VOD drama

[Astraghal]

the run just to the raid is an adrenaline rush as you try to keep up, not get lost, not fall off the black on black marked pathways and try to play smart so you don't die to mobs (i tend to step back a bit to keep out of reach of mobs when meleeing... but you can step right off the edge... and then you have to find the steps to get back up again! lol. do that a few times and you'll soon learn where the steps are!).

It's fun although I find it a bit scary.

I secretly enjoy when someone falls down into the void, so I have an excuse to go down and recover their stone.

that's a lot of death.

the last hard VOD run i did i think i was the only person who died (on my gimpy bard Mellinister) - while trying to draw attention to the trash that had got stuck on the main tank while the rest of the party were dealing with trash on the other side of the room...

"Guys!!! Guys!!! there's trash on the main tank!!!"

<death>

sigh.

funny raid but...

What?! When I'm tanking VoD, I WANT all the trash AND the boss on me. It's safer for everyone that way.

As an aside, the only problem I have with VoD (and in many raids/quests/situations for that matter), are the rangers/arcanes who stand at the opposite side of the room firing their spike damage projectile/spells into the boss. They just don't seem to get why it's bad to have a raid boss teleporting around, far away from the main tank, who probably has chains, then kiting the boss AWAY from instead of towards the group AND THEN PROCEEDING TO DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

Some of them are just completely oblivious to aggro mechanics ('bad luck just seems to follow me around..')

Some of them insist on role-playing their toons ('I'm a ranger dude, I'm supposed to range..')

Some of them seem to belong to the school of 'hurr hurr I gots argro off teh intimidaterer' (even though the smiting/critting/raging, pally/fighter/barb can't make him turn.. they must be uber)

Which brings me to this:

For all you pew pew people doing raids and reading this, the fact that you can steal aggro with ranged attacks is because the AI is programmed to have an answer to ranged attackers, whether it's throwing a meteor swarm/delayed blast fireball, teleporting over to you, or ignoring all the melees and making a mad dash for you.

You are only causing chaos by interfering with the establishment of aggro and jeopardising the completion of the raid by persisting to do it, especially after being told. Whatever damage you might be contributing is negated in the time it takes for the melees to pause and get the aggro that you can't handle or survive <ding!> back off your madly kiting @$$ each time you do it.

Every time I'm in a VoD or ToD where the aggro is messing up, I look around and sure enough, there's someone standing right back pew pewing the boss. STOP IT!

[Bolo_Grubb]

Additional issues with VoD:

1) It is one of only two raids (Hound) that has no flagging mechanism. Thus, it can be immediately run by players as soon as they are VIP or have purchased the Vale pack. Many newer players can run it quickly. Without much exposure to a previous raid besides tempest spine. (another drama fest)

a little off track, but is there a flagging requirement for tempest spine? I can't remember.

[NaturalHazard]

I play a ranger (tempest) and I dont range suulo. I do however sometimes manyshot the bats when they swarm, seems to kill a bunch with improved precise shot( I only started doing this when people asked me to. And tempest 3 and monk windstance duel weilding vorp kama's seem to work a treat for dealing with the trash devils, (well on norm, hard). In nearly every vod ive run I seem to lead the kill count by a fair bit, (im the trash collecter). Also I noticed when my ac went up over 60 to mid 60"s it made a big difference when the orthons swarm even on hard.

Weird first time running reavers (ever) yesterday on elite no clerics/fs/ or bards in the party but we had a fair number of pallys and rangers 2 monks but they where dark. Anyway the leader asks me to tank the reaver as I had the highest ac, i was doubtful but it worked out fine, I healed myself and never once got below 80% of health. Only problem was a wizard insisted on firewalling the reaver and throwing spells at him(even though the leader was yelling at him to stop). I had no itimidate so was hard to get agro back and I didnt want to go running off afte the reaver so I pulled out my bow and hit manyshot to bring him back to me.

This is the first time and hopefully the last time I will ever have to tank but the leader thanked me at the end and said I had done a good job.

[NaturalHazard]

a little off track, but is there a flagging requirement for tempest spine? I can't remember.

Nope, not that im aware of, i mean i just rock up to that chick in house J and go straight into the raid.

[Fomori]

a little off track, but is there a flagging requirement for tempest spine? I can't remember.

Nope, but since it does not drop premium Bound loot or have a timer most people dont consider it a "raid". Its just a 12 man quest instead of 6.

[sweez]

Heh, had a bard once who ranged the Pit Fiend in the end of Weapons Shipment, he was SO proud that he pulled his aggro, even threw a comment "haha how much damage are you guys dealing to him if I can get him with a few ranged shots?".

Good times.

[NaturalHazard]

Nope, but since it does not drop premium Bound loot or have a timer most people dont consider it a "raid". Its just a 12 man quest instead of 6.

Is it considered a kindergarden for people who want to start doing raids?

[Renvar]

Is it considered a kindergarden for people who want to start doing raids?

Nah. As mentioned, its not really a raid. Reaver's Fate is more like kindergarten for raiding. You have to try hard to fail that raid. Your first 2-3 times you can just stand around and watch and learn if you need to.


Although, TS is a good training ground for healers. Many healers have to learn how to deal with 2-3 healers in the party and with 12 health bars to watch over.

It is rare to have two healers in a 6 man group and if you do, one typically is main healing and the other switches to melee or cc/offensive casting. To be able to team heal without overhealing and wasting mana takes some getting used to. And watching 12 people's health is also a bit more work than 6. Especially at a time when you might not have much in the way of mass healing available.

For the melees and casters, though, its basically just a long quest with lots of chests.

[k1ngp1n]

I find your assessments of the items, and the fact that your calling arcanes 'bad or silly' for insisting that the bracers are an arcane-only set offensive. Besides, the fire shield 'clicky' takes up a far more important slot for most, if not all, barbarians.

It's not a clickie, it's a guard. There are situations in which a barb absolutely, desperately wants/needs fire shield. This is the only way.

I'd argue that a 20 barb needs the bracers more than it needs the goggles.

[unscythe]

It's not a clickie, it's a guard. There are situations in which a barb absolutely, desperately wants/needs fire shield. This is the only way.

I'd argue that a 20 barb needs the bracers more than it needs the goggles.

True Sight seems pretty useful.

[Renvar]

I secretly enjoy when someone falls down into the void, so I have an excuse to go down and recover their stone.



What?! When I'm tanking VoD, I WANT all the trash AND the boss on me. It's safer for everyone that way.

As an aside, the only problem I have with VoD (and in many raids/quests/situations for that matter), are the rangers/arcanes who stand at the opposite side of the room firing their spike damage projectile/spells into the boss. They just don't seem to get why it's bad to have a raid boss teleporting around, far away from the main tank, who probably has chains, then kiting the boss AWAY from instead of towards the group AND THEN PROCEEDING TO DO IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

Some of them are just completely oblivious to aggro mechanics ('bad luck just seems to follow me around..')

Some of them insist on role-playing their toons ('I'm a ranger dude, I'm supposed to range..')

Some of them seem to belong to the school of 'hurr hurr I gots argro off teh intimidaterer' (even though the smiting/critting/raging, pally/fighter/barb can't make him turn.. they must be uber)

Which brings me to this:

For all you pew pew people doing raids and reading this, the fact that you can steal aggro with ranged attacks is because the AI is programmed to have an answer to ranged attackers, whether it's throwing a meteor swarm/delayed blast fireball, teleporting over to you, or ignoring all the melees and making a mad dash for you.

You are only causing chaos by interfering with the establishment of aggro and jeopardising the completion of the raid by persisting to do it, especially after being told. Whatever damage you might be contributing is negated in the time it takes for the melees to pause and get the aggro that you can't handle or survive <ding!> back off your madly kiting @$$ each time you do it.

Every time I'm in a VoD or ToD where the aggro is messing up, I look around and sure enough, there's someone standing right back pew pewing the boss. STOP IT!

Although I agree with you about rangers and pew pew, I am not a fan of intim tanking suulu. The aggro mechanism is much more stable with DPS tanking. When I or guildies tank suulu with a Kensai/FB tank, he never switches aggro, except for those scheduled breaks where he teleports to his platform and whines like a little baby and then comes back for another spanking.

[sirgog]

Additional issues with VoD:

1) It is one of only two raids (Hound) that has no flagging mechanism. Thus, it can be immediately run by players as soon as they are VIP or have purchased the Vale pack. Many newer players can run it quickly. Without much exposure to a previous raid besides tempest spine. (another drama fest)

2) VOD is one of few raids that you can't sleepwalk through. 7-8 members of the party can take a nap in Hound, Reaver, or DQ and you will still get completion. Shroud, VoD, Abbott, and ToD, however require more coordination and participation.

Add these issues for newer players to all the experienced players grinding key loot and you have very nice drama potential.

If you have three or more really high AC characters (70+ on normal, 75+ hard, 80+ elite), it's actually easier if all of the other 7-9 toons do 'sleepwalk' (i.e. die and then don't take a raise but wander in circles as a ghost) through it. Takes a while this way, but noone takes much damage at all (and you can expect 0 mana potion usage).

Note that only one group in a hundred will have three AC toons in it, and they probably won't know they do because the AC builds are too ashamed to tell each other their little secret.


**Edit: Just because it's easier this way doesn't mean I let the extra party members die if I encounter a group like this. Should have been clearer. I'd rather a fast completion that uses one mana potion to a slow one that uses none.

[Aranticus]

If you have three or more really high AC characters (70+ on normal, 75+ hard, 80+ elite), it's actually easier if all of the other 7-9 toons do 'sleepwalk' (i.e. die and then don't take a raise but wander in circles as a ghost) through it. Takes a while this way, but noone takes much damage at all (and you can expect 0 mana potion usage).

Note that only one group in a hundred will have three AC toons in it, and they probably won't know they do because the AC builds are too ashamed to tell each other their little secret.

the problem isnt the ac. the problem is having a group that can actually work together. i've healed many vod elites and i never have to use pots unless its a pug where the caster doesnt debuff, cc, haste. where the other cleric is only interested in using aura and the blue bar is for decoration purposes. the other fvs is a melee despite its wielding 2 scimitars with 8 base str. the melees have no fortification and are too stupid to fight in cc. the bard sings a song without extra APs and then run in the spikes die, take res, die, etc

[unscythe]

the problem isnt the ac. the problem is having a group that can actually work together. i've healed many vod elites and i never have to use pots unless its a pug where the caster doesnt debuff, cc, haste. where the other cleric is only interested in using aura and the blue bar is for decoration purposes. the other fvs is a melee despite its wielding 2 scimitars with 8 base str. the melees have no fortification and are too stupid to fight in cc. the bard sings a song without extra APs and then run in the spikes die, take res, die, etc

Sounds like a fun train wrecks.

Pugging does mean that the group will never be in perfect sync. But getting a group for elite VoD seems like fun on older servers anyways.

[Aranticus]

Sounds like a fun train wrecks.

Pugging does mean that the group will never be in perfect sync. But getting a group for elite VoD seems like fun on older servers anyways.

elite vods on older servers typically consist of at least 50% of a single guild from what i've seen. and usually most tend to be done using private channels and not lfm

[Renvar]

If you have three or more really high AC characters (70+ on normal, 75+ hard, 80+ elite), it's actually easier if all of the other 7-9 toons do 'sleepwalk' (i.e. die and then don't take a raise but wander in circles as a ghost) through it. Takes a while this way, but noone takes much damage at all (and you can expect 0 mana potion usage).

Note that only one group in a hundred will have three AC toons in it, and they probably won't know they do because the AC builds are too ashamed to tell each other their little secret.

That depends on your definition of "easier". Easier for the healer, I guess, to only heal 1-3 people, but I'm not sure that's best for the party.

I agree with Aranticus, the reason you are letting 9 people die and only healing a couple chosen is more due to coordination and teamwork than it is AC. Maybe leadership issues, maybe players with head stuck firmly in a place that doesn't make it easy to see monitor screen. But that strategy should be unnecessary most of the time, even in a pug.

[unscythe]

elite vods on older servers typically consist of at least 50% of a single guild from what i've seen. and usually most tend to be done using private channels and not lfm

Well atleast its basically pugging, but yeah iv'e only done guild runs with maybe a few players whom we knew pretty well.

[sirgog]

the problem isnt the ac. the problem is having a group that can actually work together. i've healed many vod elites and i never have to use pots unless its a pug where the caster doesnt debuff, cc, haste. where the other cleric is only interested in using aura and the blue bar is for decoration purposes. the other fvs is a melee despite its wielding 2 scimitars with 8 base str. the melees have no fortification and are too stupid to fight in cc. the bard sings a song without extra APs and then run in the spikes die, take res, die, etc

I never intended to imply that you need such a group at all (I've only ever been in a couple of these types of groups) - just if you happen to come across one, that this is a valid strategy that's easier than the standard 'heaviest-hitting WF tank threat tanks Suulo, enormous damage is taken and healed through.

I usually use 0-2 mana potions on Elite runs when healing, plus 20-150 Heal scrolls (depending on the group's caliber). And I tend to keep all of the group up except obvious ****tards.

[Thrudh]

It's not a clickie, it's a guard. There are situations in which a barb absolutely, desperately wants/needs fire shield. This is the only way.

I'd argue that a 20 barb needs the bracers more than it needs the goggles.

Get an ice cloak, dismiss rage, use cloak, re-rage.

[drobbins]

It's not really that much of a potential-drama-hotbed; just try to run with players/guilds you know, or at least ones you know are good. It will be a piece of cake.

Personally its probably my favorite raid, just because I'm almost always on my rogue and end up dominating the kill count about 75% of the time ... its a perfect setup for a rogue to apply their DPS capabilities: a tiny enclosed room, with spikes in the center, in which there are 8 or so hulking fighter-types that tend to draw aggro right as the mobs spawn, leaving you clear to SA and/or vorpal nearly everything (which is a lot).

Still though, its hella fun even on my bard or wizzie. Just go with a good group or it can be painful.