Help Me With my Drow Sorcerer Build!

[Xiadais]

I don't have the character planner builder thing. Yes, I'm new to the forums, but not to DnD (and I like to think I have some experience in DDO). This build is, overall, a drow fire/cold nuker sorcerer with a few good buffs, and a tiny bit of CC and insta-death. Please stick to what it's intended to be and don't tell me to make it WF or something.
So here is my build so far:

*Race*
Drow Elf

*Class*
Sorcerer/20

*Base Stats*
  28pt/30pt/32pt
Str  8/  10/  10
Dex 10/  10/  10
Con 14/  14/  14
Int 12/  12/  12
Wis  8/   8/  10
Cha 20/  20/  20 <-Lvl up points into Cha

An alternate 32-point would be to take the points off of wisdom and put them into int for more skills. Thoughts on which is better?

*Feats*
Lvl 1~ Maximize Spell
Lvl 3~ Empower Spell
Lvl 6~ Extend Spell
Lvl 9~ Toughness
Lvl 12~Heighten Spell
Lvl 15~Spell Penetration
Lvl 18~Greater Spell Penetration

*Skills*
23 Ranks Concentration
11 Ranks UMD
11 Ranks Diplomacy
1 Rank Tumble
If +2 INT tome, put into Balance
If +4 INT tome, how the heck did you get one before lvl 20? (do whatever you want)
If more INT with 2nd TR, same as with +4 tome's notes

Notes: The enhancements start at level 4 because I use veteran status. The max spent per level that I have posted is how much AP you have at the START of the level.

*Enhancements*
Lvl 4~
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I (1AP) 1 spent
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation I (1AP) 2 spent
Sorcerer Charisma I (2AP) 4 spent
Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I (2AP) 6 spent
Sorcerer Improved Empowering I (2AP) 8 spent
Sorcerer Lineage of Elements I (1AP) 9 spent
Sorcerer Energy Manipulation I (1AP) 10 spent
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation II (2AP) 12 spent/12
Lvl 5~
Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery I (1AP) 13 spent
Sorcerer Lineage of Energy I (1AP) 14 spent
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II (2AP) 16 spent/16
Lvl 6~
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements I (1AP) 17 spent/20
Lvl 7~
Sorcerer Charisma II (4AP) 21 spent
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation III (3AP) 24 spent/24
Lvl 8~
Sorcerer Lineage of Elements II (2AP) 26 spent/28
Lvl 9~
Drow Racial Toughness I (1AP) 27 spent/32
Drow Racial Toughness II (2AP) 29 spent/32
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded III (3AP) 32 spent/32
Lvl 10~
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements II (2AP) 34 spent/36
Lvl 11~
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV (4AP) 38 spent/40
Lvl 12~
Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III (3AP) 41 spent/44
Lvl 13~
Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II (4AP) 45 spent
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements III (3AP) 48 spent/48
Lvl 14~
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV (4AP) 52 spent/52
Lvl 15~
Sorcerer Improved Spell Penetration I (2AP) 54 spent/56
Lvl 16~
Sorcerer Improved Spell Penetration II (4AP) 58 spent/60
Lvl 17~
Sorcerer Improved Heightening I (4AP) 62 spent
Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery II (2AP) 64 spent/64
Lvl 18~
Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery III (3AP) 67 spent
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy I (1AP) 68 spent/68
Lvl 19~
nothing (0AP) 68 spent/72
Lvl 20~
Sorcerer Improved Spell Penetration III (6AP) 74 spent
Sorcerer Bloodline of Power (2AP) 76 spent/76
Maxed XP~
Sorcerer Improved Empowering II (4AP) 80 spent - done

*Condensed Enhancements*
Sorcerer Bloodline of Power
Sorcerer Charisma II
Drow Racial Toughness II
Sorcerer Improved Spell Penetration III
Sorcerer Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II
Sorcerer Improved Empowering II
Sorcerer Improved Heightening I
Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded IV
Sorcerer Elemental Manipulation IV
Sorcerer Lineage of Elements III
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Elements III
Sorcerer Energy Manipulation I
Sorcerer Lineage of Energy I
Sorcerer Lineage of Deadly Energy I

Work-in-Progress Spell List... I need help with the spells in red. (Made red for ease of viewing for those lazy people out there...)

1st Level
Jump
Nightshield
Niac's Cold Ray -> Tumble @ Level 9
Expeditious Retreat -> Magic Missiles @ Level 7
 
2nd Level
Blur
Knock
Resist Energy
Scorching Ray
 
3rd Level
Displacement
Fireball -> Rage @ Level 14
Frost Lance
Haste
 
4th Level
Dimension Door
Fire Shield
Stoneskin
Wall of Fire
 
5th Level
Cone of Cold
Ball Lightning
Cloudkill
Protection From Elements
 
6th Level
Disintegrate
Greater Heroism
Flesh to Stone/Chain Lightning
(right now I'm thinking Chain Lightning)
 
7th Level
Delayed Blast Fireball
Finger of Death
Waves of Exhaustion/Otto's Sphere of Dancing
(right now I'm thinking Sphere because it sounds like WoEx is getting nerfed soon)
 
8th Level
Polar Ray
and 2 of:
Incendiary Cloud; Horrid Wilting; Otto's Irresistible Dance; Charm Monster, Mass
(right now I'm thinking Incendiary Cloud and Otto's)
 
9th Level
Meteor Swarm
Wail of the Banshee
Energy Drain/Hold Monster, Mass
(right now I'm thinking 2nd option)

I would like to hear ideas for any changes in enhancements and help with my spells. If there's still something wrong with my feats, tell me. Also, any other recommendations would be nice as long as they are somewhat related to what I'm trying to do with the build.

[jcTharin]

i would take toughness first. and then extend after that. you need the hp and extend is best at lower levels when the buffs don't last very long.

[soulaeon]

i would take toughness first. and then extend after that. you need the hp and extend is best at lower levels when the buffs don't last very long.

Wrong, sorry. Low levels are the easiest as a sorcerer; I was soloing almost everything without Toughness, and even a negative modifier on my constitution for a time (which is fixed now). Most low level content has little DC and are one-shotted, so one will not get hit as much. I did not start dying noticeably much until around level 10.

Extend does not do anything for your level 1-2 buffs other than waste your SP. For the cost of this skill, you are losing SP because it is about the same as the base cost-- I would get it after something like Empower or Maximize. You're not going to be bothered much with buffing as it is. It's worth having eventually, because you can extend Wall of Fire or any other spell with a short duration.
Toughness can come much later when you do need it. You're missing Spell Penetration, which is also something you need at high levels, and some people get Spell Focus (Necromancy or Enchantment usually). I got Mental Toughness for filler, and at least one of those is useful if you are using both Empower and Maximize.
Personally, I found Improved Empowering more efficient than the critical-chance enhancements because I rather do 50% more damage all the time at reduced cost, than just a small amount of the time. I used that enhancement as a dump for the last 1 AP I had.

[Varis]

pretty straight forward.

I would dump the subtle spellcasting enhancement. As a good nuker you will want the aggro in order to herd them up for your area of effect spells.


I understand that 8,10,14,12,8,20 is a popular build. Sadly, for skills there is nothing you need other then concentration and UMD. 12 (or 14 at 7th) int will be a waste.
Play to the races strength and go 8,16,12,10,8,20 or at least do 10,10,14,10,8,20 for starting stats.

IF you go dex then you wanna make use of it. A high dex will be AWESOME level 1-10 because simply going with a mage armor potion, shield spell, bark and shield potion will get you to 28 AC at 5th level (more if you're geared out of course)

Mid levels its kinda useless although resisting doggy trips is always nice.

At high levels elite and epic content, a good reflex will make a huge difference.
Your 30 resist won't cut it anymore but if you save for half a lot, you will manage even extreme situations with ease (epic dragon soloing the base with all the fire elementals and the efreet. You can just polar ray the efreet and ignore the elementals while the cleric that was suppost to heal you now takes up a inventory slot)


I played a dex drow sorc since mod 3 and TRed into a dex sorc twice... I have loved and still love every minute of it. Just make sure you never ever neglect hit points. Having a great reflex save is not a substitute for hit points, it's a defense "in addition to" hit points.

[Xiadais]

So swap extend and toughness? I understand that subtle spellcasting is terrible, but there was nothing else to fill in the slots with. (minimum AP spent for other enhancements.)

On my level 9 sorc somewhat following this build, I find myself crit-ing quite a bit, I usually only use maximize and empower on bosses and tough enemies, and I haven't had any problems dying yet. I also tend to hand out extended blur to everyone and not worrying about re-buffing is nice (for me).

As far as the 12 int goes, I find myself using diplomacy quite a bit. So I want ranks into diplomacy. I realize that having 10 str is probably a good idea, but I don't want to sacrifice my 2 points in int or any con. If someone could explain more about how different stat distributions perform, that would be nice.

Skills:
Should I put a rank into tumble just so I can use it?
Is diplomacy really not worth it for a sorcerer?
Would balance be a good idea if diplomacy isn't?

Enhancements:
Is there anything else with similar AP costs to subtle spellcasting that I could use to fill gaps for required AP in other enhancements?

Feats:
Should toughness and extend be swapped in my feats?
I am deliberately avoiding spells with SR, because I don't want to take the spell penetration feats.
I'll try to come up with a spell list soon. That would help with decisions too.
So far, I am debating between mental toughness and evocation focus. Almost all of my spells are evocation or buffs, and while I realize that sorcs have quite enough SP already, I still want more to maximize my effectiveness. If there are any other good feats as a nuker sorc with no CC and almost nothing with SR, please tell me.

[tinyelvis]

I agree with the advice about your con. Again probably the minority here, but to go to 14 con takes a lot of build points and is not an efficient way to play to a Drow's strengths. For a Drow this only amounts to 20 points end game and a bonus to fort save. Depending on what you want to do, you can put those 4 points into Str, Dex, Int, and/or Wis for up to a +2 bonus.

Intel has its uses too. Its nice to have a good move silent (dex skill) to augment your invisibility hidden ability. This can be crucial skill when solo'n quests (especially important high level quests). Other important skills include balance, jump, diplomacy, intimidate, spot, and hide to name a few. Depending on your play style placing points into one or more of these can help you a lot.

In bastion for example a good move silent is key to quickly solo'n. You will need to perhaps run this quest many times (20 or more) before you get that all important Tevlis sash. It's not always easy to find a group for it and running on casual is a poor idea. This item will instantly make your caster uber.

As for spell pen, I would never short a typical Drow caster of it. You will perform poorly on a lot of spells. Plus if you do intend to use diplomacy, typically, the spells that synergise well with that skill all can be spell resisted. You can have a very high DC as a Drow. Augment this with an appropriately high spell pen for best performance. Before you ever consider not using spell penetration you need to have a very solid understanding of sorcerers, spell casting, enemy mobs, and quests.

[vorpel]

Okay - I will attempt to stick with what you are intending for your build...!

First - take the Toughness feat. It doesn't matter as much as to when - earlier gives you the benefit earlier, and frankly besides Force of Personality (which you can use at lower levels and then swap out) it adds more benefit that most of the other feats you would end up taking.

As for what feats to have for what you want to focus on - here's what I would do:

Extend
Maximize
Empower
Toughness
Enlarge (very situational, but if you solo a lot it can come in handy)
That leaves 2 for whatever. Personally I would figure out your spells first. You can solo most anything in the game with a properly outfitted and crafted sorc, but there are times when you wont be effective at all in raids like ToD compared to what you will be used to is most everything else. Taking some debuffs is a good idea and IIRC spell pen will help. I would avoid Mental Toughness as you will have a little of 3,000sp at level 20 with the right gear (Shroud SP item, etc). The additional 105sp isn't a great idea in my mind. If you are against the Spell Pen/Greater Spell Pen then consider taking extra toughness feats. I would normally recommend heighten, but for you that won't help a lot as the typical spells that it is great for are CC and you stated you don't want that. 2 additional Toughness feats will net you 40hp at level 20. This can be a great asset - especially on Epic content where traps will do 350 points of damage. I rerolled my Drow Sorc as her HP was too much of an issue and I didn't want to sacrifice Spell Pen/Greater Spell Pen.

Stats:

Having a bit higher Strength will help in the long run as you will be able to carry more loot and that translates into more plat. I have a guildie that went with a dex based FvS - he's always giving me the heavy items out of chests - armor, shields, etc as he will get encumbered.

Dex is nice, but I completely ignore it on my casters as it isn't a big deal at end game raiding or running epic content. Of course it would be great to have a high Dex so that your reflex save is worth something at end game, but it just isn't feasible on a pure sorc as there would be too many compromises to make it happen.


Here is the stat distribution I'd go with for a pure drow sorc:

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Int: 12 (so you can have Concentration, UMD and Diplomacy maxed out)
Wis: 8
Cha: 20

Ending stats with +2 tomes and +6 items will look like:
Str: 18
Dex: 18
Con: 21 (push for +1 and +2 exceptional - end at 24)
Int: 20
Wis: 16
Cha: 36 (20, 5 lvl up, 2 tome, 3 enh, 6 item) This can be pushed to a max of 43 with +4 tome, +7 item, +3 excep, and +1 Litany)

Also - do put 1 full point into Tumble so that you will be able to roll around.


Enhancements:

Go full fire/cold spec. You will have enough action points to either go full electric/acid spec or spell pen. Most of the rest isn't really all that exciting.


I hope this helps a bit.

[Lunzatis]

The problem with you not wanting to take spell penetration is that all damage spells with the exception of polar ray can be resisted. This pretty much leaves you with little to no choice. You have two choices get the spell pen feats and enhancements or be little to no use in higher lvl quests. As for feats and enhancements this is what my lvl 20 sorc has.

Feats

1 - toughness
3 - extend
6 - maximize
9 - empower
12 - spell penetration
15 - heighten
18 - greater spell penetration.

Enchancements

Sorcer Bloodline of Power
Sorcer Empowering II
Sorcer Maximizing II
Racial Toughness II
Sorcer Linage of Elements III
Sorcer Linage of Deadly Elements III
Sorcer Elemental Manipulation IV
Sorcer Force Manipulation III
Sorcer Improved Spell Penetration III
Sorcer Energy of the Dragonblood IV
Sorcer Subtle Spellcasting I
Sorcer Charisma III

Sorry to bust your bubble on not wanting death spells but a lot of things are immune to fire and ice later in the game. I only have 2 death spells. Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee. Banishment is a good spell to have too.

[Xiadais]

The problem with you not wanting to take spell penetration is that all damage spells with the exception of polar ray can be resisted.

I believe you made a mistake. Damaging spells do NOT have spell penetration. They have saves. Spell penetration feats/enhancements affect SR, not the DCs on saves. Perhaps heighten would be useful for Cone of Cold, Delayed Blast Fireball, etc saves...

Yes, I AM thinking of getting WotB and maybe FoD, but is two feats worth it for (probably) around 4 spells?

vorpel, yes I have toughness, at lvl 9. And no, I didn't change it after you said that. You must've just missed it. I don't solo, so I don't want enlarge. I understand that having 10 base starting str is very nice for an arcane, but there aren't enough build points for it unless I have 13 con. Odd number, scary and no. Yes, I intend to have concentration, UMD and diplo 1 rank/lvl. Is what you are saying about "1 full point" into tumble saying to put one point into it, or 2 points which is 1 rank? And what should I take off of for the tumble point(s), UMD or diplo?

Thank you, everyone, who tried to stick to my idea and not trolling or telling me to go WF.

EDIT: added spell list V1.0 to my first post

[vorpel]

Cool - toughness rocks.

As for 8 vs 10 Str - if you go with a +2 tome this is easier to skip and leave at 8.

As for Tumble - yes, take 1 full rank (unlike what I did a few toons back in the day where it was a class skill and I only put 1/2 point in - and couldn't tumble...!)

Take the point away from Diplomacy. Concentration (especially without Quicken) is a must (in my mind) to max out and that leaves Diplo vs UMD, and you can always add a +15 Diplo item, whereas the max UMD item bonus is 5...!

Hope this helps!

[Xiadais]

Thank you again. I knew that taking away from concentration was bad, but I didn't know whether UMD or diplo was better to take from.

One rank, which is 2 skill points. Got it.

I don't have access to +2 tomes, as I am a f2p with no high level toons. However, from my experience with sorcerers I don't think I'm going to worry about the str. Whenever I get enough pp for a +2 tome I will use it, but until then I'll just ignore it.

Any comments on my (really quickly thought up) spell list? And what feats I should have with it? The (spell)/(spell)'s in the list are where I don't know which choice would be better, and I would like advice on that too. If there's anything else glaringly stupid/wrong in the spell list I am open to comments. Oh, and any comments on the enhancements?

[vorpel]

1st Level
Jump
Nightshield
Niac's Cold Ray -> Detect Secret Doors @ Level 9?
Expeditious Retreat -> Merfolk's Blessing @ Level 7?
Jump and Nightshield are for sure, detect secret doors and merfolks could be replaced by tumble and feather fall partially or fully, I'm undecided

2nd Level
Blur
Invisibility, Knock, Melf's Acid Arrow
Resist Energy
Scorching Ray

3rd Level
Displacement
Fireball -> Water Breathing/Rage
Frost Lance -> the other of Water Breathing and Rage, if I get rid of it
Haste

4th Level
Dimension Door/Force Missiles
Fire Shield
Stoneskin
Wall of Fire

5th Level
Cone of Cold
Ball Lightning
Cloudkill -> Prismatic Ray? or do I even need to swap it out because of incendiary cloud?
Protection From Elements?

6th Level
Disintegrate
Flesh to Stone/Chain Lightning
Greater Heroism

7th Level
Delayed Blast Fireball
Finger of Death
Greater Teleport/Protection from Elements, Mass

8th Level
Polar Ray
Otto's Irresistible Dance/Incendiary Cloud
Horrid Wilting

9th Level
Meteor Swarm
Wail of the Banshee
Summon Monster IX??? is there anything better?

Okay - spells. There are some absolute musts, some very nice to have spells, and then a few spells slots that will be personal preference.

1st level:
Jump: (must - this is how you are going to help avoid getting hit while you burn everything down...!)
Nightshield: (must - there are enough mobs in DDO with magic missile/force missiles that this is essential)
Magic Missile: (Very nice to have. Unlike a lot of spells, magic missile will hit the creature you have targeted. This is important when you are pulling monsters in the Shroud and many other places. Most other spells will either have a chance to miss - i.e. the creature moves, or will do splash/area damage in which you might get more than just the creature you are trying to pull)
Open slot: I personally like Tumble as I like to put on a tumble item and flip around. Very little practical use, so really anything else here. Here are a few spells that aren't as necessary at higher levels as you will most likely get the benefit off of an item, etc: Merfolk blessing - just carry an underwater action item and switch. Feather Fall - you will most likely have an item for this, but a good argument can be made to keep this spell. Detect secret doors - there are items with clickies of this that are each to get/buy, and later on you will most likely carry True Seeing scrolls as a helpful buff and True Seeing will cover your bases with hidden doors/etc.

2nd Level:
Resist Energy: (must. At level 11 you can cast resist to fire/cold/electric/acid/sonic for 30 points each. The effect lasts as long as the spell is active)
Blur: (highly desirable. Great to help buff your party or yourself. Displacement is nice because it is 50% chance to miss vs. Blur's 20%, but Blur lasts for 1 minute per caster level, and Displacement lasts for 6 seconds per caster level). I usually always run with Blur on and put Displacement on when needed. Great buff for the melee in your party.
Scorching Ray: (highly desirable. This spell along with fireball or delayed blast fireball (and Meteor Swarm) make a great set of fire spells that can be cast one quickly after the other for massive/quick damage.)
Web: (highly desirable. This spell is great early on, loses it's usefulness in mid-end game, but shines in Epic when combined with Heighten)
Knock: (highly desirable. This has become my new favorite lvl 2 spell as I like to solo a lot and opening chests that you would normally need a rogue/rogue skills for is great!)
Invisibility: (not needed. You will be able to use scrolls for this, and mass invisibility scrolls for your entire party. Sorcerers have such few spell options per level that anywhere you can use a scroll just as effectively, you are better of picking spells that you can't get the same benefit from a scroll.)

Level 3:
Haste: (Duh - required! Run fast, attack fast, etc. Enough said!)
Displacement: (Highly desirable. This one will save your bacon more times than not. Doesn't last long (same duration as Haste, so good to cast together). Great spell!)
Frost Lance: (highly desirable. This one is a lot like Scorching Ray - great damage and works well when combined with Polar Ray and Cone of Cold for an all out cold attack.)
Rage: (highly desirable. AC doesn't matter to you as a caster. Adding 20hp at level 20 is pretty awesome. Great for buffing the melee in your party, but be sure to ask if anyone doesn't want it as it will lower AC. Barbarians will love you for it!)
Protection from Energy: (skip. Get the Protection from Elements at level 5 and get 120 points of elemental damage reducing for a few extra SP vs casting this spell just once.)

Level 4:
Wall of Fire: (must! Best spell for damage in the game. Useful from the first moment you get it up through Epic)
Fire Shield: (highly desirable. This is great throughout the life of the caster in DDO.)
Dimension Door: (highly desirable. You can get scrolls of this, but they cost a lot on the AH and the spell is just too useful to not have.)
Stoneskin: (highly desirable. You can use wands instead, but they are only 1/2 as effective - 60pt vs 120pt.)
Phantasmal Killer: (good. A lot of fun to use early on, but dump it once you get Finger of Death at level 7. PK has 2 saves for it while FoD only has 1.)

Level 5:
Cone of Cold: (must! Not a great as Wall of Fire as it doesn't last, but the area of effect is very nice and is a great spell with Frost Lance and Polar Ray.)
Protection from Elements: (must! 120pts of damage reduction from fire/cold/electric/acid/sonic. Kicks butt)
Cloudkill: (nice to have. This used to be one of the best spells, but with the changes to stat damage about a year ago, this is still a good spell for concealment and the stat damage to con does help)
Waves of Fatigue: (nice to have. In higher end content where a sorc/caster can't just blast their way through everything - Amrath and Epic currently - as debuffs that you can through on a boss will help your party melee take 'em down quicker)

Level 6:
Disintegrate: (must! I can't believe I went without this recently on my TR'd sorc. When no other damage will get through, this will!)
Flesh to Stone: (very nice to have. Great for specific quests - ToD, Let Sleeping Dust Lie, etc.)
Greater Heroism: (very nice to have. This can be cast from a scroll. The scroll will last for 11 minutes while the spell is 1 min per caster level. Truly personal preference)
Reconstruct: (very nice to have. If you are WF (and I know you are not) this is a must. For running raids, etc. this is handy to have to help heal the WF melee. Again - personal preference)
Chain Lightning: (very nice to have. Just started using this one and it is a lot of fun. If they fix Acid Fog, I'd be hard pressed to choose between these two)

Level 7:
Finger of Death: (must! This is probably the most overpowerd spell in the game. Truly awesome in mid level to end. Won't work well in Amrath or Epic)
Delayed Blast Fireball: (must! This will replace Fireball from level 3. Does great damage and is one of the musts for true nukers)
Symbol of Stunning: (very nice to have. This is an impressive spell. Does a great job stunning stuff in all quests - though I haven't tried it in Epic yet.)
Otto's Sphere of Danching: (very nice to have. Great crowd control. Starts to lose its' lustre in Amrath and beyond.)
Waves of Exhaustion: (very nice to have. Just like Waves of Fatigue, this is great for debuffing bosses, etc)
Greater Teleport: (use a scroll. You won't go through these scrolls very fast unlike Teleport. No real reason to use a precious spell slot for it)
Protection from Elements, Mass: (very nice to have. I personally don't run with this as I'd rather let the cleric/FvS provide this one. If I have to use the single version of this spell on my party to buff - no big deal - I'm a sorc - I have 3,000sp!)

Level 8:
Polar Ray: (must! This is one of the best overall damage spells in the game. On fire creatures I can hit in the high 2,000's.)
Otto's Irresistible Dance: (must! So useful to help control agro in high end content. Works great in epic too!)
Incendiary Cloud: (very good to have. Does fire damage and slows stuff down. Very fun combo with a firewall in the middle!)

Level 9:
Wail of the Banshee: (must! If you thought Finger of Death was cool - this is a local area of affect FoD, but 2 levels higher DC)
Meteor Swarm: (very nice to have. Great bludgeon and fire damage. When combined with Scorching Ray and Delayed Blast Fireball, not must you can't kill that is affected by fire)
Level Drain: (must! Great to help land Flesh to Stone and FoD for high level creatures in high level content)
Hold Moster, Mass: (very good to have. Works great, but haven't had must experience with it in epic so far.)

There are a lot of spells and spell areas that I haven't tried and don't bother with. What I listed above are what I use on my 2 capped Sorcs for all content including epic.

I hope this helps!

[Xiadais]

Thanks for telling me a little more about how necessary some spells are. I edited my spell list. I would still like to know what I should do for my last 3 feats and if there are any more enhancement/spell changes to be made. Keep on looking back at my first post to see what I want to know. Also, if anyone else can help me that would be great.

[Xiadais]

I changed around some of my enhancements, replacing subtle spellcasting and concentration with acid/elec stuff. I also put in improved heightening I instead of.... I don't even remember what I took out, it was that bad. I decided that I AM going to take heightening for CoC, frost lance, ball lightning, and all of the other stuff with saves. However, I don't know where I am going to place it since I don't know what levels my other two undecided feats need to go in. It would be nice if someone would evaluate my spell list to:
1. Help me with my undecided ones,
2. Tell me if it's worth it to take spell pen with so few spells with SR, and
3. Tell me which feats would be appropriate for the spell list.

I still need help!

[Xiadais]

I changed some things in my first post, such as editing the spell list, adding a condensed enhancement list, and tweaking a few other things. I still want help with my feat choices, spell list, and enhancements, though.

[Xiadais]

Is there anyone out there who is willing to help me? I had lots of help, but I still need more, and suddenly the help has all disappeared...

[Xiadais]

I'm thinking that I'll take Heighten as my level 15 feat, Spell Focus: Evocation as my level 12 feat, and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation for level 18.

...Or do I NEED the Spell Pen feats?

Also, I've heard that incendiary cloud sucks. Should I get rid of it? Yeah, I need help with one lvl 6, one lvl 7, one lvl 8, and one lvl 9 spell... I think it would be nice to have Protection From Elements, Mass, because then I can just buff the whole party. I think Chain Lightning would be the better choice of 6th level spell because I probably won't be able to get Flesh to Stone to land. The 8th and 9th questionable spells I chose are just because there really wasn't anything better without spell pen that I could find. Any recommendations for those would be nice.

[vorpel]

IMO Protection from Elements, Mass is a waste on a Sorc. Get the single target version at level 5, and leave the Mass to the cleric, etc. With your larger pool of mana, it isn't a big deal to cast Prot on each person in your normal party. In raids - someone else will always have the Mass covered.

There are just too many nice spells at level 7:

Delayed Blast Fireball
Finger of Death
Otto's Sphere
Symbol of Stunning
Waves of Exhaustion

For your feats - go with Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen. Down the road, you can always switch out.

As far as what order to take feats. Greater Spell Pen and Greater Spell Focus are the only ones that a Sorc would take that can't be taken as early as level 1 (as they require the first Spell Pen or Spell Focus). Feat order on a Sorc is dead easy.

Enjoy!

I'm thinking that I'll take Heighten as my level 15 feat, Spell Focus: Evocation as my level 12 feat, and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation for level 18.

...Or do I NEED the Spell Pen feats?

Also, I've heard that incendiary cloud sucks. Should I get rid of it? Yeah, I need help with one lvl 6, one lvl 7, one lvl 8, and one lvl 9 spell... I think it would be nice to have Protection From Elements, Mass, because then I can just buff the whole party. I think Chain Lightning would be the better choice of 6th level spell because I probably won't be able to get Flesh to Stone to land. The 8th and 9th questionable spells I chose are just because there really wasn't anything better without spell pen that I could find. Any recommendations for those would be nice.

[Xiadais]

So you're positive I need spell pen feats?

If so, should I completely dump the idea of not having spell pen requiring spells? And if I take the spell pen feats don't I need to somehow stuff the spell pen enhancements into my enhancements? Taking off all of my elec/acid would give me 5 AP, and if I don't need the third tier of charisma I could take THAT off too for a total of 11 AP. Three spell pen enhancements = 10 AP, so I could put one elec/acid enhancement back in. But which one? The 10% damage, 3% crit, or .25 crit multiplier?

I guess you've kind of talked me into spell pen (boo!), so I will take all the spell pen-y options for my undecided spells...

As for feats, I think I'll keep my current order, but put spell pen at 12, heighten at 15, and greater spell pen at 18. Does that sound good? Or does heighten need to be taken at a different level?


EDIT: Wait a minute... I don't think that it's possible to take out the elec/acid enhancements because of prerequisite points spent... I guess I'll try to work it out later today when I have the chance to.

2nd EDIT: Yep, it's not possible. At level 5, I need one extra AP spent... Wait, I could forego enhancements until level 9 when I get toughness! Sadly, that's the ONLY possible way I can remove the elec/acid enhancements and be able to have more than 13 AP spent. Yep, I will work it out later today. Btw, thanks vorpel.

[ekniff]

The problem with you not wanting to take spell penetration is that all damage spells with the exception of polar ray can be resisted.

correct.

I believe you made a mistake. Damaging spells do NOT have spell penetration. They have saves. Spell penetration feats/enhancements affect SR, not the DCs on saves. Perhaps heighten would be useful for Cone of Cold, Delayed Blast Fireball, etc saves...

correct too.


what lunzatis means is that:
-"The problem with you not wanting to take spell penetration" means "not taking spell penetration is bad because..."
-"all damage spells with the exception of polar ray can be resisted" means "damage spells can be easily resisted"

Damage spells are fairly useless because of a couple of reasons:
First, the amount of HP an enemy mob has is huge. Your spell is going to be a scratch.
Second, most of these spells have reflex saves, and with evasion, you can't even scratch anymore.

Generally speaking, it is easily to break SR than to counter the problems stated above.


Hope this helped.