When is Wisdom needed on a Paladin

[pappo]

Is WiS needed, and when on a Paladin build?
A lot of the builds I see here all start with 8 WIS which means you will not see spells for a while since you will have a hard time getting any +3 WIS items to allow even level 1 Pally spells until you are mid level.
The formula is 10+Paladin Spell level = WIS isn't it ? So Pally level 1 spells need 11 WIS ?

[Zachski]

Correct. Basically, level 12 is around the time Paladin spells start getting useful (Or so I've been told)

If you really want to be casting spells at level 4 though, there is a solution.

Get an Owl's Wisdom clickie Might be hard to find, but that's a solution. It'll bring you up to 12 Wisdom.

[hydra_ex]

Correct. Basically, level 12 is around the time Paladin spells start getting useful (Or so I've been told)

If you really want to be casting spells at level 4 though, there is a solution.

Get an Owl's Wisdom clickie Might be hard to find, but that's a solution. It'll bring you up to 12 Wisdom.

Or just a wand.

[Bobthesponge]

8 wis is just fine. you don't get lvl 1 spells until lvl 4 and then lvl 2 spells at 8, lvl 3 at 12, ect... by that time you should be able to find an appropriate +X wisdom item. or if not, owl's wisdom comes in pots...

[Seelowe]

only paladin builds that usually do not dump wisdom are monk splashes. even then, usually only on TRs since stats are spread thin for pallies.

owl's wisdeom wands/pots combined with some form of item to grant you temporary spellpoints which you will equip before you rest will allow you to buff up fully before switching back to your regular gear. usually some type of item or power I, II, III, etc as you level up as you will find the initial paladin sp pool at lvl 4 is 2 spell points with a dump wisdom iirc

concerning using a wisdom item at cap, it is good to know that it is the easiest to fit in, since you can get it on your greensteel items as well quite often seen on concordant opposition items in paladin builds.

cheers

[unbongwah]

only paladin builds that usually do not dump wisdom are monk splashes.

Or paladin / clerics who are caster-focused.

[pappo]

Correct. Basically, level 12 is around the time Paladin spells start getting useful (Or so I've been told)

If you really want to be casting spells at level 4 though, there is a solution.

Get an Owl's Wisdom clickie Might be hard to find, but that's a solution. It'll bring you up to 12 Wisdom.

I bought a few Owl pots and it raised my SP to 17 so I could cast one Seek Eternal Rest spell, but only when I was outside a quest, and the spell was gone when I went inside.
Inside the quests, the SP bar goes up but then right back down to 2 SP.

[shadow_419]

Sp progression on Paladins is very slow regardless of wis score. Have you taken any of the "Energy of the Templar" enhancements?

[honkuimushi]

I bought a few Owl pots and it raised my SP to 17 so I could cast one Seek Eternal Rest spell, but only when I was outside a quest, and the spell was gone when I went inside.
Inside the quests, the SP bar goes up but then right back down to 2 SP.

Wands are generally preferred because they're cheaper/cast and you can loot wands with higher caster levels that last 6-10 minutes. You need to first cast it in the tavern to select spells then once you have your spells loaded, cast it again inside the quest to allow spell casting.

This will not give you usable spell points, as you learned, but you can use energy of the Templar or other spell point enhancements and spell point items to give you enough spell points to cast spells.

Also, Seek Eternal Rest is pretty useless. Turning is pretty weak for Clerics, and it's even worse for Paladins. Standard low level spells are Divine Favor, Virtue, and Resist Energy.

[pappo]

Wands are generally preferred because they're cheaper/cast and you can loot wands with higher caster levels that last 6-10 minutes. You need to first cast it in the tavern to select spells then once you have your spells loaded, cast it again inside the quest to allow spell casting.

This will not give you usable spell points, as you learned, but you can use energy of the Templar or other spell point enhancements and spell point items to give you enough spell points to cast spells.

Here is what I did.
1. went to tavern, drank WIS pot.
2. moved spell into lvl 1 spell slot, then moved spell to my hotbar.
3. went into quest,and drank a pot.
4. hotbar spell is still "gray.. unusable" because SP = 2

[pappo]

Sp progression on Paladins is very slow regardless of wis score. Have you taken any of the "Energy of the Templar" enhancements?

I have not taken Energy of the Templar because my WIS was only 8 it seemed like a waste of an AP for minimal SP. Also I knew I could reset my enhancements later if I wanted to change. Also, I have not decided on whether to be a DOS or KoTC build. Level 6 is next and I will decide then.

[dkyle]

Here is what I did.
1. went to tavern, drank WIS pot.
2. moved spell into lvl 1 spell slot, then moved spell to my hotbar.
3. went into quest,and drank a pot.
4. hotbar spell is still "gray.. unusable" because SP = 2

Increasing your bonus SP stat (in a Pali's case, WIS) does not increase available SP. It only increases the max SP. Since buffs such as Owl's Wisdom go away when zoning in, or shrining, they are useless for gaining SP. Those pots are only good for getting your WIS high enough to be able to cast.

Find a Power or Wizardry item, and wear that to increase your max SP. You might get a scepter of Power or Wizardry, for example, equip it before shrining, use the sp to buff, then swap in your weapon.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Wisdom of 11-14 is needed to memerise and cast Pal spells.

Wisdom adds to Pal SP.

Also adds to Pal spell save DC, but off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single Pal spell with a save.... (ok I guess healing against undead.)


Lots of build experts recommend an 8 Wis (maybe even a 6) for Pallies.

This post makes me glad that I never listen to the experts.

But I cannot imagine trying to make a 28pt Pal. And have not even tried to make a WF Pal.

[Halaryel]

get red fen ring (thats free) +4 wisdom at level 7
or
ML5 you can get Bound to account items with +3wisdom (access to level 1 spell)
ML7 you can buy +3 wisdom ring (or necklace) at auction or broker (expensive)
ML9 you can buy +3 wisdom ring (or necklace) at auciton or broker (cheap, because have trash stats with it)
ML9 you can buy +4 wisdom ring (or necklace) at auction or broker
ML11 you can buy +4 wisdom ring (or necklace) at auciton or broker (cheap, because have trash stats with it)

and so on...i recommand getting the easy red fen ring. don't complain about your pityfull SP. wands or pots are way enough in the begining.

[dkyle]

Lots of build experts recommend an 8 Wis (maybe even a 6) for Pallies.

This post makes me glad that I never listen to the experts.

What in this thread makes you think spending build points on WIS is a good idea for Palis? That its mildly tricky to cast at fourth level? Ninth level and beyond, the item bonus progression out-paces the Pali spell level progression. Owl's pots work until then. Is slightly easier casting for a few low levels worth losing effectiveness in some other area the rest of the time?

[shadow_419]

One of the best sp items for low levels is the Crimson Gemstone trinket (Wizardry II) ML 5 from Tangleroot. If you have the pack I'd suggest getting one. Mine has been passed on to every one of my toons with a blue bar.

[TheBroken_JPK]

One of the best sp items for low levels is the Crimson Gemstone trinket (Wizardry II) ML 5 from Tangleroot. If you have the pack I'd suggest getting one. Mine has been passed on to every one of my toons with a blue bar.

This is what I did with my recently created paladin. I kept it until level 11, and switched to a ring of the magi.

Also, there is a ML 5 wisdom +3 necklace that drops from TRG. I used that, as well.

Like the others said, though, there is not a lot of good spells until later on. Once you're paladin level 11 the resist are nice to have, though.

[Seelowe]

Or paladin / clerics who are caster-focused.

that probably would be a cleric build though then, wouldn't it?


edit to avoid double post:

I have not taken Energy of the Templar because my WIS was only 8 it seemed like a waste of an AP for minimal SP. Also I knew I could reset my enhancements later if I wanted to change. Also, I have not decided on whether to be a DOS or KoTC build. Level 6 is next and I will decide then.

one of the prerequisites for "Knight of the ChaliceI" is Energy of the templar I, so that you will be taking one way or another early on. might as well take it at the time you are most pressed for sp.
later on you will have to take the 2nd tier of Energy of the templar as well to take Knight of the ChaliceII, so don't feel you are "wasting" your AP in any case since it is a given you will take them eventually.

[Tom_Hunters]

Pally needs WIS, but surely there are better ways to get them instead of using stat allocation at creation

Anybody will tell u about base 8 + 6 item=14 and so good enough for any pally spell, or maybe + 2 tome (16) if u like more will save or sp.

But just be reminded if u want to do bit more than just swinging a sword, u will need sp items
I myself have a +6 wis and bonus SP greensteel cloak, and i use all these extra sp (more than 300) to buff team and me, before i switch to some other cloaks before fight (around 300 sp left for divine favor/sacrifice/virtue)



i am one of the pally with 14 starting stat (that's when I, regretfully, followed the default path in DDO)
and i totally agree it's a waste of pt allocation

why?
even with my 14 WIS,
at level 1-7, i was very far from being able to heal myself. Actually the sp is never sufficient for divine favors, virtues, prayers, and some timely energy resist

at around level 14, things grew better because I never tried to heal myself anymore, but sp is still not enough, especially if u want to help buffing

at level 16 onwards, my sp will probably be ok for short fights and quests, but in longer fights or raids, where I just constantly press divine sacrifice, my SP will run to bottom before quest ends


so the point is,
you will need SP
but WIS 8 don't hurt ur ability to cast, while WIS 14 can't make u cast enough, and most importantly
SP can be optained by other means like items, AP

So why not keep a low WIS and save ur pt for sth else?

[pappo]

that probably would be a cleric build though then, wouldn't it?


edit to avoid double post:

one of the prerequisites for "Knight of the ChaliceI" is Energy of the templar I, so that you will be taking one way or another early on. might as well take it at the time you are most pressed for sp.
later on you will have to take the 2nd tier of Energy of the templar as well to take Knight of the ChaliceII, so don't feel you are "wasting" your AP in any case since it is a given you will take them eventually.

I am taking the Defender of Siberys path for now, and just wanted the turns so I could put a bunch of undead down when they surround me due to my intimidate/hate drawing them to me.
Is that a bad line of thinking ?
i can always change a feat and reset enhancements if I want to try Knight of The Chalice, can't I ?