The Steel Cannon

[richieelias27]

You're still making all the same mistakes.

Things like heighten will not help you in any way.

You maxed charisma at creation while keeping CON 2 points under maximum, and then pumped con at each level completely wasting your charisma points. Your extremely low CHA is doing absolutely nothing for you, and yet you still maxed it out at creation? And whats the deal with raising every other stat except wisdom up to 10?

Melfs - worthless once you move past the harbor.
Dismissal - will never land
Banishment - will never land
Power Word Kill - is a broken spell

Seriously though.. you're already 8! CHA less than your standard human Sorc and even they dont have an easy time making save spells stick in end game content. You might as well start with 10 to 12 CHA and be done with it. If you stick some points into STR and pump that with all your level up points (you are not going to miss 40 hp... trust me...) then you'll at least have a legitimate reason for not raising your casting stat...

[SiliconScout]

PW Kill is mostly because there is no save only SR on the spell and I didn't see anything else at 9th that I thought might be useful....

Any suggestions though are more than welcome...


Banishment and dismissal have a standard DC that is stat independent if I read them right... actually just took a look at the wiki and it shows a different formula than the one I had been looking at dang it.

The site I was using showed the formula as it's DC = 10 - creature's HD + your caster level
but I see now it's actually a DC = spell's save DC - creature's HD + your caster level

That for sure means those spells have to come out... any suggestions on what I should replace them with?

As for Melf's that is more the spell I would choose at that level when I level rather than the spell I might keep at 20th. Essentially the build reflects what I would choose I would make when I level the toon rather than what he would keep at higher levels. From my understaning you can swap spells out there is just a $ cost associated with it correct?\

For the stats I had originally left WIS down because I was going to use FoP to counter the crappy save it was going to hit me with not sure I still won't do that to be honest as I stated in the last build I posted.

The CHA is up there mainly because UMD plays off it, it could counter the weak Will saves and I needed points to cast the spells. If I get tomes / slots for the guy I'd rather not have to make the choice to use CHA to get my spell casting levels up there when I could have them set in CON or DEX for example.

I looked at the extra 20 HP that the maxed out CON would give me and in exchange for them I can get better carry capacity, eliminate the AC and reflex penalty and just enough skill points to max 2 skills. For the 20 hp I figured it was easily worth it given where the guy end's up.

And yes I fully agree that if I dropped another 40 hp I'd be able to use the level ups into CHA and improve his DC but honestly WF have a low DC as it is, so I figured we'd go with high HP and spells that didn't use have a save as much as possible.

Heighten will help me against SR if I understand it's mechanics correctly and many of the spells I chose certainly have SR though they may have no save so getting through that SR is a priority for me.

[SiliconScout]

also (to most of you who have posted) thanks for helping me out with the build. I know it's not standard but then again neither am I and I think he'll fit my play style well enough.

I am learning a lot and it's a heck of a lot easier to learn it here than in the game and having to endless respec my sorcerer because of mistakes / knowledge gaps that I have.

So thanks again and please feel free to keep educating me!

[DrNuegebauer]

WHY?

I don't see the goal here?

You put level ups into Con to gain 40-60 extra hp and completely gimp your casting ability.

Why not just put the level ups into CHR (like normal) and still be 'non-squishy' since you're a WF with 18 starting Con???

What are you actually gaining the other way? You're gimping offensive casting for little to no noticeable benefit in the HP department.

with 18 Con starting, you could easily end up with over 400hp - very easily.
What are you gaining by ending up over 440hp? especially when you have the 'reconstruct' spell available....

WHY?

[tinyelvis]

also (to most of you who have posted) thanks for helping me out with the build. I know it's not standard but then again neither am I and I think he'll fit my play style well enough.

I am learning a lot and it's a heck of a lot easier to learn it here than in the game and having to endless respec my sorcerer because of mistakes / knowledge gaps that I have.

So thanks again and please feel free to keep educating me!

It doesn't sound to me like you are learning anything here. Play the game; experiment with builds; do some minimal research; gain some basic knowledge; then come here and try out your ideas on others.

P.S. Look at the wizard class. Plenty of feats so you can screw up and still have feats to spare. The ability to easily swap spells, so you can learn how to play a caster.

[bunitchu]

PW Kill is mostly because there is no save only SR on the spell and I didn't see anything else at 9th that I thought might be useful....

Any suggestions though are more than welcome...

ok u completelly misunderstood the point....having no save doesnt mean its the best spell to have. Have u ever made a meleee char and got it to 10? how many damages around 40 to 60 did u have to land to kill the mob?

PW is no save but does nothing to 300+ hp mobs, meaning, its a lvl 18 spell, that wont kill even lvl 10 ****

Banishment and dismissal have a standard DC that is stat independent if I read them right... actually just took a look at the wiki and it shows a different formula than the one I had been looking at dang it.

no, the math is: spell dc(that comes from ur stats +10 + spell circle) + ur lvl - creature HD. If creature has lets say 24 hd, u already lost all the advantage from ur lvl even being lvl 20 and took a 4 penalty on the usual DC, which thanks to 19 cha, is gonna b lame, and its against a will save, which aint as low as u may b thinking. I had a fvs with 49 dc on banishment(20 + 29 dc) and believe me, some stupid mobs managed to scape it, urs wont land at all.

That for sure means those spells have to come out... any suggestions on what I should replace them with?

dont worry about spells, focus on stats. Ur not making a melee sorc as far as i understood, ur making a caster, and caster, will have to play with DCs and for that u need the highest achievable cha u can get ur hands on

As for Melf's that is more the spell I would choose at that level when I level rather than the spell I might keep at 20th. Essentially the build reflects what I would choose I would make when I level the toon rather than what he would keep at higher levels. From my understaning you can swap spells out there is just a $ cost associated with it correct?\

well, when u post ur spell list, remember to post what u will replace the spell for afterwards in between (), or whatever way u want, that way we know how ur build is gonna look like afterwards

For the stats I had originally left WIS down because I was going to use FoP to counter the crappy save it was going to hit me with not sure I still won't do that to be honest as I stated in the last build I posted.

told u already, mobs will explode/beat/chew on u rather than command/sleep you, will saves do nothing on higher lvls, the only spell u would b worried about is hold, and WF is already immune to it

The CHA is up there mainly because UMD plays off it, it could counter the weak Will saves and I needed points to cast the spells. If I get tomes / slots for the guy I'd rather not have to make the choice to use CHA to get my spell casting levels up there when I could have them set in CON or DEX for example.

con u already have from WF
dex is meaningless, since ray spells dont use it like in pnp, and since ur reflex is so umbelievable crappy on casters, either u get insightfull reflexes (and even so, ur wasting a feat and for a atribute that is not urs to focus, that is int), or ur already toast in what concerns reflex spells and traps, so sorcerers and non mixed wizards gotta play extremelly careful to avoid super damage spells

dont stick to pnp, there ur atributes are limited, i reckon that, but here u get to over 40 on a stat easy enough with tomes/items/enhancements/lvl ups/etc, so dont b shy to invest on ur casting stat

And yes I fully agree that if I dropped another 40 hp I'd be able to use the level ups into CHA and improve his DC but honestly WF have a low DC as it is, so I figured we'd go with high HP and spells that didn't use have a save as much as possible.

except that ur making ur dc even crappier the way it is. Just because ur race isnt gonna get the best DCs it doesnt mean u gotta trash it even more, in fact it means u gotta work ur butt off to over come this. The spells with no resist hardly are the ones that make things go smoother on higher lvls. Sorc is a no mistake thing, 32 points can be easily max cha, 18 con, and whatever else u want with ur 6 remaining points, and dishing 40 hp will do u nothing good, except make u squishier for mobs....hmmmmm...squishy warforgeds...*drolls*

the worst that can happen is mess up the enhancements and spells, and plat along with the right directioning can fix it in no time. The thing u absolutelly do not want to screw over is ur stats/skills/feats, because those are unfixable latter on (save feats for a HUGE amount of farming)

Heighten will help me against SR if I understand it's mechanics correctly and many of the spells I chose certainly have SR though they may have no save so getting through that SR is a priority for me.

heighen make u cast ur spells as if they were all lvl 9 with the proper mana cost of a lvl 9 spell(unless u get imp heighen), so helps ur dc, not ur SR. And unless u plan on tring many times as a wizard for the past life, or get feats for a smaller effect, u will see that SR is a bigger problem than saves, because they double the chances of a spell failing, since the spell will have to pass the SR then stumble on the save. Unless u have a garanteed way of bypassing sr, dont bet on spells that can b stoped by it.

also (to most of you who have posted) thanks for helping me out with the build. I know it's not standard but then again neither am I and I think he'll fit my play style well enough.

problem is not that its not standard, its thats it far.... far....faaaaaaaar!!!z0mg!!! below the standard to a point where it hurts. It doesnt matter if u want to build something thinking outside the box, the problem is when u do it, do it in a very gimped way, and when we advice, it seems u dont read the advice. U want a sorc that has hp and can deal damage, thats bold, and can work, but unless ur making it melee, u can never dump stat cha, because casters need dc for the most effective spells. Ur build by the looks of it wont pass lvl15, heck, it may even stop at 10, because the way it is, when things get nastier, u wont make it. 40-60 extra hp wont make up for the 100+ damages that will fly on u, it is nice, but should not b the focus, so u have to kill stuff b4 this sort of damage piles up, and with weak spells, or strong spells but with low dc, u wont make any decent damage to mobs b4 ur already flattened on the ground, or u will burn all ur mana to kill a few mobs and still being miles away from the nearest shrine.

I am learning a lot and it's a heck of a lot easier to learn it here than in the game and having to endless respec my sorcerer because of mistakes / knowledge gaps that I have.

as i said b4, we all gave advices, and still it doesnt seem ur catching things up, thats the scariest thing

So thanks again and please feel free to keep educating me!

only if ur willing to actually read what we are trying to teach.

[Aurora1979]

Just to pipe in. My WF sroc started with 16 con, He had couple of 1's shy of 450 hp

I started with 16 CHA, put all my level up points into it and, obviously item. I still had to swap to a spell pen item to land alot of my spells, specially insta- kills with any sort of frequency.

I started with 14 STR and with a DP clickie and a +5 item i still like to beat things down and get good hits even when the clickies run out. NB. dont get me wrong, im no melee and my damage is low an slow but it is still nice when a mob has 2 hp left to just give them a slap rather then another spell.

I gota agree with the other posters here. I get flavour builds, and you wana be playing something you like. However, the reason WF arcanes are usually cookie cut is because the guys who made the templates have got it right.

You can play around with a bit, for sure, but i think you have deviated too much here and will regret it. You wont be doing enough damage to regularly beat down the monsters, you will need your spells, and your ristrcting yourself alot here.

Having said that, play it by all means. You dont HAVE to run an optimum character but just be aware that there is a very good chance that you will want to re roll, purely off your own choice, once you start hitting mid- late teens.