Clerics and raid loot (Rant)

[Karavek]

You probably came into this thread thinking I was mad about some cleric looting a named item. Well you're wrong, it's the other way around.

I give up TONS of raid loot for roll the reason being I don't want or use them. But one of the loot I actually want drops for me and you give me flak when I want to keep it?

Let me ask you this, why do you think Clerics run raids? To spend tons of pots and scrolls only to NOT have a chance at loot? To NOT be able to keep what they want? What loot do you have in mind is actually 'Cleric Loot'?


Here's a list I compiled that people think are the only things Clerics are allowed to take:

1) Dragon's Eye
2) Hammer of Life
3) Nullcloth Gown (because it's useless)
4) Shining Crest of St. Markus
5) Gauntlets of Eternity
6) Deific Diadem
7) Lorrick's Set
8) ToD rings

That's it (I may have missed a few)!! Do we not get to keep other stuff? When I say I can use the item, I mean it. There's no reason for me to pick up BtC items if it's completely useless!!

I want these items but people never let me loot them:

1) Sword of Shadow (For the epic version) (Melees will scream bloody murder)
2) Belt of Brute Strength
3) Gyroscopic Boots of Striding
4) Skull Fetish Mask
5) Bracer's of the Demon Consort
6) Staff of Arcane Power (Globe of invulnerability)
7) Torc of Prince Rayium-de II (The arcanes will start complaining if you go near these)
8) Ring of Lies
9) Litany of the Dead
10) Bracers of the Glacier (Whiny arcane claims these)
11) Gloves of the Glacier (Same as above)
12) Ring of Thelis

That's all I want. Some raids don't even have 'Cleric Loot'. Why are we even wasting our resources just so you can have an extra chance at raid loot? I'm sick of it. Think of the clerics for once.

P.S. I did not include Eardweller because it can be soloed and is not raid loot. You probably don't think Clerics can use Eardweller as well.

P.P.S. I'm not complaining that I don't get a roll on items that dropped for you. It's your loot, your rules. If you don't think Clerics can use them FINE but if it drops for me and I want to keep it then S.T.F.U

You have loot drop for you you got first dibs always period. Anyone who wants it better be willing to offer your WHATEVER you want in trade or coin.

This attempt to bully clerics into being mindless healing slaves with no reguard for thier own characters interest is frelling BS and needs to end.

To that effect I think the only answer is clerics become the only class able to actively harm thier fellow players. They should be able to use cause harm spells as readily as heal spells on players to allow any cleric feeling offended by being told what to do by the dime a dozen sword swinging muscle bound moron who keeps yelling heal at the ancient and wise cleric who is touched by the divine, he can end up dead ALOT faster and learn not to tell others how to play.

[Phidius]

the only time I question somone about raid loot and even then I never say things in party chat I just make a mental note is with the Chattering Ring. I've seen several casters who I'm sure AC was 18 pull it and loot it(in a party full of monks and AC build hopefuls!!!)....and yes this was way before the ability to TR came out.
...

That was back when an AC of 55 was actually helpful in the content capped toons (16) were running in, something even a caster could achieve if they put their mind to it.

[Chette]

I hear ya!

When my Cleric was relatively new she pulled bracers of the glacier in VoD and got completely guilted into giving them to an arcane that already had the gloves. I have regretted it ever since and nearly two months later am still trying to get them. Three more completions and hopefully they'll show up as an end reward.

I'm really sick of people pidgeon holing people in general into what loot they can and can not take. Non-rogues can roll on Tharnes goggles. Non-intimis can roll on Head of Good Fortune. You are not the only person that can use it and I am not here just to help you get your raid loot.

[soupertc]

That was back when an AC of 55 was actually helpful in the content capped toons (16) were running in, something even a caster could achieve if they put their mind to it.

No trust me these weren't on casters who could get thier AC up that high....cause people asked(I wasn't one of em....I don't have or ever will have an AC toon ).

[AMDarkwolf]

most of the stuff u list seems perfectly fine for a cleric, but the sword of shadows, honestly, if a cleric, even a battle cleric(and no battle cleric ive ran with was able to be a 'full healer' in epics, being more a backup slightly stronger heals than a monk build...) if a cleric rolled on that, I would honestly, and sorry, deny him his roll. A cleric(or sorc, or wiz, etc, without being a clear melee build and/or not totally sucking and just tagging along) who rolls on stuff like this is really just one of those ppl who type /roll d100 as soon as a person starts to say 'anyone want this, roll..." (Those are the guys that are pretty much just coasting though the quest, doing as little as possible but staying near the group to avoid being noticed. Loot hogs.)

Now don't get me wrong, most of the stuff u did mention is great for a cleric, and in most cases, if it was 'he who can use most' the clerics / healers usually get that stuff first, so not sure what u complaining about. (Remember too that most of that stuff is equally useful to anyone, of any build or play style, so your competing against those people as well)

[LuckyLuke2]

1) Sword of Shadow (For the epic version) (Melees will scream bloody murder)
2) Belt of Brute Strength
3) Gyroscopic Boots of Striding
4) Skull Fetish Mask
5) Bracer's of the Demon Consort
6) Staff of Arcane Power (Globe of invulnerability)
7) Torc of Prince Rayium-de II (The arcanes will start complaining if you go near these)
8) Ring of Lies
9) Litany of the Dead
10) Bracers of the Glacier (Whiny arcane claims these)
11) Gloves of the Glacier (Same as above)
12) Ring of Thelis

As an Wf'ed FVS I'll add Levik's Bracers, Madstone Boots or even a Madstone Shield to that list .. :-)

I clearly pass on Litany but WILL roll for al the remainder (or actually keep it if it drops for me), though the Staff of Arcane Power is not a high priority list.

For most items that are on that list, no one ever complained that I either rolled for or grabbed them. Maybe it's a server issue ?

[rossiza]

Your getting screwed by someone, who said you cant loot that stuff, I've seen clerics do it with no objection often..

And if its your loot ?

[fuzzy1guy]

If it dropped in your name. it's yours to loot. No matter what it is. If you can use it at all. TAKE IT! if they whine.. /squelch them and move on.

If its up for roll its up for ANYONE of ANYCLASS to roll on. (At least when i put stuff up. I don't care why they want it.)


Anything other than that and it had better be stated at the start of the raid. Long before the quest ever begins. And if you don't like the rules they state.. Drop group. If you go anyway and still don't like it... You might be dumb. :P

If they don't state any rules and try to pull that **** at the chest. loot. /squelch and drop group. move on. And the next time they come begging for a cleric. Tell them no!

[Kriogen]

You probably came into this thread thinking I was mad about some cleric looting a named item. Well you're wrong, it's the other way around.
...

Others just want the loot. Has nothing to do with 'cleric'.

It's:
- Ayumi got cool toys
- *I* want those toys
- I will "persuade" Ayumi to give me stuff
- ... pffft, that was easy, hehehe ... oooooo shiny ....

It never has anything to do with <class should get this or not>. It's just simple greed.

[archora]

I have no problem with any character taking something that is useful to them, especialy a healer taking a melee weapon etc. I dont see a point in healbots that do nothing but heal, no cc, no melee as a lot of the time they are hanging about doing nothing. There is a caster in my guild that has an epic ancient greataxe, he has this so he can be more useful more of the time, while it may not be great dps, any extra dps is a good thing. Im sure some would dispute the value of his having it but most people applaud him for it.

Regarding the battlecleric thing that was mentioned before, if that is the experience with battleclerics then you are running with bad builds/players as the only difference over a pure cleric is usualy a few less sp when it comes down to healing. There are many great battleclerics out there that can solo heal raids etc.

If I can use an item in any way then it comes away with me, if not then I put it up for roll to anyone that wants it, then its up to each person to decide if they can use it.

[PNellesen]

Regardless of class, I would never presume to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do with any loot that drops in their name, and I usually congratulate someone if they get something particularly nice. Unless the rules for certain items were stated up front by the leader before any chest has been opened, I would ignore anybody who claimed I should put something I looted up for roll as well. If they don't like it, they're welcome to find another group.

[Eladiun]

Ring of Lies... I actually left that in a chest because no one wanted it and I had one on my Wizard because no one wanted it the last time it dropped.

To the main point... I let healers do as they wish so they will continue to come. I always found there was a distinct lack of healer targeted items in raids across the board.

[Uska]

I hear you but what does my guild have to do with it

[Quikster]

most of the stuff u list seems perfectly fine for a cleric, but the sword of shadows, honestly, if a cleric, even a battle cleric(and no battle cleric ive ran with was able to be a 'full healer' in epics, being more a backup slightly stronger heals than a monk build...) if a cleric rolled on that, I would honestly, and sorry, deny him his roll. A cleric(or sorc, or wiz, etc, without being a clear melee build and/or not totally sucking and just tagging along) who rolls on stuff like this is really just one of those ppl who type /roll d100 as soon as a person starts to say 'anyone want this, roll..." (Those are the guys that are pretty much just coasting though the quest, doing as little as possible but staying near the group to avoid being noticed. Loot hogs.)

Now don't get me wrong, most of the stuff u did mention is great for a cleric, and in most cases, if it was 'he who can use most' the clerics / healers usually get that stuff first, so not sure what u complaining about. (Remember too that most of that stuff is equally useful to anyone, of any build or play style, so your competing against those people as well)

If the cleric has proficiency the ESoS will add more to their melee prowess than it will to a barb/fighter/paly. The larger damage die is nothing compared to the +10 on the weapon.

Watch your pugs cuz I just finished planning my rad servant battle cleric that will most certainly be looking for an ESOS. Im in the process right now of lr'ing the current build to another class for a different past life feat, and once thats done Ill be starting the grind

Oh and so long as the cleric has mass heal, he can melee and heal just as well as stand back and heal. I prefer a cleric who mixes it up instead of sits back and watches everything myself.

[Nexx]

I believe in letting anyone who can use the item,
regardless of their class, roll for whatever and if
they win - they win. No sense in giving anyone
a background check as to why they want the item,
especially since they've implemented the TR system.

Just doesn't make any sense to throw a fit or block
certain classes from rolling on any item. That's my opinion
though and everyone has a different view on what is
to be done with loot rolls.

Hopefully you get the items you're looking for Ayumi!

[Phidius]

...
Watch your pugs cuz I just finished planning my rad servant battle cleric that will most certainly be looking for an ESOS. Im in the process right now of lr'ing the current build to another class for a different past life feat, and once thats done Ill be starting the grind ...

Which server?

[Quikster]

Which server?

My server

Sarlona

[Dunfalach]

If it dropped in your name. it's yours to loot. No matter what it is. If you can use it at all. TAKE IT! if they whine.. /squelch them and move on.

Just one of many posts saying the same thing, and all correct. If it drops for you, it's your loot. Do with it what you want.

I'm only just getting into the level to start looking at raids, and I've seen enough complaint threads about how raid drops work to to get that part of the reason this becomes such an argument is that there's no guarantee of ever seeing the loot you want when you raid. I can understand the frustration when it pops for people other than you. But it still belongs to whoever it pops for, to do with as they see fit.

I've had someone suggest rolling on loot a couple of times in ordinary quests. Gwylan's Stand for instance. I did have a Durk's Got a Secret run where a generous person offered rolls on Muckbane that dropped for her as she already had 2. One guy who really wanted it rolled very poorly (a 6 I think it was), but the rest of us declined and let him have it.

People need to remember that loot rolling is a gift, not a rule.

[Thrudh]

I want these items but people never let me loot them:

Do you mean people won't let you roll on them? Because if it drops for you, take it.

1) Sword of Shadow (For the epic version) (Melees will scream bloody murder) I would probably only let melees roll on this too
2) Belt of Brute Strength anyone can roll
3) Gyroscopic Boots of Striding anyone can roll
4) Skull Fetish Mask anyone can roll
5) Bracer's of the Demon Consort anyone can roll
6) Staff of Arcane Power (Globe of invulnerability) you have enough UMD to use this?
7) Torc of Prince Rayium-de II (The arcanes will start complaining if you go near these) any caster can roll
8) Ring of Lies anyone can roll
9) Litany of the Dead anyone can roll
10) Bracers of the Glacier (Whiny arcane claims these) any caster can roll
11) Gloves of the Glacier (Same as above) any caster can roll
12) Ring of Thelis anyone can roll

but if it drops for me and I want to keep it then S.T.F.U

I just saw the end of your post... Of course you can keep whatever you loot, including Sword of Shadows, etc. Wow, people have complained if you got Ring of Lies and kept it?

[Thrudh]

I didn't realize you were talking about loot that fell under YOUR name in the chest....

You say people won't let you loot your own loot? How do they stop you?

Don't worry about getting blacklisted... No one who is any good at this game blacklists anyone for taking their OWN loot.