My Expectations of a New Player

[Steiner-Davion]

All this talk makes me, a brand new player, shy away from doing quests with anyone. I am sure I could not keep up with the experienced players.

But see, there in lies a problem that the OP wanted you to acknowledge. Know your limits, know your playstyle. We are all here to have fun, and from what I read here in your post, is that it sounds liuke you won't be able to/can't have fun playing with season experienced players until you feel more comfortable yourself.

Arming yourself with this Knowledge you can make mucher better choices when deciding to join or even form your own PUGs.

And Remember: "Knowing is half the Battle!"

[Steiner-Davion]

But see, that's what he's trying to get across...not that DDO is not a game, but that you have to strip yourself of the perception that "It's a game and should be fun". See, the inherent problem with that statement, is that it makes each person assume that DDO should be what THEY consider to be fun...that statement focuses your mind on what YOU want to do, and what YOU enjoy. The problem is, some people enjoy making the game more than just a game. Some people actually look at this game as a hobby, or even a challenge, and what they consider to be fun is not the same as what you or I consider to be fun. Basically what it boils down to is that the statement "it's a game and it should be fun" naturally engenders a somewhat selfish ideal, whereas, the OP wants to make you step back and realize that this is not just a game to everyone, and what is fun to one person is not fun to others.

Granted, it's a somewhat roundabout way to say it, but I believe that's what he's getting at. He wants you to drop your preconception and see things from the powergamer/elitist's point of view.

I could be wrong, though.

No I think you nailed it right on the head. (unless I'm misreading/misinterpreting it too )

[Ainimache]

Just wanted to say I never said, nor meant, though I can see how someone might read it that way, that it's just a game. But it IS a game.

It's a game that can be someone's hobby. Or their timekiller. Or their social network.

But no matter what, most people who play, play to have fun. However they have fun.

It took me a while to understand (rather than just accept), but I do understand somewhat now the power gamers. I can't think that it would ever be fun for me, but I do see some of the appeal.

But you're all right, the hardest part for most players is the empathy, or at least acceptance, that there are many ways to have fun with this game. The trick then is to find others who find fun the same way you do.

So, everybody have fun! So long as it's not at another's unwilling expense.

[GreatOwl]

Well, I think that in truth the major problem is that a lot of people don’t use their brains when playing. As complex and vast as this game is, it’s not quantum physics or nuclear engineering and just thinking about what it is you are doing will take you a long way. When you meet people who simply refuse to think is frustrating not only for old timers but for new players too.

The second problem is communication. I greatly appreciate when people put “zerg” or “know your way”, or “no noobs” in their LFMs because that tells me clearly and with no mistake that you don’t want to party with me and I don’t want to party with you; we end up not meeting and be happier. The problem arises when one gets into a group and just plays “his way” regardless. That’s infuriating, but new players aren’t the only ones guilty of doing that.

As for myself, I am a new player and never had problems with the so called “vets.” On the contrary, I’ve learned a great deal from them and received lots of much appreciated advice. In part may be the server I play on (although I’m sure there are friendly people elsewhere too) In part because I never join the above mentioned LFMs. As a matter of fact I don’t join BYOH groups either; it might be my newbie perspective but to me they don’t translate into “be sure to have some pots/wands with you” it translates into “be willing and able to solo this quest because I don’t need you, and don’t expect help because I couldn’t care less about you, and if I feel extremely good I MIGHT pick up your stone if you so happen to make a mistake” ... yeah I don't join those either.

[PopeJual]

Now that we've seen your expectations of a New Player, I have a followup question.

What's your definition of a boombastic jazz style?

[sephiroth1084]

All this talk makes me, a brand new player, shy away from doing quests with anyone. I am sure I could not keep up with the experienced players.

Don't feel that way.

Instead, make sure to gauge your experience and strengths, and be honest with yourself and those you're grouping with. As Aranticus said, if you're a new player, don't join a quest up on elite that you've never run before--that's just an example of gauging yourself.

On the flip-side, when you join a group, if you aren't sure what to do, ask. Ask questions. About anything: where to go, what you should be doing, what to expect, what weapons or spells you may need, what gear you should have or for advice about your character. As long as you aren't being pushy about it I'm sure some people will step up and lend you a hand. The thing that ****es me (and most other vets I know) off more than almost anything else is players who appear to be wafting through the game, looking for a free ride, who clearly are making no effort to contribute to their groups. The folks whose first words upon joining a party are, "Share please," rather than asking where the quest giver is, or even a general salutation.

I can't speak for everyone, but in my groups, if you're asking questions and genuinely trying, I'll put up with quite a bit of noobishness, go slower, explain things in great detail (even things that you won't be doing yourself, such as what the rogue who ran off in the other direction is doing, or why that caster is waiting there, etc...).

[Ethiel]

Great post Aranticus, really liked section 5, I am a long time PNP gamer and it was a world of learning to understand how they had to adjust it for DDO.

great post.

[Stitch78]

In the end, though, even if you play your way for months, if you stick with the game for long enough, you will find that your playstyle will probably conform to what Aranticus has pointed out...it is simply an easier, more efficient method.

+1 and QFT

On the other hand... this post makes me laugh because it is a zoomed-in version of adults vs. kids. Adults are always trying to tell kids: "Just do it my way - my way is faster, cheaper, easier, more reliable and, frankly, what everyone expects you to do!" Kids are always firing back at adults, although less articulately: "I wanna learn to do it MY way not YOUR way!!"

Age old dilema which is not going to be resolved any time soon. (Personally, I can't get enough advice in game. Even bad advice, once I recognize it as bad, is helpful as something NOT to do. But not everyone feels this way.)

People who have been playing for five years are only going to get MORE frustrated with new players. That is because you will always be gaining more and more experience, learning new tricks, mastering new techniques and so on. And there will always be some brand new, welcome-to-Korthos player who knows exactly nothing. Making you scream at your screen as they pull every lever in Delera's, LFM Taming the Flames on elite and FO of Shroud 1st. And, because of natural attrition, there will, from this point on (unless F2P is removed) always be more newbs than vets. Pryamid shaped layout.

And that, in sum, is why no one really wants to live forever. Deep man. Deep.

[DANTEIL]

All day long the OP in this thread has been bothering me. I can't exactly put my finger on it, because I actually think that much of it is good and useful from a perspective-taking standpoint. I think that my discomfort has something to do with how I am perceiving the attitude or degree of arrogance in the way it is written, especially the first part about "perception."

Anyway, I decided to try to turn it around and use the same framing etc to write something from the other perspective. I hope that this is taken in the way that it is intended -- as my attempt to share some of the other side. I truly believe, though, that accommodating these kinds of differences will take some effort and movement from all sides, rather than putting the burden solely upon one group only. After writing this, I still don't know whether to be despairing or hopeful about whether this kind of issue can be resolved. I have increasingly been thinking about how some DDO players seem to be playing a different game than me (as a non powergamer). What I do know, however, is that there is a tremendously huge middle ground between the clueless annoying noob/newb and the know-it-all elite vet. The issue is whether segregation is really the answer, I guess.

=-=-=-=

1. perception
Many people have the idea that DDO is a game and must therefore be fun. According to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, people must feel like their more basic needs like security and health are met before they can address higher-level needs like achievement, respect of and by others, and creativity and problem-solving. The needs of a casual player are very different from a powergamer. The needs of a new player are also different from a vet. A lot of powergamers think that newer players are short-sighted dilettantes who are only looking to have "fun."

This is a wrong perception. Many newer players are also interested in succeeding at the game, in their own way, given their limitations. Their fun is NOT about running lost in a quest, dropping into lava, and holding their breath or poking at the dragon's rear end waiting for an explosive fart. Who would find that fun? A newer player's interest is often about acquiring better gear and mastering the game well enough to improve their ability to achieve feats of soloing, speed, etc. While it is true that newer players may find that the slow exploration of a quest, with the rogue scouting ahead for traps and foes, the caster in the back preparing a counterspell, etc "fun," this does not prevent them from wanting to experience the game in other ways as well and certainly doesn't automatically put them in the easily-dismissed category of "flower-sniffers." The reality is that most players are probably in the middle -- trying to learn the game but without the knowledge or gear yet to really master the game the same way that many veteran players have. Yet, some veteran players treat play-style not as a continuum, but as a category: Anyone who does not 'max' the game (either in speed or gear or XX) is a flower-sniffer. This is unfair because it treats what often is a circumstance (lack of gear/experience) as a choice (a phantom "decision" to traipse merrily through dungeons).

2. build
It is true that newer players often misunderstand balance and min-maxing. It is often true, and understandable, that new players generally think of balance as something which allows them to meet new things head on and to be prepared by means of spreading out the abilities, and that min-maxing is something that implies the maxing of certain abilities at the expense of others. Newer players also probably don't realize right away that DDO is not a proportional game. However, some newer players will care about this, while others won't. Obviously, min-maxing is a spectacularly good way to "succeed" at DDO in higher levels, but it is not the only way to play the game -- even at high levels. What is important for newer players to understand is the ~logic~ behind choices in build and gear -- and why some choices (like high Con) are "obvious" while other choices may be just that: Choices. Once a newer player has a handle on what the options are, then they may decide (or not) to min-max as best they can. Deciding not to do so is not a moral failing, however. If grouping with someone who doesn't have what you perceive the 'optimal' build interferes with your own ability to get what you want out of the game, then by all means avoid that person/situation. But, beyond trying to explain why some choices may be counterproductive, don't belittle or somehow demean other individuals' selections of gear and builds in the process. Making people feel defensive about something they have spent time and effort on is generally not helpful.

3. attitude
Help! This is the best advice I can give any veteran player. Newer players greatly appreciate the many resources available that you didn't have when you were first starting out. If a new player is already on the forums, then assume that they want to learn. If you see people asking naive or "dumb" (but seemingly sincere) questions in the game, don't ignore them, refer them to the forums if you don't feel like answering their questions directly. (If they're jerks, you can ignore them.) During quests, do not hesitate to create an atmosphere where newer players can ask questions. Many newer players are hesitant to speak up because everyone else seemingly knows exactly what to do or are talking and laughing about other things and it seems noobish to interrupt to ask questions like "What does that lever/key/NPC do?" or "How do you kill that mob?" The higher the vet-to-new ratio in the quest/raid, the more true this is. Newer players may try to ask intelligent questions but sometimes they are just simply confused and/or overwhelmed. That does not mean that they are idiots or hopeless.

Don't freak out when someone admits that they are new. Like most everyone else, new players hope to achieve 100% success as much as possible, and if they are new, they will benefit immensely from timely, clear instructions. However, you must also know where you stand. If you are a veteran player, leading newer players through a quest/raid on hard or elite will potentially be challenging and may sometimes fail. Even if they have done the quest before, they won't have done it the same 3426136 times that you have, and things that seem obvious to you won't seem obvious to them. Creating an lfm with "in progress", "byoh," "be sufficient", "zerg run", "speed" is definitely good practice if you would like to warn less experienced players about your expectations. If you are the leader of such a group, it is okay to have high expectations for what other people will do. but even in zerg groups basic communication can go a long way. Inevitably, you will get people who join whose idea of 'self-sufficient' or 'zerg' will differ from yours. This doesn't mean that they are bad people. (Unless they are jerks. Luckily, the 'jerk' category cuts across the new/vet divide.)

Be humble. When telling people that a certain thing needs to be done, be prepared to explain why. Newer players don't have ESP, and generally are eager to learn strategies and game mechanics, especially since many quests/raid completion runs are quite established and usually have a best tried and tested method. They won't always have the gear/skill to smoothly accomplish those goals, but they want to contribute. Most importantly, it's about communication. If doing something differently could have an especially negative impact, let people know about this ahead of time. If that negative thing happens, chalk it up to part of the challenge of grouping with other people and take a moment to explain why that was negative. If someone seems resistant to your constructively-offered advice to get more than 150 HP at L20, then simply shrug your shoulders and walk away at least knowing that you tried. However, don't assume that all newer players are creating toons with 150 HP at L20 just to spite you. Not everyone in the game has the benefit of belonging to a top-flight established guild with lots of guildies to give solid advice. Sometimes it is indeed simple ignorance.


4. equipment
Some new players are on their first character and won't have a ton of plat saved up yet. Even if they are aware that status removal and healing pots are typically the least anyone should have, their resources for obtaining sufficient numbers of these may not always be the greatest. If they seem surprised that such pots might be necessary, then by all means explain this to them, but try to do this in a way that doesn't make them defensive. Some newer players, yes, will be jerks about wanting immediate curing, but that jerk could be anyone, not just someone new. Not every player has played a cleric and may not always be aware of the demands on healers. On the other hand, it's okay to let a newer player die. Death is often the best teacher. However, if they seem to be dying a lot, it's also helpful to take a moment to tell them that buying potions etc is a useful way to avoid some deaths. They may not listen to you, but at least you tried. But, most newer players, like anyone, would like to avoid dying! Helping them learn ways to avoid dying is a good thing for all concerned.

Gear wise, realize that newer players, especially those unfamiliar to D&D mechanics, often have no idea what is needed. If weapons such as a vorpal, smiter, disrupter, paralyser and a metalline of pure good/holy silver/metalline flametouched iron/etc are good for quests/raids, then let newer players know this, especially if something specific is needed for a particular quest. Explain what the advantages are. Explain DR on mobs, and help newer players learn which kind of DR is associated with which mob. You can refer them to ddowiki, of course, but often right there in the quest is a useful teachable moment. Again, newer players want to learn how to contribute. Heavy fortification is something else that is important to continue to explain, especially since it *prevents* a bad effect rather than *creates* a good one. Unlike damage bonuses, which produces obvious big numbers on mobs, it is harder for newer players to realize when gear is helping them avoid things, because the information isn't as readily apparent. Also, tell newer players what gear to look out for on the AH or as end rewards. A lot of the prefixes and suffixes on weapons look awesome but not all of them are good in reality, as you know. Newer players don't know this. Note: if you don't feel like explaining/teaching in a quest, then don't. That's fine. But, if that's the case, either don't group with newer players to begin with or be prepared to accept the fact that they may make mistakes that you can do nothing about. It happens.


5. PnP
Some players will come from a PnP background. This is both good and bad. While many of the weapons and mobs will be familiar to them, it won't be obvious at first that DDO is a whole new world, and that lots of things in PnP don't work the same way in DDO. This may require extra patience, especially when you see different players making the same false assumptions over and over. At the same time, some newer players won't care that you have played DDO since beta (many will, but some won't). That's just human nature. This doesn't mean that they don't want to learn the game, but rather that their game experience is going to be necessarily very different from what yours was. MMOs evolve, pure and simple. The "I walked uphill both ways" card is rarely taken positively.


In summary, this isn't to say that you can't continue to enjoy the game the way that you have until now. Of course you can, but if you adamantly want to preserve the purity of your ideal experience, then you might consider doing it only with people you already know to be like-minded players. However, if you *are* going to run endgame stuff with newer players (and I hope you do!), be prepared to take into account the fact that not everyone will have had the opportunity yet to raise their game to your level. This doesn't mean that they won't want to learn and try and improve. And while some of them will probably give up or fail or be annoying, not all of them will. Some will slowly over time grow and improve - but they won't do this overnight. After all, it took you 2-3-4 years to achieve your level of game experience and gear. Newer players have to deal with something that you never ever had to deal with in all your experience: A highly-visible cohort of powerful veteran experienced players who have mastered the most challenging parts of the game. It is natural that they would want to learn from you, but also natural to be frustrated at times by feeling excluded from easy access to that world. If you choose to not admit other players into your runs, then this is of course your right and your choice - you should have fun in the game that way that you feel is right. In fact, careful screening may be for the best if running with less experienced players makes you angry or upset or frustrated. But, don't be mistaken that this is anything other than a form of elitism. I'd like to think, however, that new players are not mutually exclusive with your kind of fun, at least not in the long run.

[Aranticus]

wonderful +1 to ya. everything is about perception. the way to empathise about others is to make what you feel to others so in return, they let u know what they feel

The issue is whether segregation is really the answer, I guess.

segregation is never the answer to anything. ask rosa parks

The reality is that most players are probably in the middle -- trying to learn the game but without the knowledge or gear yet to really master the game the same way that many veteran players have. Yet, some veteran players treat play-style not as a continuum, but as a category: Anyone who does not 'max' the game (either in speed or gear or XX) is a flower-sniffer. This is unfair because it treats what often is a circumstance (lack of gear/experience) as a choice (a phantom "decision" to traipse merrily through dungeons).

the seasoned player must realise that there are various types of new players and these too have the capability to learn and grow. in the same way, not all vets are the selfish zerg types. many newer players think all vets must be elitist, unfortunately they have no idea

What is important for newer players to understand is the ~logic~ behind choices in build and gear -- and why some choices (like high Con) are "obvious" while other choices may be just that: Choices. Once a newer player has a handle on what the options are, then they may decide (or not) to min-max as best they can.

But, beyond trying to explain why some choices may be counterproductive, don't belittle or somehow demean other individuals' selections of gear and builds in the process. Making people feel defensive about something they have spent time and effort on is generally not helpful.

this is where most of the misunderstanding comes in. even with logic, some will still argue with you based on schematics or definition of certain words. its sometimes wise for a newer player to shut up and listen instead of arguing every single detail (forums is a very good place to see this happening)

as to the vets, do not force the information down their throat. if a newbie want to learn it the hard way, let him do so. if they continuously exhibit that kind of mentality, ignore. focus your attention on those who genuninely wants to learn

If a new player is already on the forums, then assume that they want to learn

When telling people that a certain thing needs to be done, be prepared to explain why.They won't always have the gear/skill to smoothly accomplish those goals, but they want to contribute.

Most importantly, it's about communication. If doing something differently could have an especially negative impact, let people know about this ahead of time. If that negative thing happens, chalk it up to part of the challenge of grouping with other people and take a moment to explain why that was negative.

i wouldnt go with assuming anything, if the forums is any indication, some of the newer players join just to be a royal pain in the behind

skill-wise, we cant do too much but item wise ive been giving out random pieces of useful loot in the marketplace to help equip random players. i also keep a bank worth of DR bypassing weapons for newer players to loan when tacking the higher content. these are just some ways the vets are contributing back

take negative feedback positively. it helps a person grow. it doesnt matter that much if i only say nice things. its the bad things that usually kills. ie if you driving instructor only tells you how well you stop the car or accelerate but doesnt tell you that you are driving on the wrong side. if a new player has a great idea and if you are too afraid to say it out, PM the leader before the quests start. if the leader doesnt take up the suggestion, do not take it to heart

Some new players are on their first character and won't have a ton of plat saved up yet.

On the other hand, it's okay to let a newer player die. Death is often the best teacher.

vets can really help here by offloading certain gear into the brokers instead of AH. some players have been profiteering from newer players and i do my best to stop these players by calling them out in general chat. that said, its not unreasonable to save up some plat for some pots. we do not need players to have 100 of each. maybe 10-20 is a good number to start more importantly, there isnt a need to buy each and every piece of gear off the AH

dying is the best teacher, i cant agree with you more

MMOs evolve, pure and simple. The "I walked uphill both ways" card is rarely taken positively.

learn and let go, be always prepared to face things in a different light

[donnala]

Don't feel that way.

Instead, make sure to gauge your experience and strengths, and be honest with yourself and those you're grouping with. As Aranticus said, if you're a new player, don't join a quest up on elite that you've never run before--that's just an example of gauging yourself.

On the flip-side, when you join a group, if you aren't sure what to do, ask. Ask questions. About anything: where to go, what you should be doing, what to expect, what weapons or spells you may need, what gear you should have or for advice about your character. As long as you aren't being pushy about it I'm sure some people will step up and lend you a hand. The thing that ****es me (and most other vets I know) off more than almost anything else is players who appear to be wafting through the game, looking for a free ride, who clearly are making no effort to contribute to their groups. The folks whose first words upon joining a party are, "Share please," rather than asking where the quest giver is, or even a general salutation.

I can't speak for everyone, but in my groups, if you're asking questions and genuinely trying, I'll put up with quite a bit of noobishness, go slower, explain things in great detail (even things that you won't be doing yourself, such as what the rogue who ran off in the other direction is doing, or why that caster is waiting there, etc...).

My goal is to learn as much as I can about the game before I play with anyone. I fear reading a thread of how I ruined someone's fun because I made a mistake. I am just a beginner and there is a great deal to learn.

It seems to me that most people take this game very seriously and mistakes are very much frowned upon. It is threads like this that scare me enough to keep soloing so when I do make mistakes I am the only one who knows it.

The good thing for me is that I learn from what I do wrong, but I still think it will take a very long time before I will be confident enough to play with the experienced players.

[lazylaz]

What server are you on Donnala? I'm more than happy to run a few quests with you if you're on Khyber. I wont mind if you ask questions the whole time or make any mistakes

[donnala]

What server are you on Donnala? I'm more than happy to run a few quests with you if you're on Khyber. I wont mind if you ask questions the whole time or make any mistakes

Yes I have a character on Khyber. This is a very kind offer and I will give it some thought. Still being so new I worry that I am not good enough.

Thank you for your kind offer though.

Donnala

[pSINNa]

I've really got no idea what all the chest puffing and brow beating is all about.

The original post made a great deal of sense.

I found it in no way at all offensive to anyone (unless their sensibilities are a little too fine tuned).

Taking the advice given on board could save you a lot of frustration and wasted time.


I have no idea why some people seem to be reading more into it then what was said.

If i could +1 you OP, i would.

Coit out~

[lazylaz]

Yes I have a character on Khyber. This is a very kind offer and I will give it some thought. Still being so new I worry that I am not good enough.

Thank you for your kind offer though.

Donnala

No problem, really. Send me a PM on the forums here and we can hook up a time that suits if you ever want to. I don't know everything but I know plenty, and have a fair bit of patience.

Good luck anyway.

[Postumus]

many newer players think all vets must be elitist, unfortunately they have no idea

I don't think that, but when you phrase statements like this:

its sometimes wise for a newer player to shut up and listen

This:

if the forums is any indication, some of the newer players join just to be a royal pain in the behind

And this:

take negative feedback positively. it helps a person grow.

It sounds condescending and self-important to me, and really detracts from what you are trying to communicate. It didn't help that you began the thread with one of the classic arrogant statements of all time (paraphrasing): "I know some of you won't agree with me, but this is the truth."


I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, I'm just giving you my honest impression as a new player.


You might also consider that it isn't what you are trying to tell new players, or the personalities of the players themselves that cause them to ignore your message, so much as how you communicate it to them.


If you could focus more on the content of your message rather than the righteousness of it, I think you'd find the new player portion of your audience more likely to listen to what you have to say.


As it is now, your message is coming across as "You kids today! When I was your age blah blah blah..."


Who wants to listen to that?

[Mr_Ed7]

That's a lot of hot air OP.

There are plenty of us "vets" that still play to have fun and "stop and smell the roses".

Your post offered some advice but I feel it was more doom than encouraging words.

To quote a recent EPIC run:

Other Guy (#6 spot): "YOU MUST HAVE THE PROPER GEAR TO COMPLETE EPIC QUESTS OR DONT BOTHER.

GAME: QUEST COMPLETE

ME: "Well none of us have the "proper" gear and we just completed the quest, so what does that mean?"


So what you are purporting as some sort of "truth", that to have fun one must:

• Stack numbers
• Know what your doing or don't bother
• Have the "proper" gear

All of the above are unneccesary to fully enjoy this game.

Once again your opinion is wrong.

[Postumus]

My goal is to learn as much as I can about the game before I play with anyone. I fear reading a thread of how I ruined someone's fun because I made a mistake. I am just a beginner and there is a great deal to learn.

It seems to me that most people take this game very seriously and mistakes are very much frowned upon. It is threads like this that scare me enough to keep soloing so when I do make mistakes I am the only one who knows it.

A lot of us new players are like little kids right now. We're just running around exploring with wide-eyed excitement, and enjoying the hell out of this game. We're making mistakes, and picking classes, gear, feats, races b/c they look or sound cool, not b/c some min/maxer has spent 800 hours analyzing why a WF sorcerer is better than an elven one.


Eventually we'll figure out what works and what doesn't as we accumulate bruises and bumps along the way.


Eventually we'll figure out that CON is king and giving fighters 14 CHA doesn't translate into DDO the same way it does PnP. We'll figure out what order to do quests and what gear stacks with what.


We'll learn what questions to ask and how to ask them; and THAT is when we will need your advice the most. When we come looking for it.


But the non-stop complaining, nitpicking, and un-solicited criticism of our play is a real buzzkill.



Remember that scene in Willy Wonka where all the kids are let into the chocolate factory for the first time and they all run around exploring and tasting everything in sight? Now imagine that Gene Wilder started criticizing their choices and actions:

"Charlie, you NooB! Get away from those daffodil teacups! Don't you know there is higher sugar content and more flavor in the giant gummy bears hanging from the tree??"


"Veruca, I told you to stop wasting your time eating that grass! If you want to maximize your mint experience, you should be concentrating on the candy lily pads! Everyone knows they're FIVE TIMES MINTIER!"

So yeah, it kinda comes across like that.

[Aranticus]

If you could focus more on the content of your message rather than the righteousness of it, I think you'd find the new player portion of your audience more likely to listen to what you have to say

i'm not being self righteous about it, what i'm doing over here is to give you what the season players perceive lock stock and barrel. i'm not going to politically correct and cuddle people. such things have been going on long enough

[Aranticus]

That's a lot of hot air OP.

There are plenty of us "vets" that still play to have fun and "stop and smell the roses".

Your post offered some advice but I feel it was more doom than encouraging words.

To quote a recent EPIC run:

Other Guy (#6 spot): "YOU MUST HAVE THE PROPER GEAR TO COMPLETE EPIC QUESTS OR DONT BOTHER.

GAME: QUEST COMPLETE

ME: "Well none of us have the "proper" gear and we just completed the quest, so what does that mean?"


So what you are purporting as some sort of "truth", that to have fun one must:

• Stack numbers
• Know what your doing or don't bother
• Have the "proper" gear

All of the above are unneccesary to fully enjoy this game.

Once again your opinion is wrong.

lol MrEd7, we all know your history