The faith tenets aren't explained enough

[ARcdevil]

Recently I have been meeting a lot of level 6 or 7 clerics with the sovereighn host thing or the drow scorp thing, using maces! I have explained dozens of times the faith stuff can give you profiency yet people seem to flatly refuse to use a short sword or longsword.
The faith tenets never explain that just the +1 bonus.

[AylinIsAwesome]

The proficiency is listed under the ability the first level of the faith enhancement grants.

Follower of the Undying Court for example, grants the ability "Champion of the Deathless" which does state that it can give your proficiency in Scimitars.

[ARcdevil]

what I am saying is when taking the enhancement it doesn't say that on the description. Also scimmys are better than maces aren't they?

[shablala]

what I am saying is when taking the enhancement it doesn't say that on the description. Also scimmys are better than maces aren't they?

The reason is 99% of time martial weapons do not have caster enhancements on them. Item enhancements like Devotion or Potency are much more easily found on maces/scepters/etc..

Superior Devotion/potency weapon is way more important than doing an extra bit of damage swinging a martial weapon.

[Azuarc]

Sometimes...but even for a melee cleric, it's still possible to find a better heavy mace than, say, a longsword. If you're a human of sovereign host, you get no other bonuses toward any particular weapons, so it really becomes a matter of use whatever does the best damage. If that happens to be a mace rather than a longsword, than use the mace. My cleric has a bevy of different weapons in her pack, but there's no one category of weapons that I call my own like an elf that would use scimitars. Basically, I'll take whatever I can get, and the maces tend to be cheaper on the AH, so they're often more accessible.

[Ainimache]

Doesn't it also take a use of your turn undead to get that proficiency with that weapon? I mean, it's not an all-the-time proficiency, though I suppose it does last until your next rest, so that is a long time...

Perhaps that's part of it? Because it uses a "turn undead charge"? Or simply because it has to be turned on? Much if it, I think the OP is right, is because it's "hidden." When you take the enhancement, you have to notice that ability, realize that it lasts until your next rest, remember to drag the icon to your hotbar, then remember to use it.

Yes, it may well allow you to do more damage, situationally, but it means more weapon switching.

Might be useful for some battle-clerics though (that don't splash fighter).

[Vynnt]

The reason is 99% of time martial weapons do not have caster enhancements on them. Item enhancements like Devotion or Potency are much more easily found on maces/scepters/etc..

Superior Devotion/potency weapon is way more important than doing an extra bit of damage swinging a martial weapon.

This.

[OhgodImonfire]

I believe what the OP is saying is that the base enhancements don't mention the Weapon Proficiency spell that they give you, you kinda have to notice it for yourself.

As for the spell itself, maybe its just bugged or maybe I'm just assuming it works like Master's Touch, but the buff that grants weapon proficiency does NOT go away when you rest. In fact, the only way I could get the buff off of me was to log out completely.

[PNellesen]

As for the spell itself, maybe its just bugged or maybe I'm just assuming it works like Master's Touch, but the buff that grants weapon proficiency does NOT go away when you rest. In fact, the only way I could get the buff off of me was to log out completely.

Nope - once you activate it, it stays until you die or log out.

As far as using it - I've got it, but I only use longswords when the situation calls for them - for instance, I have a Blade of Inquisition my Ranger got as an end reward for the Catacombs that I still use against zombies and incorporeal undead, but for the most part my Cleric's got enough "simple" weapons with various enhancements that he doesn't really need longswords anymore.

[Zachski]

My Cleric can't find the benefit in spending 2 AP for 1 more threat range when he can take other enhancements that are far more useful at the lower levels.

[AylinIsAwesome]

what I am saying is when taking the enhancement it doesn't say that on the description. Also scimmys are better than maces aren't they?

When you look at the enhancements you have available to take, this one has a plus where "Champion of the Deathless" is. If someone cannot notice that at all, then placing it in the actual description of the base ability (which wouldn't be supported by other enhancements that work this way) really won't change anything.


And on top of that, my Favoured Soul mostly uses...a sceptor. Why? Because it has Superior Potency 6 on it.

[Dylvish]

Doesn't it also take a use of your turn undead to get that proficiency with that weapon? I mean, it's not an all-the-time proficiency, though I suppose it does last until your next rest, so that is a long time...

Perhaps that's part of it? Because it uses a "turn undead charge"? Or simply because it has to be turned on? (that don't splash fighter).

No, the cleric gets the proficiency permanently. He gets the ability to give OTHERS the proficiency as well until they rest, and that buff does cost a turn undead charge.

[Zachski]

Not quite...

Basically, for the Cleric, that buff lasts an entire play session... you buff yourself with it, and you can go anywhere and do anything, go between instances, rest at shrines, and all sorts of stuff... without losing it. Basically, go in a tavern, cast it on yourself, and then wait a minute for your turn undead to come back, and you're set for the play session.

[der_kluge]

When I was leveling up my cleric in the early stages of play, I *wanted* to take some of those, because they kind of made sense from a role-playing perspective. I was a cleric, after all, and so felt like it was important to take some sort of faith-based thing. But the choices for clerics were lame. I wish they would add something that was actually useful and practical for clerics, but alas.

[Nandos]

It would be really nice when they update the enhancements if they could make this ability for clerics and paladins work like it does for favored souls.

For favored souls, the proficiency and the +1 to hit bonus are free feats. This would save 2 action points for other enhancements and there is no having to cast it and use a turn undead charge.

[AylinIsAwesome]

It would be really nice when they update the enhancements if they could make this ability for clerics and paladins work like it does for favored souls.

For favored souls, the proficiency and the +1 to hit bonus are free feats. This would save 2 action points for other enhancements and there is no having to cast it and use a turn undead charge.

Those cannot also be changed out later if you change your mind, except by spending real $$$.

The Cleric ones can.

[Illiain]

My Cleric can't find the benefit in spending 2 AP for 1 more threat range when he can take other enhancements that are far more useful at the lower levels.

This enhancement is a prereq for the Advanced Faith clicky. For Sov Host, it's a 1000point heal that also removes almost all status conditions. It's situational but nice to have as a healer. The advanced faith for Undying Court is a raise dead (true res for elves) with no sp cost at level 6, on a 10 minute timer.

The basic faith is nice, for a different weapon choice, but it's a stepping stone to more powerful enhancements.

[Iwinbyrollup]

As mentioned, it's a requirement for the advanced faith options, which is nice though only useful in particular situations (the 1000 heal is great, but has a long recharge time). What is very useful in many different situations however is the Radiant Servant PrE. Which requires an advanced faith to be trained to get the Aura and the improved Empower Healing. Which, again, requires the Follower of... enhancement.

So it's hardly not useful--just maybe not all too useful in itself.

As for longswords...it's nice to have the option, and I usually use the ability on login to let the turn regenerate (another benefit of RS). But since I'm generally casting spells instead of swinging weapons, I find my Potency club to be significantly more useful than my cheap Shock longsword.

[smokeyser]

Iwin and Illian are exactly right. The weapon proficiency is just an added bonus and shouldn't be considered the whole point of these enhancements. What you get for taking one is a couple of your most powerful (though situational) abilities. I really can't stress enough how great that sovereign host clicky is. Being able to remove harmful effects that you couldn't otherwise remove will save your party some day. Especially when your intimi-tank dies mid-fight and you've got to get him back up. Throwing him back at a boss with 1/2 health and a death penalty will just result in another death, but a blast from the sovereign host clicky makes him good as new again.

[Sabreheim]

Especially when your intimi-tank dies mid-fight and you've got to get him back up. Throwing him back at a boss with 1/2 health and a death penalty will just result in another death, but a blast from the sovereign host clicky makes him good as new again.

Just a note: the faith tenement that allows for bringing an ally back from the dead 'good as new' is the Undying Court, accessible only by Elves (not including Drow).