why they follow to downgrade our class???

[CrimsonEagle]

As for the whole TOD ring thing... Why is it everyone gets their most powerful weapons from the shroud, something that even the worst PUGs can farm, yet monk need to run 18 successions of TOD to get their equivalent? Or am I missing something?

and this

[THOTHdha]

I first played a monk when the idea was to get high dex and ac and light was the only way to go because dark was a waste of space. Not sure why you are saying monks have been 'downgraded', monks have never been so strong, with TOD and +10 to stunning fist DCs.

/truth
I have been having a lot more fun with my Monk since this change. 5% irresistible stun was nice and all, but having save DCs in the mid/high 40s that I can control works even better!

My problem with the monk is that it is harder to get equilivent gear that Greensteel can provide at Level 12, with a lot of the monk's melee ability is backloaded for the tower rings.

While I agree that the ToD rings are harder to get than Greensteel, they are by no means out of the reach of anyone who wants them. You may not see ToD LFMs up 24/7 like you do Shroud, but I've joined several PUGs that went well.

light prestige for me is useless.....

While I wouldn't say that the two PrEs are useless, I was a bit underwhelmed by them. Shadow Fade and Sneak Attack damage are nice for Ninja-Spies, but to me the AP cost just isn't justified if you're Light. Maybe tier III will make them much more desirable.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

look! i like monk pure, but since a 3/4 month ago i am seeing a lot of splash, just 2 lvl in monk....for evasion and that's it!! why??? because they upgraded other classes and ppl enjoy to play with.

Actually, this has been happening almost since the class came out, because it is good for AC builds to get that WIS bonus to AC, and many of the classes that take the splash are looking for something more useful than their own capstone. Please search for the exploiter build, or any other with a splash of monk for further explanation. I mean, based on this argument, Pallies, Rogues, and Fighters are definitely underpowered and need a boost, since I've seen alot of builds using a one or two level splash of these classes over the past 3/4 months.

As far as monks being underpowered, I have played with a bunch of monks over the past month or two ,and I have no issues with them at all...in fact, I rather like the Light monk path...I am sorry to hear that it does not fit your playstyle, though. I have similar issues with the Rogue Mechanic, but that doesn't mean it's not a viable build/path/pre.

[Kevorkian]

As a light monk as my main, I will say the shintao path was fairly disappointing and getting Tod rings is a bit of a grind ( I'm still looking for Kyosho's because every melee in the game wants the set). My major beef is with handwrap ML requirements. Monks have to wait an additional 2 to 4 levels to use several of the more beneficial effects. While most players can benefit from banishing, GCB etc at approx lvl 12 they all show up on ML 14 handwraps. That coupled with the fact that Metaline/PG handwraps drop .00000001% of the time or you have to lucksack into a set of Devouts on your 1,000,000th ransack of Shadow Crypt.

My light monk shined in the mid levels and I feel that even tho I'm not super top level DPS without ToD rings, I still am not a detriment to any party/raid I'm part of by still providing decent DPS and spamming finishers ( generally Walk, Align and Moment of Clarity {which should last more than 10 seconds but not a minute}).

Right now I'm using a +5 Metaline Quarterstaff of PG as my dr breaker to pit fiend beat and swapping through several handwraps situationally (Imp. Destruction for red named orthons in Vod, GCBs for portals, Holy stunner +10 for trash mobs, +5 GUBs for Abbott etc.) So no matter what we're facing I have an option but it would be nice to trim down the 9 or 10 different handwrap sets I use to 2 or 3.

[rombys]

ok i really like this discussion, so ppl have normally points of view in base of playing style...
i think for example for caster how many eq exist in the game like spell pen, devotion, glaciacion , power I>II>III etc etc
and same thing on robe or outfit and other gears.....for monk just 2 that help to get ki, robe don' help monk in ac ok i can understand monk get ac from bracers or wis, but to have a robe we have to wait for dt or lucky ones for icy rainment, maybe we should wait to have the famous white scales and other go with +5 from lvl 8 or 6 don't remember.
i think monk need more and different eq, to have the insight bonus is too diffi, same thing in natural armor things,
but getting combustion glaciacion, devotion etc etc is very simple....
it is just my point of view....anyway i follow playing my monk i love her

[Boldrin]

Do you even comprehend the fact that there are monks running around with 80-90 AC and still doing great DPS?? Monks are amazing as they are... Nothing should be added or taken away.

[rombys]

i see.....in your character no monk...

[rombys]

i am talking about how difficoult is to get good eq respect other classes...too

[rimble]

Monks have been nothing but buffed since the day they came out.

Well that's not saying much. They were an absolute mess when they came out.

[Persnoody]

People wont like to hear this, but I used a met of pg q staff and later kamas until I had handwraps to break dr. Now I have met of evil outsider bane handwraps paired with holy burst/shocking burst ToD rings. While dr breakers are needed for certain bosses, I generally will use icy burst/acid of stunning +10 hws for everything else.

HAY! me too, except the metal of eob, i just use devouts in place

[~WickedWendigo]

I think the biggest benefit to the SHintao is the ability to break DR's, with the monks natural Adamantine, add in Byeshk for Shintoa I then Cold Iron for Shintoa II you really only need a set of silver threaded handwraps to get the full bonus of a Metaline handwrap. Now if I ever got my hands on a Holy Burst Silver of PG handwraps Id be in heaven and would prob roll a light based monk just for them. Combine that with a Lightning burst and an Acid Burst, put your monk in Earth stance with Jizdt bracers the main thing your missing over GS is the bonuses they give. Which I dont like that a Monk dosnt get those. You may say that a monk dosnt need the LitII proc with ToD but Im speaking of a light side monk here. I also bring to the table a Arcane Archers death arrow, they can combine that with a LitII to bring massive pain to a line of enemies.

[Hydro]

Monks have received more upgrades then any other class in the last 2 years. Without Greensteel wraps my Monk since the combat change has destroyed any other class for DPS. There is no need to complain about monks, they have buffed them beyond belief and they are the best at almost anything a melee can do.

[efreet5]

My thoughts on your posted comments and the Monk class today:

Actually, Monks have come a LOOOOONG way from when they were first released. Initially, there weren't ANY handwraps that would allow us to break the dr of raid bosses and that was on top of not having green steel OR ToD rings. Since then they have only gotten better. I will grant you that Shintao sucks. Compared to the Ninja Spy's Shadow Fade, what does shintao grant you that makes it even worth taking? Nothing. But, to say that monks have been nerfed is completely wrong.

The weighted change happened for a good reason as the Weighted 5% was kind of stupid imo. To have a 5% chance of auto stunning any mob without a save was a little bonkers and despite the constant power creep in this game the devs have to go back on some things sometimes. Despite the change, I see it as actually having improved monks, since the stunning +10 actually affects the feat stunning fist. My guildies have monks with 38+ dc stunning fists and those are only moderate dcs for the feat. They stun everything they try to on epic, but I see that as balanced because the ability has a timer and doesn't simply go off at random 5% of the time and auto stun. Stunning 10 wraps still work amazing in epic quests, but now you have to actually consider the type of mob you're using them on. Using stunning 10 wraps on an enemy mob that is seemingly a fighter type with a high fort save shouldn't be effective. Alternatively, using that same proc (DC33) on an arcane caster mob with a lower fort save should be more successful.

As far as the PRE's go, Ninja Spy is full of win. The ability to use Ki to give yourself a 25% chance to evade enemy attacks is awesome. On top of that the Touch of Death ability for Dark Monks is phenomenal! This is our lightning strike weapon. As for Light Monks, I agree they are weak. The buffs they do are only useful in certain situations. The wind finisher doesn't do anything that blur or raid loot can't do, but it's good for low levels then it's usefulness fades as you get higher level. The fire finisher is actually nice throughout the game as a stacking +2 hit/skills bonus. The water finisher, likewise is useful, but rarely kept up an entire dungeon as that calls for breaking out of combat constantly to refresh it. The Earth finisher would be really nice if it wasn't only moderately useful in ToD. It doesn't even prevent all types of stunning as the Marut in Von3 can and will still stun you with this buff going. I've also had stunning blow hit me while under the effects of this buff, so aside from ToD I've found it to be useless.

The only real reason to go light monk is for fists of light, which is one ability that the devs got right. Like Shadow Fade, Fists of Light is useful when you get it and it stays useful and can even become more useful in the late game when you take more damage. Using Healing Amplification items you can get returns of 4-6 pts from Fists of Light, which can greatly improve your survivability. The problem comes from many of the other light abilities. Lesser Restoration? We can buy potions. Remove Curse? Potion. Remove Blindness? Potion. Etc. The Dark Monk gets Touch of Death a 500pt shot of awesomeness, while light monks get the ability to "raise dead." Literally, just raise someone at 1 hit point. One of my fellow players recently said to another player during a high level quest, "I tried to give you a resurrection, but someone else decided to instead give you a death penalty." In case you're wondering, that "death penalty" was a raise dead. The ability to raise is nice and all, but compared to a 500 pt shot it should at least bring someone back at more than 1 hit point. When someone is raised at 1 hit point they must be able to immediately heal themselves, while simultaneously avoiding any enemy attacks or they simply get another "death penalty."

Shintao should have been released as a nice possible reason to go Light Monk. Instead, I still have no idea why the devs would release a PRE designed around fighting demons. There are no demons in the game that really matter, besides Lailat. And our current hunt for metalline handwraps to go with our holy burst ToD rings makes the ability to give our fists "Cold Iron" completely redundant. Even if this PRE becomes more useful in the future because the devs have a plan to release more content designed around demons, that doesn't excuse releasing it so far in advance and without any notice that we are simply left with a useless line of enhancements. Someone recently commented on the devs having voiced a plan to improve shintao, but I can't say whether that was a rumor or true. Despite the failures of Shintao Monk and the lack of greensteel Monks have come a LONG way from their release. They are a class worth playing now, while before the recent changes we weren't really as useful so much as our equipment was. If a party could have animated some Weighted 5% handwraps and NOT brought the monk along, before it would have been better. Not so much today. Light monks still need improvement, but they are still far better than you give the class credit for.

[dpadan17]

Do you even comprehend the fact that there are monks running around with 80-90 AC and still doing great DPS?? Monks are amazing as they are... Nothing should be added or taken away.

playing 2 monks. plese give me a name that has great dps and a 80-90 ac. how? even tr'd up and ship buffed, i can see 70's being a dex/wiz based. a 90 ac is unheard of unless you are a fighter timi in a turtled up stance. i would LOVE to be corrected for i would follow the build. . Please give a name so i can myddo it and find out.

alternatively. The whole GS wraps idea is a good idea. Any class can create a weapon that breaks DR. Monks have to be lucky to farm out the Devouts (really lucky, and don't give me the "i got mine in one run- it's easy line- cause it's not). Metalline of pure good wraps are very hard to get as well. I DON'T support the idea of making a MinII wrap with holy/acid burst/acid blast, because of the ToD rings. (I currently have a shocking and holy burst ring). I would however support the creation of wraps with added bonus's like metalline or pure good. Seriously, anyone else can create a weapon, why not a monk? I have a MinII weapon for my ranger that gives the insight bonus to AC +4. why not help a monk like that? Give the added acid bursts or even shocking bursts would be ludicrous for our screen would have about 15-? numbers scrolling across with all the added sneaks/bursts/etc.

NO one else has to farm 8000 shadow crypts or become uber lucky to get their metalline of pure good stuff, why not monks? Don't make em overpowered, make em able to break DR and MAAAAAAYBE? an added bonus to wiz/dex/str or something like that. Just like the ToD rings. That wouldn't be toooo far fetched. IMO

[Emili]

If GS wraps were introduced... it would very well seem overpowered.

Plain and simple could you imagine I could get multiple GS wraps and toss multiple ToD rings behind them - mix and matched... By comparison my TWF kensai and Tempest who I have invested dual GS min II's and Lightning II's on ... fact every other melee - I could have twice the amount in weaponry on a monk with GS wraps + ToD rings.

This class you speak about actually to be frank - is on the verge of - "OverPowered" easy buttons as is. No other class has got so much going for it... it is configurable to get great AC and/or great damage, It is easily survivable, built in self healing, some of the best saves, a pletora of feats and enhancements which not many other classes can rival. When they first came out people screamed "FiX Them!" and they very much have... I cannot wonder to the point of maybe too much so.

In the last melee nerf monks took the smallest hit to alacrity than any other melee class. They also had received enhancement perks and bumps at the same bloody time - Other classes took steps backwards and monk took many more steps forward.

[efreet5]

Do you even comprehend the fact that there are monks running around with 80-90 AC and still doing great DPS?? Monks are amazing as they are... Nothing should be added or taken away.

Actually, there's no way in the game to keep up an ac of that caliber constantly while still being considered a great DPS build. You make sacrifices to get that high constantly and one of the main ones is DPS.

[DarkFlash]

Have you guys looked at the Monk Shintao PRE topic (update 7)?
You call that DOWNGRADE??
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=136 (Most of the info in a single post)

[Aesop]

I like the idea of adding in lower level (and obviously less powerful) rings with offensive effects on them

Even if the effects were limited to nothing higher than a +1 effect it could be really nice

Bishop's Ring
+2 Resistance
Pure Good

ml 9 or 11 (not sure how it should be stacked)


Lyrandar Signet Ring
Extra use of Least Mark of Storm
Shock

ml 7 or 9


something like those



Aesop

[Senshock]

While no expert on the monk class - I sat at 11 and farmed for the devout handwraps (5 optional chests opened/not all runs had that/ and there they were - not insane farming if you ask me, altho I thought it might be from some threads) and now I have them I see nothing wrong (except the dependence on those) with the class as now its going from strength to strength - -the new Pre's adds to it..

I should add my build is a mess but rep's monks fairly well as far as I have seen so..

My 2 copper

[krogyy]

i think the monk community should stop asking for GS handwraps. it is not going to happen given that TOD rings are in the game.

what i think we should really, really ask is:
- reduce the ML for metalline in random loot handwraps
- add metal threaded properties for handwraps in the random loot table
this two combined will make so much easier to obtain a dr breaker for a monk.