This game is a sad joke!

[hydra_ex]

Well, there's gear for one thing.

Of course any new player won't have the gear. Without gear, you're ad a major disadvantage.

Also, try incremental guilding. Join a certain guild you can get into, which occasionally does a few epics, then get a hang for it, and leave eventually. There's no reason not to accept a new guy into an epic run; but if he has bad gear/build, why would you even consider it?

Of course, there are many groups who won't take a new player into an epic, but if you're shot down every time, maybe it's not anything to do with them after all.

PS Guild renown has nothing to do with it; it's completely irrelevant.

[Tholar]

I am in a small guild, were are not extremely high level. I PUG frequently, and never have an issue finding a group. Sometimes groups take a little while to fill, other times they fill extremely fast.

By the fact you have Lorriks, you are a healer. That should be even easier.

[KoboldKiller]

Retracted

[Ltshark1980]

Maybe you should substitute "post" for "game" in your title.

How do you add infraction points to someone like this that is clearly flaming me in a "nice" way for posting something?

[KoboldKiller]

How do you add infraction points to someone like this that is clearly flaming me in a "nice" way for posting something?

Actually I retracted my statement after you copied it but feel free to contact a moderator.

[Folonius]

How do you add infraction points to someone like this that is clearly flaming me in a "nice" way for posting something?

hit the ! in the upper right corner and report the post as breaking the rule in attempting to start a flame.

Usually you need to do something really bad in order to not make raids. On Khyber, I quite often join shroud runs on my characters. I've even been on a shroud with my gimped (soon to be TR'd) wizard.

As far as epics, people are generally picky about epic quests. Fill yourself out with some decent eq from raids and what not and try again. You should be able to get into a decent guild, but you may have ruined your chances in getting in a decent guild with your insulting posts. I would recommend posting on the guild forums, but that might not work now ... *shrugs*

[Ltshark1980]

wrong person

[Glenalth]

wrong person

So you are not Ltshark1980?

Stop hiding behind anonymity and find out why people aren't letting you into their groups.

[sigtrent]

A. Your whining because you haven't gotten exactly what you want. Boo hoo.

B. Your new to the game and level 20, how does that work exactly?

C. Guilds are foremost groups of friends that like playing together. All builds are cliquish, they are clubs, thats how clubs work. If you want in a club you get to know the members, you prove you are the kind of person they like to play with, then you get in. You don't demand entrance by divine right.

D. If you want to run Epics, just start your own groups, or start your own guild. If you aren't good enough, keep working at it. If you don't want to do the work, don't expect to get a privilege.

E. There are tons of non exclusive guilds out there, they just don't raid and do epics all the time. Consider why that might be and perhaps you will have learned something.

[Azoralq]

I need to +1 this guy. Either you are cool, or you aren't. If you aren't, then you don't get to play. Being waiting for two days on my Rogue to do an 18th level quest on Elite, have posted LFMs religiously..at best, three people will join, wait 5 minutes, then leave.

This isn't even an epic quest...it's 18th. I'm guessing it's because 1) No one cares about favor like they used to 2) It's a high end quest, so most people just don't need the xp anymore. and very likely, 3) My name isn't familiar, and rep for PUGs is horrible, so no one joins.

Accursed Ascension is a great example of what OP is talking about. If you aren't in the 'in crowd' you just don't run this raid, period. "Just put up an LFM." Is the common response, to that I say, read the above comments, it is very likely you'll be waiting days for it to fill, because of those same three reasons, and a 4th to boot: "I've never seen that name before, doubtful he knows what the raid is about..I don't want to risk dying and waste my time."

I could make my own guild...and wait for enough people to get to 20th..and hope they stick around in the guild long enough to give it reputation..and hope more people follow...but...it's a far shot. Not saying it's not possible...just...no.

Or...people with sticks up their wazoo could actually come out of their bubble, risk touching the 'unworthy,' party with them a few times, and maybe...just maybe, you'll find out that someone else DOES know what they are doing after all...

[Srozbun]

I need to +1 this guy. Either you are cool, or you aren't. If you aren't, then you don't get to play. Being waiting for two days on my Rogue to do an 18th level quest on Elite, have posted LFMs religiously..at best, three people will join, wait 5 minutes, then leave.

This isn't even an epic quest...it's 18th. I'm guessing it's because 1) No one cares about favor like they used to 2) It's a high end quest, so most people just don't need the xp anymore. and very likely, 3) My name isn't familiar, and rep for PUGs is horrible, so no one joins.

Accursed Ascension is a great example of what OP is talking about. If you aren't in the 'in crowd' you just don't run this raid, period. "Just put up an LFM." Is the common response, to that I say, read the above comments, it is very likely you'll be waiting days for it to fill, because of those same three reasons, and a 4th to boot: "I've never seen that name before, doubtful he knows what the raid is about..I don't want to risk dying and waste my time."

I could make my own guild...and wait for enough people to get to 20th..and hope they stick around in the guild long enough to give it reputation..and hope more people follow...but...it's a far shot. Not saying it's not possible...just...no.

Or...people with sticks up their wazoo could actually come out of their bubble, risk touching the 'unworthy,' party with them a few times, and maybe...just maybe, you'll find out that someone else DOES know what they are doing after all...

Some quests are notorious for their difficulty to complete in a PuG setting. For instance, elite SoS comes to mind. Not a raid, but good luck filling up an LFM for it unless you're well known on the server or running with well geared friends.

Not sure about the state of the abbot on Arg. On Thelanis there are pugs for this all the time. As long as new players to the raid let the leader know they are new, there is generally no problem. And yes, abbot is hard to fill up a group for if you're an "unknown commodity" as its rate of completion is more based around puzzle ability than dps/gear. My advice, read a guide for the raid, watch some videos, familiarize yourself with the puzzles. If you can get a guild group together, go in on normal, and just practice puzzles without worrying about saving sp or anything for beating down the abbot.

[Ltshark1980]

PuG Abbots on Arg go up maybe once every 3 weeks or so. ToD PuGs go up quite a bit more than Abbots.

Most PuG raids go ok. However on Arg had a few issues with PuG groups in Hound run. Have had 8 very nice runs, and 6 failed hound runs. Even when both healers continue to keep dogs alive we get blamed when dogs break. Which I thought auto happened at 50% hence the reason the "bard" is supposed to keep grabbing stones while we heal so that the dogs can be recharmed.

Not sure but anyways just noticed healers get blamed for raids fails even if they do their jobs. Read forums, guides, and watched videos on just about all raids. Still have sp dogs stayed full health, yet vehemently blamed for failed raid when it was the fault of the "bard" forgetting more stones, and dps allowing reavers on the dogs.......

[Srozbun]

PuG Abbots on Arg go up maybe once every 3 weeks or so. ToD PuGs go up quite a bit more than Abbots.

Most PuG raids go ok. However on Arg had a few issues with PuG groups in Hound run. Have had 8 very nice runs, and 6 failed hound runs. Even when both healers continue to keep dogs alive we get blamed when dogs break. Which I thought auto happened at 50% hence the reason the "bard" is supposed to keep grabbing stones while we heal so that the dogs can be recharmed.

Not sure but anyways just noticed healers get blamed for raids fails even if they do their jobs. Read forums, guides, and watched videos on just about all raids. Still have sp dogs stayed full health, yet vehemently blamed for failed raid when it was the fault of the "bard" forgetting more stones, and dps allowing reavers on the dogs.......

Blaming healers for dogs dying is legit. Blaming healers for dogs breaking means you need to learn the raid more before you start putting blame on others. The charm is on a timer. Dogs break after 3 (not 100%) minutes. Nothing you can do about it other than to collect more stones, or make sure the dogs are better buffed so they can take down the main dog before the charm timer runs out.

[Azoralq]

Some quests are notorious for their difficulty to complete in a PuG setting. For instance, elite SoS comes to mind. Not a raid, but good luck filling up an LFM for it unless you're well known on the server or running with well geared friends.

Not sure about the state of the abbot on Arg. On Thelanis there are pugs for this all the time. As long as new players to the raid let the leader know they are new, there is generally no problem. And yes, abbot is hard to fill up a group for if you're an "unknown commodity" as its rate of completion is more based around puzzle ability than dps/gear. My advice, read a guide for the raid, watch some videos, familiarize yourself with the puzzles. If you can get a guild group together, go in on normal, and just practice puzzles without worrying about saving sp or anything for beating down the abbot.

This doesn't help. I know all about the Abbot. I know about the initial fight with him, I know the potential the Quells have to ruin the raid if not ready for it. I know about the Three Dimention Doors that are random, and how best to defeat this by sending 'scouts' in to see which leads to where, before dividing the party.

I know about the Asteroids, and how to set up the group there. I know about the Ice Puzzle, and how to take down the first coffin without too much trouble. I know about the phase puzzle, and it's infamy.

I know about Inferno, and how best to avoid it, or live through it, whichever suits you best. I know about the invisible mobs...I know it all, or **** near it all. But does this really matter?

No. Why? Because no one knows that I know all this stuff, when looking at the LFM. I could put 'I know all this stuff.' But will anyone believe me?

No. Why? Because I'm not when of the known elite that run this all the time, because if I was, I would likely be doing it with the elite that run this all the time behind closed doors. So: Either I rock at the raid, and am 'too cool' to let newbies in. Or, I suck ass at the raid, and to join would just be suicidal...best to go do some other quest.

[Srozbun]

This doesn't help. I know all about the Abbot. I know about the initial fight with him, I know the potential the Quells have to ruin the raid if not ready for it. I know about the Three Dimention Doors that are random, and how best to defeat this by sending 'scouts' in to see which leads to where, before dividing the party.

I know about the Asteroids, and how to set up the group there. I know about the Ice Puzzle, and how to take down the first coffin without too much trouble. I know about the phase puzzle, and it's infamy.

I know about Inferno, and how best to avoid it, or live through it, whichever suits you best. I know about the invisible mobs...I know it all, or **** near it all. But does this really matter?

No. Why? Because no one knows that I know all this stuff, when looking at the LFM. I could put 'I know all this stuff.' But will anyone believe me?

No. Why? Because I'm not when of the known elite that run this all the time, because if I was, I would likely be doing it with the elite that run this all the time behind closed doors. So: Either I rock at the raid, and am 'too cool' to let newbies in. Or, I suck ass at the raid, and to join would just be suicidal...best to go do some other quest.

Pug enough abbots then so that you build up a rep. Other people who run with you will recognize your name and join. Not sure about your guild situation. Can you guys not get enough people on at a time to do pure guild runs?

[bandyman1]

I could make my own guild...and wait for enough people to get to 20th..and hope they stick around in the guild long enough to give it reputation..and hope more people follow...but...it's a far shot. Not saying it's not possible...just...no.

Or...people with sticks up their wazoo could actually come out of their bubble, risk touching the 'unworthy,' party with them a few times, and maybe...just maybe, you'll find out that someone else DOES know what they are doing after all...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Why do we have to be labeled as " people with sticks up our wazoo " for playing with the people that we already know, and enjoy socializing with???

I'm in three guilds and four channels; I don't have problems joining and/or forming groups without resorting to PuGGing.

I bring this up because most of the raid-heavy players are in the exact same place as me.

So, when it comes to joining an LFM and/or filling a group with a name I don't recognize, or partying will Nate or Mitch, I'm sorry; You're just going to have to feel " left out of the loop ".

[Azoralq]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again;

Why do we have to be labeled as " people with sticks up our wazoo " for playing with the people that we already know, and enjoy socializing with???

I'm in three guilds and four channels; I don't have problems joining and/or forming groups without resorting to PuGGing.

I bring this up because most of the raid-heavy players are in the exact same place as me.

So, when it comes to joining an LFM and/or filling a group with a name I don't recognize, or partying will Nate or Mitch, I'm sorry; You're just going to have to feel " left out of the loop ".

That's all well and good. You won't run with 'other people' because you would rather run with your friends. I applaud that...it's friendship, and the last thing I want to be portrayed here is for me to demand I be in your party/raid, and break up that friendship..it's not what I'm going for here.

But let's talk about when those friends are offline. Or - if you claim that you have so many friends/people to run with, that this is never the case - pretend that hypothetically Not enough people were online to fill a raid:

How do you feel then? If you are running a raid - and for argument's sake, we will say that raid is Accursed Ascension - and you are missing three or four friends, what do you feel more inclined to do? Wait 15-30 minutes until one shows up? Call it quits, for fear of losing? Short man it because you are simply that awesome? Or consider inviting 'other people?' What would your friends vote for?

If the answer is, strangely enough to allow 'other people' That is awesome..but can you say that for other people? Of course not. I applaud you for not being the one with a stick up their wazoo, if this is the case. You are clearly the exception to the rule. The term was used in a general format. The negative side effect to this is, it lumped you into an unwanted group...unfortunate..but ultimately, people that don't fit into that phrase are in the minority.

[Ltshark1980]

That's all well and good. You won't run with 'other people' because you would rather run with your friends. I applaud that...it's friendship, and the last thing I want to be portrayed here is for me to demand I be in your party/raid, and break up that friendship..it's not what I'm going for here.

But let's talk about when those friends are offline. Or - if you claim that you have so many friends/people to run with, that this is never the case - pretend that hypothetically Not enough people were online to fill a raid:

How do you feel then? If you are running a raid - and for argument's sake, we will say that raid is Accursed Ascension - and you are missing three or four friends, what do you feel more inclined to do? Wait 15-30 minutes until one shows up? Call it quits, for fear of losing? Short man it because you are simply that awesome? Or consider inviting 'other people?'

If the answer is, strangely enough to allow 'other people' That is awesome..but can you say that for other people? Of course not. I applaud you for not being the one with a stick up their wazoo, if this is the case. You are clearly the exception to the rule. The term was used in a general format. The negative side effect to this is, it lumped you into an unwanted group...unfortunate..but ultimately, people that don't fit into that phrase are in the minority.

Impressive conjecture. You have nailed the entire feeling of this post to a tee. Your statement of questions is entirely correct in the format of how the game is played today. Most will never take that last option of filling with other people. They force the wait, kill the group, or short man it instead of allowing another person to have a chance at the quest.

That is the "clique" I speak of. The ones that have totally closed their doors and never notice the "others". These are the same ones that stand up in defense saying things like. "I got friends". "I don't know if your good enough so I don't care go away". "Let's use pocket players because I don;t wanna chance a fail on other players ....."

Heard it, Seen it, have said it myself in other games. I have done the same myself! Shame on me.

[vorpel]

I have a set group of people I run with - be it leveling new toons, running raids or epic content. Currently there are only 3 of us and we will short man most things as we have fun running together. We are part of a great guild, but one that doesn't do much raiding outside of Shroud and that is okay.

If my friends aren't on when I want to play, I will usually solo stuff that I have on my list of things to do/grind for.

I will at times help out fellow guildies when they ask, but I think the key thing to remember here is - this is my time and my effort. If I don't feel like running something - even if somebody in guild needs help, then I don't. I'm not declining to be rude or unhelpful, but there are other ways in the game I would rather spend my time.

Just because you are in a guild doesn't mean that you have access to the Easy button on what you want. It all comes down to the individual. There are some people that will ask that I join to help on something I'm not really interested in running and I will decline. There are some people that when they ask I will drop what I am doing (though never a group - personal pet peev) and lend a hand. This is true for guildies and non-guildies alike.

I guess I just want to say that nobody is owed anything in this game. You get out of it what you put into it.

Good luck OP on getting what you are looking for!

That's all well and good. You won't run with 'other people' because you would rather run with your friends. I applaud that...it's friendship, and the last thing I want to be portrayed here is for me to demand I be in your party/raid, and break up that friendship..it's not what I'm going for here.

But let's talk about when those friends are offline. Or - if you claim that you have so many friends/people to run with, that this is never the case - pretend that hypothetically Not enough people were online to fill a raid:

How do you feel then? If you are running a raid - and for argument's sake, we will say that raid is Accursed Ascension - and you are missing three or four friends, what do you feel more inclined to do? Wait 15-30 minutes until one shows up? Call it quits, for fear of losing? Short man it because you are simply that awesome? Or consider inviting 'other people?' What would your friends vote for?

If the answer is, strangely enough to allow 'other people' That is awesome..but can you say that for other people? Of course not. I applaud you for not being the one with a stick up their wazoo, if this is the case. You are clearly the exception to the rule. The term was used in a general format. The negative side effect to this is, it lumped you into an unwanted group...unfortunate..but ultimately, people that don't fit into that phrase are in the minority.

[Perspicacity]

That's all well and good. You won't run with 'other people' because you would rather run with your friends. I applaud that...it's friendship, and the last thing I want to be portrayed here is for me to demand I be in your party/raid, and break up that friendship..it's not what I'm going for here.

But let's talk about when those friends are offline. Or - if you claim that you have so many friends/people to run with, that this is never the case - pretend that hypothetically Not enough people were online to fill a raid:

How do you feel then? If you are running a raid - and for argument's sake, we will say that raid is Accursed Ascension - and you are missing three or four friends, what do you feel more inclined to do? Wait 15-30 minutes until one shows up? Call it quits, for fear of losing? Short man it because you are simply that awesome? Or consider inviting 'other people?' What would your friends vote for?

If the answer is, strangely enough to allow 'other people' That is awesome..but can you say that for other people? Of course not. I applaud you for not being the one with a stick up their wazoo, if this is the case. You are clearly the exception to the rule. The term was used in a general format. The negative side effect to this is, it lumped you into an unwanted group...unfortunate..but ultimately, people that don't fit into that phrase are in the minority.

The problem with this entire thread is that none of you naysayers understand WHY the "leets" have the attitudes they have.

Noobs kill mummies in Faithful Departed.
Noobs kill spiders in dust.
Noobs kill the Stormrever before they get fly in Reavers Fate.
Noobs run to the center of the maze in part 2 of Shroud.
Noobs run for the chest in Redwillow.
Noobs touch the ancient docent in PoP.
Noobs touch gems in coal.
Noobs Pull the leaver in ToD before everyone is in.
Noobs pull the leaver in tempest spine and get burnt to a crisp.
Noobs pull trains of aggro to the line in Christal Cove.
Noobs summon pets in raids.

The list goes on but the point is; NOOBS CAUSE FAILS.

I will admit in my greener days I committed some of these mistakes so don't think I am pointing the finger at others. The microscope is squarely on myself here but I have been in runs where if that "new guy" had not been there we would have completed but because he was there we wiped. If you know your good enough to short man a quest letting an unknown in to the group actually makes the group weaker. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the 500 PUGs that came before you who drove the clicks together.

Let me give you a simple metaphor.

Your walking down the street. You see a guy you have never met.

You say hi and he punches you in the face.

You walk on further, you see a guy you know.

You say hi and he says hi back.

You walk on further and see another guy you don't know.

You say hi and he punches you in the face.

this goes on all day, the guys you know say hi the guys you don't know punch you, EVERY TIME.

the next day you go walking, you see a guy you don't know.

Are you gonna say hi or are you only gonna say hi to the guy you know for sure wont hurt you?

This is literally how DDO works. One guy can easily cause a quest fail /party wipe simply because, quote: "I didn't know I wasn't suppose to do that." The guys I know, I party with. The guys I don't know I am wary of because that could be the guy that gets us all killed. The guy I don't know got me killed last time, so the guy I don't know will probably get me killed this time to; and it's not just that he will cause a wipe, it's that because he is not in a guild with us and is not friends with us there is also a lack of accountability. I have had WAY to many pugs rage quit cause we hit one rough patch, "O no the barb took some damage we're gonna fail, I quit!" He doesn't care that he's ditching us, we're not his friends so screw us. The funny part is I have completed so many quests after the ONE pug in the group rage quit its not even funny. There almost not worth taking in the first place.

Fact is, in most players minds PUG now means Pretty Useless Guy. (Or Girl, because Fail is an equal opportunity employer).

Also you paint us all as being snobbish. I don't like noobs granted but I am proactive. I am currently second in command of a lowbie guild, by lowbie I mean 3/4 of the guild is lvl 9 or lower. most of them are on there first toon ever and ask me for advice all the time. I teach them what I know, run quests with them, share loot with them (it has become my policy to give a +1 tome to any new player who joins the guild free as a welcome gift. It fosters loyalty and makes them feel welcome plus I got +1 tomes coming out of my ears any way.), I even took the time to create and moderate guild forums and filled it with threads to share the vast wealth of knowledge I have acquired from other elites that came before me. I promise you a year from now I will be running epic raids with the guild I built and we will be a click and we wont take noobs either and thus I am now in the click in stead of out side it. I didn't 8!+( h about it, I did something about it.

Noobs are like gold, there a natural resource, but like gold they need to be refined, molded and polished. If I as a guild leader go through all that work you think I'm gonna share it with a stranger? Heck no especially if all he does is complain. Go mine your own gold instead of getting mad that we wont share ours.