GTHF or Toughness

[eveilsor666]

My Dwarf Barbarian is about to hit level 18.

I haven't taken a Toughness FEAT on it and currently sit at 420 Hitpoints. 522 when raged.

I took Stunning Blow as my last FEAT and it is working out quite nicely for the time being, not sure how effective it will be in later content though.

If I take Toughness I gain another 20 hitpoints instantly with the option later to put a few AP's in it and gain maybe another 40. However, if I stick with Stunning Blow I will need those 6 points to put in Dwarven Tactics to bump its DC up and I am all ready quite starved AP wise.

GTHF would have been a no brainer before but I took it on my Palladin after the nerf and I haven't really noticed much difference.

What "exactly" does GTHF actually do now? I know you can no longer get glancing blows whilst moving and the "increase in glancing blow effects" looks nice but what exactly is the percentage increase? Does the FEAT do anything else, like increase your chance to Double Strike or anything like that?

[ghettoGenius]

Something is not right here. Please post your builds currently selected feats so we can get to the bottom of this.

[eveilsor666]

I used Shade's Max DPS Build Thread as a base, and have rejigged the AP's and FEATS a little but not by much:

Feats are

THF
iTHF
Power Attack
Cleave
Imp Crit Slashing
Stunning Blow

I'm using Great Axes, and have Frenzied Berserker II.

My Barb is currently doing Litany and Orchard stuff with my guild, and will be moving on to The Vale shortly. I'm very inexperienced in Amrath due to my first two builds not being too good out there solo and my guild tends to level our toons up to 20 before we get that far - or skip it and do Inspired Quarter. I've never ran a quest on EPIC and probably won't be doing so for a long time, especially on this toon.

So seen as this build essentially is not soloable any more I doubt I'll be using it for Amrath stuff so I am thinking Stunning Blow will remain usefull until that time potentially arrives for me to be using it out in Amrath. I've been stunnning the Non-Undead things in Necro4 quests with relative ease.

Right now I am leaning more towards taking Toughness, as it gives me a little bit more survivability as we all know Barbs need their nanny.

[ghettoGenius]

Alright, that doesn't look bad at all. I just think its odd to see a barb without toughness. I mean even my cleric has more standing HP than you currently. Personally I wouldn't go without it on this type of build.

It's basically a matter of personal preference as to which is more appropriate for your build and playstyle. I know stunning blow is very powerful, but I've managed to play for 4 years without it. If I played epics consistently I would definitely try to fit it in though. Remember you can still use trip effectively for some cc if needed. I imagine most prone mobs wont survive the pummeling a FB can dish out. The GTHF will boost your dps slightly and increase the chance of weapon effects on glancing blows, so if dps is your ultimate goal then this is the path I would choose.

[Cam_Neely]

I didnt take Toughness on my Barb either, and I'm very glad I took stunning blow instead. With 2 levels of dwarven tactics instead of the Toughness enhancements, Stunning blow lands a good amount (along with trip). I rage out close to 600 HP, and have not had issues with that. Considering when I get my MinII to take out improved crit and put in toughness, but not close enough yet to that to make up my mind

[eveilsor666]

Yep I completely agree with what you are saying.

I spam trip all the time, and it is very effective.

I'm just trying to figure out if a few extra hitpoints (22 at cap) is going to be better than the GTHF Feat. Not sure how many AP's I'd have spare to take more toughness, but unsure if GTHF is actually a worthwhile FEAT any more. I am very curious to know just what exactly the percentage increase to chance of glancing blow effect actually is.

---


Once I finally get my MinII's on this toon, which is also going to be a loooong way away as I'm still waiting just to make one Radiance weapon on my rogue, I will probably drop Imp Crit and change it to either TOUGHNESS or GTHF depending on which FEAT I take at lvl18.

I was having a lot of trouble doing shrouds with only 1 rogue and 1 sorc flagged for it. Now I have a monk and a bard/archer build flagged and about to have a Pally and this Barbarian flagged too so hopefully I'll be able to do a lot of shrouds a week now and start to get more Large Ingredients.

My monk doesnt really need Greensteel at all, my sorc needs 20Shrouds under his belt before I can make a Conc Opp item for it, and my Archer/Bard is more of a Fun/Haggle toon. My Pally has Holy Sword so my barbarian and rogue are the ones that need shroud items badly. I just crafted a Greensteel Greataxe for it but will be putting Pos Pos on it to begin with once it is Shroud Flagged until I get myself enough Larges to be able to think about creating a fully working MinII.

[LeLoric]

I dropped toughness for sb on my barb and am still raging for ~750 hp. If double madstoned ill break 800. The damage you negate by being able to incapacitate an enemy while you kill him is more than the extra hp for toughness. This changes for boss fights of course but barbs can still get more than enough hp to last while getting spammed with mass cures or heals.

[Samadhi]

I'm just trying to figure out if a few extra hitpoints (22 at cap) is going to be better .

If it was just 22 HP you would be right. But its not. It is 82 at minimum extra HP after enhancements. However, as to your primary question, it really depends on where you spend most of your time. If raiding, drop stunning blow. If not raiding, skipping GTHF makes more sense. Unless you are breaking 700 HP already, though, which currently you are not, then toughness is not optional.

[eveilsor666]

OK to take taking Toughness more viable for the Hitpoints I have removed Dwarven Spell Defence and one Damage Reduction Enhancement and have an extra 50 hitpoints built into the build, on my planner.

Quick question.

Is Critcal Rage worth the FEAT? Will it mean, whilst raged, my Great Axe crits on a roll of 17-20 with Improved Crit? or 18-20? or is that not what this FEAT does? the description is ambiguous.

My End Game Enhancements look like this now:

Enhancements: Type - Name Rank - (Cost)

[barbarian] - Damage Boost IV (10)
[barbarian] - Power Rage IV (10)
[barbarian] - Power Attack III (6)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker I (4)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker II (2)
[barbarian] - Frenzy Berserker III (2)

[barbarian] - Sprint Boost I (1)
[barbarian] - Hardy Rage II (3)
[barbarian] - Critical Rage I (2)
[barbarian] - Improved Damage Reduction I (2)
[barbarian] - Extend Rage IV (10)
[barbarian] - Extra Rage I (1)
[barbarian] - Constitution I (2)
[barbarian] - Might Capstone (2)
[dwarf] - Dwarven Axe Damage II (6)
[dwarf] - Constituion I (2)

65 points

+

[barbarian] - Toughness III (6)
[dwarf] - Toughness II (3)

+

[dwarf] - Tactics II (6)

= 80

------

Alternatively I could drop

[barbarian] - Critical Rage I (2)
[barbarian] - Improved Damage Reduction I (2)

and add

[dwarven] - Spell Defense I (1)
[dwarf] - Toughness III (3)

and gain 10 hitpoints and 1 to whatever Spell Defense gives me, as I am not sure.

[khaldan]

Critical rage does not exist anymore.

Gah.

This isn't specifically directed at you, but rather at all the people using the planner. Critical rage is exclusive with FB, and is impossible to take since mod8 or so.

[redraider]

Drop THF and ITHF for 2x toughness. You won't miss them now.

[Rabscuttle]

You'll have plenty of HP when you cap out and gear up. Here's the breakdown:


240 --- Barbarian base HP for level 20.
60 ---- Starting CON score of 16
20 ---- Heroic Durability Feat (everyone gets this at level 1)
20 ---- Draconic Vitality
80 ---- Mighty Rage (Granted at level 20)
20 ---- Hardy Rage 2
20 ---- Minos Legens helmet
30 ---- Greater False Life item
45 ---- Green Steel HP item
60 ---- +6 CON item
20 ---- Rage potion or spell
40 ---- Madstone Boots
20 ---- +2 CON tome

675 HP raged, with basic gear. If we bump things up a bit, let's see what we get:

20 ---- Starting CON score of 18
20 ---- Berserker ToD Ring/Belt Set bonus
20 ---- Exceptional CON +2, crafted onto a ToD ring
20 ---- +4 CON tome
40 ---- Yugoloth CON potion (gives 2 con and another 20 HP)

795 now. Stretch just a little more, and we can add:

20 ---- Starting CON score of 20
40 ---- Second (clicked) madstone effect
20 ---- Exceptional CON +1 ; Hardy Rage 3

875 HP, no toughness feat. There are more HP boosts, such as House D or Turbine store potions. Plus, I've probably forgotten some in my list also.

I would personally recommend getting GTHF at your level 18 feat selection. Combat in this game is largely a joke, and when we're tanking a boss, we stand still and auto attack. Might as well have a little more damage output while you do it.

If you plan to swap out Improved Critical after you make your min2 Axe, you can put your toughness feat in there. Just remember to swap it back in once you finish your other Axes (lightning, fire, etc) since they won't have keen built in.

[Hanam]

I just recently swapped toughness for stunning blow on my 18barb/2rogue. I lost a total of about 70 hp, but I can now perform much better in Epic quests due to Stunning Blow.

I am still around 700 hp raged with normal buffs (rage spell & madstone) and I drink Turbine/Yugo pots when needed for an hp boost (ToD main tank)

Once you get your Shroud HP item, toughness is pretty much not needed.

[Vengenance]

I made mineral II's and dumped Improved Crit on my Barb allowing me to fit in both toughness and stunning blow.

[Tortavil]

I am Dropping GTHF and going with Stunning and Toughness.

As far as enhancements if you look at Shade's build you have 2 left over enhancements.

So go all 6 in stunning. and do the 2 left in Toughness 1 of each set. That will net you 42 of the 62 hps if you just went GTHF and Toughness, and you get all the stunning goodness.

Thats how im doing it at least.