Noob build - advice please.

[Locke_L]

Only been playing a couple weeks. Got a rogue lvl4 I'm not too happy with. Wanting to play a healer/buffer type with good combat skills. More on the combat and soloing side of things, with healing and buffing as an invaluable side benefit. Bad thing here is lack of skills. But a cleric ain't gonna have a ton of skill points anyway. I just hope I don't get knocked on my arse too much.

Might decide to swap lvl 6 and lvl 9 feats around. Extend might should be 6 and toughness 9. Would have to shuffle enhancements a little, but no prob. Notice I only went for Radiant servant 1 and not 2. My reasoning for that is the enhancements I chose i feel are too valuable for the heal bumps and extra sp. I like cranking the hp buffs too.

I would be grateful for input.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
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Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 362
Spell Points: 1433 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 5
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    22
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         20                    22
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               11                    14
Charisma              6                     6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     3
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         9                    29
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  0                     4
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  3                     6
Listen                0                     2
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                  0                     2
Swim                  3                     6
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 5 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV


Level 11 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 13 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 17 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing III


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith IV


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I

[FlyingTurtle]

This is not a good base for critique (too many things wrong with it).

Start with one of the basic builds by Tihocan, Sirgog, or Unbongwah (check newbie forums and cleric forums). Make some tweaks if you want, comment on your rationale, see if they're right.

[Spoonwelder]

I would also suggest a paladin.

From your comments this may fill your desire to melée better and soloing is pretty easy for a paladin. Self buffs of a pally are as good as it gets aside from bards.

Just an option to consider.

[Irinis]

First, even to just selfheal, you want more wisdom than that.
Second, Clerics don't get proficiency in any two-handed weapon aside from quarterstaff which is really not that great so you would have to take a weapon proficiency for something like greataxe or falchion.
Third, two-handed fighting feats got nerfed and are pretty much useless now.
Fourth, your feat order is a little whacked. You really don't need quicken that early.

The only good thing about this build is that it's pure 20 cleric and can get the capstone. But I didn't see the capstone in your chosen enhancements.

As FlyingTurtle said, there are many great builds out there, read them and learn them first then tweak from there.

[unbongwah]

I prefer battle clerics who remain caster-focused. My view is if you want to play a melee-focused char with divine spells on the side, you're better off with paladin or ranger; as a cleric your best defense and offense comes from your spells. It's just fun being able to swing a greataxe as well.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
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Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
(2 Fighter \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 346
Spell Points: 1199 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 5
Will: 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    16
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         18                    20
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               16                    24
Charisma              6                     6

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting (swap for Power Attack at higher lvls)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Cleric Heal I
Enhancement: Cleric Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I

Melee DPS won't be awesome, but with base STR 16 + PA + buffs + decent greataxe it should be good enough to mop up trash mobs, letting you save your offensive spells for tougher fights.

[sigtrent]

You are min-maxing your stats as if you were a barbarian and then picking feats and enhancements as if you were a support cleric. That's not going to work out very well. You end up wasting each side because the other isn't supporting it.

If you want those stats, you should multiclass into fighter or paladin. If you want the class/feats you chose, you need to make more moderate stats that will support them.

Character building is about Synergies between different build elements. Sometimes you can make some seemingly odd choices and it works, here I think you are wasting some of your choices.

The build in the post above demonstrates a more traditional foundation for a battle focused cleric. It starts with strong melee skill which maintains pretty well and it shifts over time into casting focus as that becomes more viable.

[FlyingTurtle]

I prefer battle clerics who remain caster-focused.

Questions:

1. Heighten pick at level 18: Which spells are being heightened? Also, with -2 penalty to caster level checks (due to 2 fighter levels), are these heightened spells effective?
2. 6 Cha: Is this enough for RS enhancements?
3. Empower: How crucial is having a BB Maximized and Empowered? Are you Heightening it too? Won't that be a big drain on SP?

Thanks in advance.

[unbongwah]

1. Heighten pick at level 18: Which spells are being heightened? Also, with -2 penalty to caster level checks (due to 2 fighter levels), are these heightened spells effective?

Heighten affects DC checks (i.e., offensive spells like Blade Barrier & Greater Command), which are based on spell level; so as long as you have lvl 9 spells, Heighten will boost your lower-lvl spells. Spell Penetration is based on caster level; that's what suffers from having 2 ftr lvls. Read the spell descriptions; if it says Spell Resistance applies, then it takes a Spell Penetration check.

2. 6 Cha: Is this enough for RS enhancements?

None of the RS pre-reqs have a min CHA req (except Divine Might I and it's only one of the options); and once you have RS, I think your turns should regenerate fast enough not to be a problem. You'll still be able to use a +CHA item, of course, as well take CHA or extra turn enhs if need be.

3. Empower: How crucial is having a BB Maximized and Empowered? Are you Heightening it too? Won't that be a big drain on SP?

It's one of those things where it depends on the situation: sometimes you want a Blade Barrier which does max dmg for as long as possible as you kite tons of mobs thru it; other times a regular BB will suffice. It takes practice & experience to figure out when to switch your metas on & off. But IMHO it's far better to have a meta you don't need 95% of the time than to lack a meta you really want for that remaining 5%.

[FlyingTurtle]

Thanks for the answers.

Heighten affects DC checks (i.e., offensive spells like Blade Barrier & Greater Command), which are based on spell level; so as long as you have lvl 9 spells, Heighten will boost your lower-lvl spells. Spell Penetration is based on caster level; that's what suffers from having 2 ftr lvls. Read the spell descriptions; if it says Spell Resistance applies, then it takes a Spell Penetration check.

I knew this; what I was referring to was the fact that most of the DC-based spells are subject to SR, so if SR is prevalent at late game then Heighten helps with DC but the extra fighter level penalizes SR. Relatively speaking this tradeoff is recommended by you so I imagine raising DCs are more important than punching though SR. I guess SR just isn't that common and/or high at late game.

[Dragavon]

I guess SR just isn't that common and/or high at late game.

You could not be more wrong

[unbongwah]

I guess SR just isn't that common and/or high at late game.

No, SR is definitely an issue, but it doesn't apply to every spell: e.g., according to the Compendium, Implosion, Fire Storm, Blade Barrier, and Cometfall have no SR check; Greater Command, Energy Drain, and Destruction do. [It seems to me that DPS spells usually don't have SR checks, while CC & instakill spells do, but I'm not sure if that's universally true.] I'm not sure how high you need to get your Spell Penetration to be effective at endgame; but if you find yourself having trouble getting those spells to land, you either avoid using them or invest more effort in boosting your Spell Pen.

EDIT: every battle cleric sacrifices some offensive spellcasting for better melee DPS. The trick is finding an optimal balance so you're not gimped at either. I also believe every battle cleric should try to be a good healer; that way if their offensive spells end up too weak to land, they can still contribute heals & some melee DPS to any group.