Khyber Drama Thread #608

[Zero_Tolerance]

I don't have a cleric, I play melee mostly and I do carry full set of pots for my own use. I also carry SP pots, and rez scrolls in case cleric will need them. It's basics IMO. Not having it and not using it is like my melee facing bunch of ooze and saying 'Oi, wizard, get your staff out, I don't do ooze, they eat my gear'. Now, I don't do that, I swap gear and have at those jellies. The same way I gulp my pots when I need, instead of bugging the cleric to do MY job [remove anything that can be done with pots is not cleric's job].

If you can be prepared, and don't do it, it is your own fault if you don't get help.

[Slink]

I have ran with a cleric that is one of the best on the server. He has let me "see the light at the end of the tunnel" so many times, I am grateful when anybody heals me.

On topic with the OP, much the same as pots and being prepared, overhealing is also a waste of resources.

[stainer]

On topic with the OP, much the same as pots and being prepared, overhealing is also a waste of resources.

You might consider that 8 hps left of a level 20 ftr's red bar as an appropriate time to throw some of that healing his way. No rush though, cause technically he still has to -9.

[Slink]

You might consider that 8 hps left of a level 20 ftr's red bar as an appropriate time to throw some of that healing his way. No rush though, cause technically he still has to -9.

Hold on I gotta calculate how much more you can take that will bleed 16 hp.
Then I have to account for server lag and the time it takes for the optics to send my input to the main server.

Oh, I got a free slot in my backpack, sorry!

lately I have gone into 4 raids only to find my inventory is full.
that sucks.

for you! haha

I wish Turbine would put a skellie in every raid.

[CombatLibrarian]

thank you.

"dedicated healer". interesting. and you continue to use the word "cleanses". and continue to *insist* that what you define as a "dedicated healer" *must* load "cleanses" as spells rather than any other way. why waste time shrining at every, single, shrine if sensible sp usage (and cheaply casting "cleanses" from a pot is included in that) means you don't have to? clerics are slow enough in party as it is and i'm not having everyone wait for me.

you have some very *definite* opinions of the way "healers" *must* be played don't you?

oh well. you have fun your way and i'll have fun mine.

Why? Because one is a freely renewable resource and the other is not.

Again, I insist absolutely nothing about the way any class *must* be played. I just ask that they be up front about it. If you don't stock cleansing spells, just say so.

But, if twisting some of my words and completely ignoring others makes you look a "hero", well who am I to stop you.

Cheers!

[Slink]

Why? Because one is a freely renewable resource and the other is not.

Again, I insist absolutely nothing about the way any class *must* be played. I just ask that they be up front about it. If you don't stock cleansing spells, just say so.

But, if twisting some of my words and completely ignoring others makes you look a "hero", well who am I to stop you.

Cheers!

So are you saying you take the eschew materials feat on your 'healers' so that your 'cleansing' is free?

Material components are not free.
Same as pots are not free.
Eschew materials feat is not free.
Sitting down at the shrine to replenish a 'freely renewable resource' is not free.
All of these take time and or funds to do.
Melee being able to deal with things as small as a poison/curse or stat damage is on their own shoulders.
Christ, at least nowdays with the changes post EU you can wait for your curse or stat damage/ neg lvls to go away.
Those hinderances used to be permanent.

I'll be damned if I zone into any quest and announce to the party my character setup.
If the group is questioning my abilities, it ALWAYS means they question their own.

Are you sure you arent good friends with a few other notorious posters here on the forums?
You sure act like it.

BTW, if you had any knowledge of Meli, the kind of player she is or the people she associates with, youd be amazed at the efficiency.
She cut her teeth with likely two of the best players ever to grace DDOland, Tachi and Quicktoez.
Youre talking like a new player that needs to be taken care of.
Meli is talking like a longtime vet that has the decency to deal with these BS 'non-problems' without having to beg for them.

In the meantime, I would suggest you run a few alts to cap without TR, learn the vale quests are 'walk-ups', and give a few more alts some points in con.

til then byebye

S.

[PopeJual]

After we finished, and just before he dropped, he said, "By the way, I normally have pots but ran out."

I'm 100% okay with taking care of someone who ran out of something. I'm even okay to take care of someone who didn't know to get something.

I'm just not happy about taking care of someone who can't be bothered to take care of themselves. That ranger probably would have done a lot better to have said, "I ran out, can someone get my curse, please?"

[CombatLibrarian]

So are you saying you take the eschew materials feat on your 'healers' so that your 'cleansing' is free?

Material components are not free.
Same as pots are not free.

That I'll give you. They are, however, extremely cheap. EDIT: Actually, this is completely irrelevant. See bottom of post.

Eschew materials feat is not free.

Well, if you feel the need to take it I suppose you could, but....it does in fact cost you nothing to take it, or to use it. Unnecessary, but hey. EDIT: Again, see bottom of post.

Sitting down at the shrine to replenish a 'freely renewable resource' is not free.

Um....yes it is. Oh! Wait, this explains where you're going.

All of these take time and or funds to do.

Ahhhh okay, now I get it. That's a very big OR you're tossing in there, especially with the very small amount of time it takes to shrine. You do know that "time is money" isn't a -literal- phrase, yes?

Melee being able to deal with things as small as a poison/curse or stat damage is on their own shoulders.
Christ, at least nowdays with the changes post EU you can wait for your curse or stat damage/ neg lvls to go away.
Those hinderances used to be permanent.

Both hill upways, -really-? And in the snow, my word, it snowed year-round back in those days didn't it.

At any rate, you seem to operate from the position that self-cleansing should be the default state, and I think that healers providing cleansing is the default state. Let me emphasize, again, I'm not telling anyone how to build and play their character. I'm just suggesting that if you show up to heal, and won't provide cleansing, speak up.

I'll be damned if I zone into any quest and announce to the party my character setup.

I'm not asking for a detailed history of "My Character's Build, by Slink". I'm suggesting you tell the group if you're not going to cleanse status ailments. Maybe even if just so it reminds them to check their stock of pots, or to let them realize your own personal in-game expectations.

You've got your position, and I've got mine, but the problem I have with your argument is that you seem to think your position holds some inherent merit, as though it was passed down from some higher power, written on the wall by the hand of the DDO gods. It's not, it's just a differing opinion, same as mine.

If the group is questioning my abilities, it ALWAYS means they question their own.

Absolutely zero logic in this part. Always is a big, heavy word to toss on an opinion sans support.

Are you sure you arent good friends with a few other notorious posters here on the forums?
You sure act like it.

Are you sure you want to sink to ad hominem attacks? Seriously, what you just said equates to "I disagree with you, therefore you know/are another person that I disagree with and dislike!" And if having an opinion and supporting it makes me notorious, well then burn me for a Fawkes.

BTW, if you had any knowledge of Meli, the kind of player she is or the people she associates with, youd be amazed at the efficiency.
She cut her teeth with likely two of the best players ever to grace DDOland, Tachi and Quicktoez.
Youre talking like a new player that needs to be taken care of.

I'm not sure how many times I need to say that I do stock pots and wands. Apparently at least one more time than the number of people that completely ignore that I've said it so they can beat up a handy strawman.

Meli is talking like a longtime vet that has the decency to deal with these BS 'non-problems' without having to beg for them.

See above.

In the meantime, I would suggest you run a few alts to cap without TR, learn the vale quests are 'walk-ups', and give a few more alts some points in con.

Massive, completely unsupported presumption on what I have and haven't done with my characters.

til then byebye

S.

Indeed.

In the end, it looks like a local favorite has decided to disagree with me, and so a lot of these posts are becoming less and less about what I've actually said and more and more about white knighting Meli. If theyr'e as experienced a veteran as you say, I doubt they need you rushing to their quasi-defense.

EDIT: Out of curiousity, since I dont' often pay attention to exactly what's material component required and what isn't (I just rebuy to 1000 every time I'm done with a long set of adventures), I logged on and checked my healer's spells.

Remove Curse: No material component.
Remove Blindness: No material component.
Remove Disease: No material component.
Heal: No material component.

So...actually, scratch the top, your first point is completely invalid.

[muffinlad]

When playing fighter/barb I always bring:

100 lesser restor pots
100 remove curse pts
20 remove blindness pots (unless I have the item)
20 remove disease pots (unless I have item)
20 remove poison pots (unless I have item)
20 prot fire pots
10 of the best Resist pots that I can find (10/20/30) or scrounge up.
100 of the best heal pots I can get
100 Haste Pots
100 Rage Pots.

Yes, it is expensive. Yes, I do have haggle toons, or ask haggle toons to help me.
Yes, they take up 10 spots in my back back. Yes, it takes up a full row of my screen.

Worth every copper I send on it, every spot, every row. It means that if I have a cleric that likes to heal and cure, I can focus on killing. If I am playing with a cleric that wants me to carry more of the burden, I can. No hard feelings, I am ready to go and ready to fight.

Do not expect OTHERS to be responsible for your ability to act, and be ready to help others who are not ready. The Platinum rule is treat others better than you expected to be treated, and then limit your future exposure to folks who treat you, your friends or others poorly. It seriously pays a huge reward at the end of the day.

muffinlad

[CombatLibrarian]

When playing fighter/barb I always bring:

100 lesser restor pots
100 remove curse pts
20 remove blindness pots (unless I have the item)
20 remove disease pots (unless I have item)
20 remove poison pots (unless I have item)
20 prot fire pots
10 of the best Resist pots that I can find (10/20/30) or scrounge up.
100 of the best heal pots I can get
100 Haste Pots
100 Rage Pots.

Yes, it is expensive. Yes, I do have haggle toons, or ask haggle toons to help me.
Yes, they take up 10 spots in my back back. Yes, it takes up a full row of my screen.

Worth every copper I send on it, every spot, every row. It means that if I have a cleric that likes to heal and cure, I can focus on killing. If I am playing with a cleric that wants me to carry more of the burden, I can. No hard feelings, I am ready to go and ready to fight.

Do not expect OTHERS to be responsible for your ability to act, and be ready to help others who are not ready. The Platinum rule is treat others better than you expected to be treated, and then limit your future exposure to folks who treat you, your friends or others poorly. It seriously pays a huge reward at the end of the day.

muffinlad

I run with a similar supply on my melee bard. (Minus the rage pots since I'm casting Rage on myself.) Again, really, I don't expect a healer to be responsible for me any more than I am for them. (Which isn't to say not at all...if you're operating as a team you all bear a -bit- of responsibility for each other, otherwise you're not contributing to the group's success.) All I really ask is that healers that don't want to cleanse say so, and everyone can make their decisions from there.

Honestly I see it as no different from a rogue build that takes no disable device, or a bard build that for some reason I can't fathom takes 0 perform skill. Or an FvS build that focuses on offensive casting, which I play, and always inform groups that I join that my build isn't a healing build, so they should find someone else to do it. If you want to build that way, it's your call. It's just courteous to let people know what's going on, and a bit self-centered to think that everyone's expectations should fall perfectly in line with yours when you haven't communicated them.

[unscythe]

Players shouldn't be checking on how other players play, until it becomes and obvious detriment to the quest.

[MeliCat]

lol. ty for the chamionship Slink!

i don't think he's listening so nvm.

[petegunn]

I'm a DDO libertarian. Play how you want. But why would someone playing a cleric EVER get annoyed that someone else asked for a heal or a cure. That's just silly.


That's like a combat medic getting annoyed with his machine gunner that he didn't bring his own bandages.

You do know soldiers are required to carry their own field dressings x2 plus quick clot to stop the bleeding? You're not meant to use your own personal medical kit on anyone else, of course the medic on the ground will use all means at his disposal to make sure you make it out alive if you get fragged.

[Emili]

Hold on I gotta calculate how much more you can take that will bleed 16 hp.
Then I have to account for server lag and the time it takes for the optics to send my input to the main server.

Oh, I got a free slot in my backpack, sorry!

lately I have gone into 4 raids only to find my inventory is full.
that sucks.

for you! haha

I wish Turbine would put a skellie in every raid.

Speaking of which I need to dust my divines off gear 'em up and play them a tad... God, like the bloody rest of them.

When playing fighter/barb I always bring:

100 lesser restor pots
100 remove curse pts
20 remove blindness pots (unless I have the item)
20 remove disease pots (unless I have item)
20 remove poison pots (unless I have item)
20 prot fire pots
10 of the best Resist pots that I can find (10/20/30) or scrounge up.
100 of the best heal pots I can get
100 Haste Pots
100 Rage Pots.

Most melee do carry all that in circles I run, I know I've least a toolbar full of potions on my melees... Funny, chances are I could be on any class and shall I notice anyone else at all with some cloud above their head, nasty stench or green bout the gills... Well, Slink knows.

BTW... Am lazy on UMD's toons and divines, I'd rather heal scroll away stat damage, blindness, disease and poison... more expensive I know, but just simplier and easier, 500 heal scrolls fair far more versitile and takes up but one slot per 100 than say all those pots and spells on tool bars. Do use a slot for other things like greater restore scrolls and such.

[MeliCat]

Speaking of which I need to dust my divines off gear 'em up and play them a tad... God, like the bloody rest of them.


Most melee do carry all that in circles I run, I know I've least a toolbar full of potions on my melees... Funny, chances are I could be on any class and shall I notice anyone else at all with some cloud above their head, nasty stench or green bout the gills... Well, Slink knows.

BTW... Am lazy on UMD's toons and divines, I'd rather heal scroll away stat damage, blindness, disease and poison... more expensive I know, but just simplier and easier, 500 heal scrolls fair far more versitile and takes up but one slot per 100 than say all those pots and spells on tool bars. Do use a slot for other things like greater restore scrolls and such.

i carry poison neut on my WF half the time (cos i buy them in stacks when i buy everything else - resits 20s, blind, curse,disease, lesser restore, haste, csw): i amuse myself greatly removing peoples greeen hats from my WF cos *i* don't use them.

playing Sammiich a bit (trying to cap her) and i don't actually have restore or raise dead loaded - i may as well scroll. and by those really vicious battles (sigh - GOP - we didn't have *something* to take him down fast enough -both casters claimed they couldn't discintigrate even though he was cursed) by the time i'm raising people it's no sp time anyway. may as well scroll them as scrolling works...

it's expensive funding lowbies... need to start raiding more again...

[Slink]

it's expensive funding lowbies... need to start raiding more again...

Amen.

Someone was amazed friday when I told them I bought 3000 cure serious pots before I TR'd Sidekickz.
Having all that stuff for withdraw out of reincarnate tab is pretty nice and saves on plat when the TR character has a 2 haggle.
The pot cost alone to solo a melee in cures/haste/curse/poison/less.restore/hero/rage is enough to make the post-EU cry.

Running Snuffy to cap cost over 500k between a few minor twink items/house p buff/pots and I bet I am probably on the low end compared to some.

Even though Side is only just lvl 8 he has begun holding steady @ 1.9mil.

[Emili]

Amen.

Someone was amazed friday when I told them I bought 3000 cure serious pots before I TR'd Sidekickz.
Having all that stuff for withdraw out of reincarnate tab is pretty nice and saves on plat when the TR character has a 2 haggle.
The pot cost alone to solo a melee in cures/haste/curse/poison/less.restore/hero/rage is enough to make the post-EU cry.

Running Snuffy to cap cost over 500k between a few minor twink items/house p buff/pots and I bet I am probably on the low end compared to some.

Even though Side is only just lvl 8 he has begun holding steady @ 1.9mil.

... and you wonder some things end up in your posbox.



Rosewood sends all my other girls supplies (potions, scrolls)... well most.

Personally know am spoiled but am even stuffing yugos in Emi's bank...

[fartlord]

had a bard rage on me tonight for not letting him roll against a sorc for ring of thelis.


empowered dancing ball?

[taurean430]

had a bard rage on me tonight for not letting him roll against a sorc for ring of thelis.


empowered dancing ball?

No.

More like an additional 175 spell points and spell resistance 22, on a class that could use the boost in sp:

* Efficient Metamagic - Empower II
Efficient Metamagic - Empower II: Additional SP cost for Empower Metamagic is reduced by 2 SP.

* Wizardry VII
Wizardry VII:This item grants the wearer +175 maximum spell points. Sorcerers and Favored Souls gain up to double spell points from items.

* Spell resistance (22)

While I don't think it's rageworthy personally, it would be good to keep in mind that 2 out of 3 ain't bad at all. Not being allowed to roll on them was pretty unfair to that bard I think...

[fartlord]

wispering me that he would trade tumbleweed(a ring i already own)before i even finnish looting my chest loot,didnt help his cause,and made it clear he didnt want the casters to have a chance at it.