Ranged combat vs PvP

[h4x0r1f1c]

When a ranger uses Manyshot and Slayer Arrows in PvP they get a 20% chance to proc on you.

That along with their normal damage, them wearing a Mantle of the Worldshaper, and having over 450 HP is kind of unfair.

Not to mention the STR damage to prevent you from repairing yourself.

Slayer Arrows are a poor way to improve ranged combat. They're ranging things. They aren't supposed to be as good as melee. With Slayer Arrows they become better than melee.

I'm just glad they don't get any stunning or trip arrows because then we'd really be screwed.

Any suggestions on ways Turbine should nerf this?

Also this is a PvP thread if you don't like it don't come to the PvP forums.

[Angelus_dead]

Yes, they are overpowered in PVP. (And also overpowered in PVE compared to other kinds of ranged weapon abilities)

But it's well-known that DDO's PVP design has paid minimal attention to balance.

[r3dl4nce]

Welcome to PvP in DDO, everything is unbalanced. I hope you enjoy your staying.

[h4x0r1f1c]

I would make a ranger myself but I'd hate playing it.

They can disable Slayer Arrows in PvP, or give you an immunity to it besides blocking.

I can't throw a Wall of Fire down there to catch 'em on their way down so they should accomodate.

[Waukeen]

I find it very funny that you are the leader of a guild called GRIEFERS and you are crying about someone able to stop a toaster cannon dead in PvP,

besides the obvious, who cares about PvP, and it is terribly tilted towards casters,

go get em arcane archers... pew pew pew!

[Phidius]

Better hope they come up with a Wish spell that will allow you to modify the game to fit the way you want to play it.

[Ystradmynach]

If you are really that concerned about a ranger four levels above you beating you, maybe you should ask them to fix deflect arrow. That and go pick up some bramble-casters. And memorize magic missile so you can take out their mantles.

And maybe change the pvp venue to another location where they can't just climb out to safety.

[RobbinB]

I could use the excuse that DDO is about PvE not PvP. But the truth is that slayer arrows are bad design...period.

Once you have slayer arrows they obsolete all other uses for any of the other available AA arrows...and the damage is always 500 pts...no save. They apply to absolutely everything. Terrible implimentation.

Arcane archers have 4 available arrow options based on force, fire, acid, and "fear/slayage" paths. All these options should have viable uses or strengths against certain monster types. One line might be the most average damage across the board, one huge damage but only against a small percentage of mobs, one a debuff-line, etc....

Instead we got slayer arrows...yikes! (I'd insert additional dev comments here but I'm not sure if new forum rules might apply)

[r3dl4nce]

slayer arraows is the only way that ranged can be useful in ddo

[Seamonkeysix]

I could use the excuse that DDO is about PvE not PvP. But the truth is that slayer arrows are bad design...period.

Once you have slayer arrows they obsolete all other uses for any of the other available AA arrows...and the damage is always 500 pts...no save. They apply to absolutely everything. Terrible implimentation.

Arcane archers have 4 available arrow options based on force, fire, acid, and "fear/slayage" paths. All these options should have viable uses or strengths against certain monster types. One line might be the most average damage across the board, one huge damage but only against a small percentage of mobs, one a debuff-line, etc....

Instead we got slayer arrows...yikes! (I'd insert additional dev comments here but I'm not sure if new forum rules might apply)

Right....and get rid of monk "touch of death" while you are at it...and polar ray...and vorpal...and lighting strike...and disintegration guard...and corrosive salt...and (insert any other massive damage ability). /sigh

Slaying arrows are the only real thing an archer has in DDO that actually helps put them anywhere close (and they are still far behind), in the DPS realm. Saying "OMG 500 points of damage!!!" is such an overstatement when you have bosses with a million hit points.

The only thing that you are saying by saying get rid of slaying arrows is that you don't have a ranged ranger and you don't get it. (Or that you are one of the 7 WF casters in the lobster doing PvP).

If slaying arrows were really overpowered, you'd see every competative, DPS loving twinkster in the game running around with them. When's the last time you saw and LFM saying, "Need as many AAs as possible with slaying arrow for DPS"?

That's what I thought...

[Ystradmynach]

I could use the excuse that DDO is about PvE not PvP. But the truth is that slayer arrows are bad design...period.

Once you have slayer arrows they obsolete all other uses for any of the other available AA arrows...and the damage is always 500 pts...no save. They apply to absolutely everything. Terrible implimentation.

But the imbues is the only ability that AA actually get from their PrE, aside from summoning a stack of arrows, which just a matter of convenience for the most part. Slayer arrows are dispellable and only works on a confirmed critical on a roll of a natural 20. Slayer arrow is not more powerful than an assassins ability to vorpal their weapons (which is only part of their PrE btw), or a monk's touch of death which they can use whenever they have the ki for it.

Anyway, I agree that a lot of the other imbues become almost obsolete at higher levels, but that is because the imbue doesn't scale. I think the other imbues should be treated like a real spell since they are dispelled like one, and we should be allowed to enhance the damage with items or metamagic feats.

[Holymosher]

im jsut stating a rangers, side of the story, without all those, we are totally gimped in partys, besides that we already sorda on, - my opinon, i love rangers in pvp there, fun, theres so much other stuff we lack than other classes, i got squelched today, cause someguy said i camped like a eagle and waited for ppl than jmuped down and killed them? i was like lol i was just having fun, rangers are so hated, we should be having upgrades, nto downgrades, wit all the hate we get, anyways, my advice to maker of thsi thread, shhh secret, neg level them, and go for the kill our weakness

[Holymosher]

slayer arraows is the only way that ranged can be useful in ddo

ya exactly, without slayer arrows, there might as well not be rangers in DDO

[Seamonkeysix]

im jsut stating a rangers, side of the story, without all those, we are totally gimped in partys, besides that we already sorda on, - my opinon, i love rangers in pvp there, fun, theres so much other stuff we lack than other classes, i got squelched today, cause someguy said i camped like a eagle and waited for ppl than jmuped down and killed them? i was like lol i was just having fun, rangers are so hated, we should be having upgrades, nto downgrades, wit all the hate we get, anyways, my advice to maker of thsi thread, shhh secret, neg level them, and go for the kill our weakness

From the standpoint of PvP, you can look at AAs as the "Dive bombers" of PvP. You scream in as fast as you can, drop your payload, hope you hit your target, and get the h*ll out. You don't buzz around and taunt the battleship.

[AltheaSteelrain]

NO

It ruins the fun of using sprint + Fascinate + trip + Stun on an AA. LOL

[Karavek]

When a ranger uses Manyshot and Slayer Arrows in PvP they get a 20% chance to proc on you.

That along with their normal damage, them wearing a Mantle of the Worldshaper, and having over 450 HP is kind of unfair.

Not to mention the STR damage to prevent you from repairing yourself.

Slayer Arrows are a poor way to improve ranged combat. They're ranging things. They aren't supposed to be as good as melee. With Slayer Arrows they become better than melee.

I'm just glad they don't get any stunning or trip arrows because then we'd really be screwed.

Any suggestions on ways Turbine should nerf this?

Also this is a PvP thread if you don't like it don't come to the PvP forums.

As someone who wants to see pvp balanced I do feel what your saying on some aspects. However no by default melee is not suppose to be superior, its suppose to be equal.

Ranged should always be the ideal choice until one can close. Closing should be difficult, and if they ever give us good tactical terrain to pvp in then things like cliff edges and murder holes will really make you understand why being pure melee is not a good idea.

PVP balance will be one epic bit of work if they ever do try to do it at all. Which considering how few of us dare to post in the pvp forums, and how it dooms our rep here best you can do is speak and hope

[cpito]

slayer arrows is the only way that inexperienced ranged can be useful in ddo

fixed

[Memnir]

In PvP - there will always be something perceived as unfair that makes others cry, "nerf this! nerf this!"
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Honestly, if you can't handle PvP without complaining about it - don't go in. I hate PvP, and I know this... so it always astounds me that the aficionados of it can't quite wrap their heads around that rather basic concept.

[sirgog]

Gotta love the trolling here.

It's the PvP forums, and a reasonable suggestion that, if restricted to PvP pits only, would improve the OP's fun without impacting yours at all.

[Memnir]

Gotta love the trolling here.

It's the PvP forums, and a reasonable suggestion that, if restricted to PvP pits only, would improve the OP's fun without impacting yours at all.

Unless you are a Ranger who happens to have fun with Slayer Arrows. In that case, the OP's suggestion would rather be impacting their fun, no?

Besides, once the nerf train gets going in PvP... it won't stop. Nerf Slayer Arrows, nerf Touch of Death next. And then any other insta-death spells. Or massive damage spells. Or vorpals - because somebody might not have Deathward. etc etc etc


PvP is what it is. Either be okay with it, or avoid it.