spell's HD not being boosted to keep up with monster HD inflation.

Spell: Close Wounds
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 1
-I have never cast this spell, nor seen it cast. It's really a waste.

Spell: Contagion
Cost: 4
Effectiveness: 2
- Since the stat damage nerf, this spell is beyond pointless.

Spell: Flaming Sphere
Cost: 1
Effectiveness: 1
- this spell is a joke even when the mobs cast it.

Spell: Burning Blood
Cost: 1
Effectiveness: 2
- another Acid damage failure. So bad, the Compendium doesn't even list it.

Spell: Shadow Walk
Cost: 3
Effectiveness: 1
- the purple haze is too close in, and prohibitively limits vision.

Spell: Symbol of Death
Cost: 2
Effectiveness: 1
- See Death, Circle of listed above.

Spell: Undeath to Death
Cost: 2
Effectiveness: 1
-

Spell: Word of Recall
Cost: 2
Effectiveness: 1
- With only the one location, and a very pointless one at that, this is one of the worst of the divine spells. Add more locations, and the spell will be used more and be more useful.