Sell me on a rogue

[Impaqt]

I've played several ranger/rogue hybrids, which are much more ranger than rogue. Why? They tend to do pretty great in combat and can also use wands and handle most traps/locks except for the truly hardest ones in the game. I am considering making a rogue but I just do not see the point. Someone try to sell me on the idea of a mostly rogue based character.

Would someone besides you care one way or another whether it not you play a rogue?

If you are thinking about it, Do a little research on you own. If you have already made up your mind(it seems you have) why would anyone bother trying to "sell you" on it
B

[Ssmooth]

That big gust of wind you felt blowing by recently was this one flying right over your head.

I smell what your steppin in...sometimes sarcasm isn't herd in the werds.

[Kinesthetic]

Your amazing insight and superb advice is beyond exceptional. The degree to which you delved into detail raguarding facts and statistics backed up with multiple references is highly usefull.

Triple troll'd.

[Razcar]

*snip*
You did want me to sell you a rogue, right?
*snap*

Haha great post, +1

Personally I don't see the point of rangers. On my ranger life I kept thinking anything a ranger can do, a rogue can do better.

Hmmm... +5 barkskin? Guess that's about it. OK, and doing some ranged DPS every 2 minutes. If Turbine introduces another +5 natural AC bonus that's not too hard to get I guess they'll be dead and buried.

[voidholder]

Personally I don't see the point of rangers. On my ranger life I kept thinking anything a ranger can do, a rogue can do better.

Hmmm... +5 barkskin? Guess that's about it. OK, and doing some ranged DPS every 2 minutes. If Turbine introduces another +5 natural AC bonus that's not too hard to get I guess they'll be dead and buried.

Yes pretty much what came to me recently... I was thinking of TRing my tempest rogue into an exploiter (ranger 18/rogue1/monk1), but then started thinking that what does rangers really have to offer... I feel manyshot is sometimes useful but even that might be because of all the sneak attack damage that gets applied to it. So more ranger might actually make a rogue/ranger hybrid worse in archery?

Not convinced that tempest 3 bonuses are more useful than sneak attack... Good thing I still have time to think what to TR into =)

[karl_k0ch]

Doing Damage to Undead and Elementals. Higher Main and Off Hand Proc rate. Unsituational to-hit bonuses. Resists and Heals without wands. Better Fort Saves.
More/easier AC from Tempest and possibly Monk.

And Ssmooth, I like your posts.

[Quarterling]

Doing Damage to Undead and Elementals. Higher Main and Off Hand Proc rate. Unsituational to-hit bonuses. Resists and Heals without wands. Better Fort Saves.
More/easier AC from Tempest and possibly Monk.

Rogue's can't have it all, can they?

Unfortunately, their greatest weakness aside from being squishier than rangers is the loss of sneak attack against undead which Turbine just loves.

I'm loving the Shavarath Battle Ground quests, but I dread when the Twelve member allows access to Dolluruh (or however you spell that).

And Kinesthetic, I now know why you have your rep disabled; because nobody wants to be friends with trolls.

[Kinesthetic]

Rogue's can't have it all, can they?

Unfortunately, their greatest weakness aside from being squishier than rangers is the loss of sneak attack against undead which Turbine just loves.

I'm loving the Shavarath Battle Ground quests, but I dread when the Twelve member allows access to Dolluruh (or however you spell that).

And Kinesthetic, I now know why you have your rep disabled; because nobody wants to be friends with trolls.

Friends? Reputation? Oh god you're one of those 12 years old.

[Quarterling]

Friends? Reputation? Oh god you're one of those 12 years old.

Looking through all of your past posts, you seem to like having only one sentence or even one word in them. Predictably, they all have no supporting detail whatsoever unless the word "lolololol" somehow supports your posts.

Here are some of my favorites that you have made...

I r Top Kill Count LOLZ Man My Team Sux!

And applying my logic, you're a moron.

Rouge are DPS? Stupidest thing I heard all day!

I love how you back up your "rogues are not DPS" statement with no facts whatsoever.

Please PM me all of your character's names in all the servers you play with so I may add them to my ¿friends? list. If I am 12 years old, I fear how old you are.

[Kinesthetic]

Looking through all of your past posts, you seem to like having only one sentence or even one word in them. Predictably, they all have no supporting detail whatsoever unless the word "lolololol" somehow supports your posts.

Here are some of my favorites that you have made...





I love how you back up your "rogues are not DPS" statement with no facts whatsoever.

Please PM me all of your character's names in all the servers you play with so I may add them to my ¿friends? list. If I am 12 years old, I fear how old you are.

1) "Rogue are not dps" troll statement.

2) 12 years old kid gets angry because YOU DON'T ****ING INSULT ROGUES ARGHHH RAGEEEEE

3) Searches all posts about person

4) Request all information about person

5) Thinks he's good at argumentation even though there was absolutely no point to debate

You so mad bro.

[karl_k0ch]

1) "Rogue are not dps" troll statement.

2) 12 years old kid gets angry because YOU DON'T ****ING INSULT ROGUES ARGHHH RAGEEEEE

3) Searches all posts about person

4) Request all information about person

5) Thinks he's good at argumentation even though there was absolutely no point to debate

You so mad bro.

Dear Kinesthetic,
while I agree with some of your statements, I do not agree with the form of their presentation. I regard the form as rude and disruptive. I have the feeling that I am not the only one doing so. If you continue posting in this style, you may end up ignored by your fellow posters and/or reported for being rude.

And sorry for derailing the thread, but I guess that has been already in the one-digit posts.

[kbtegp]

Going back to the original post: Can't sell you on playing a rogue - it needs to be experienced - and you may not like it as it requires a different mindset than most other builds to play. Realistically, you will GIMP the first incarnation regardless of what guide/build/advice you use because most of the combat/twitch/strategies need to be experienced to be used properly. (my first rogue was abt 290 HP at lvl 20 and was utterly useless in high level quests. After a few months of playing and a GR he is now 450 HPs, doesnt die in epic raids and holds his own with tanks in kills b/c of the proper equipment.)

You will deal with people who equate rogues to traps like they equate Clerics and FvS to heals, but you will also find the good players that know and understand the value of a well played rogue in any group.

As an aside - if we all post "rogue" multiple times, does that mean kinsthethic will stop posting soon?? (I'm assuming thats a typo and you dont also have an extreme aversion to makeup...)

[Rameses]

Level 20 Pure Rogue Assassin III with proper capstone is byfar the best DPS in game.
Sure you'll run into situations like vs. undead and certain demons where your DPS will start to show a decrease. But there is other ways around that too.

I am, Rameses!

[Ginetti]

Please don't take any notice of those who claim a Rogue DPS is nothing but amazing.

Even against non crittable mobs, as a TWF rogue, you do decent damage compared to others who are not critting/sneak attacking either.

My rogue is still gimp at lvl 20, and has 427 HP. With madstone double proccing, over 500.

He also sneak attacks for 17d6 +28 damage per swing.

You can out kill count people using epic SOS in quests on Normal, Hard, Elite or Epic - if you play smart, and play right. Get in position to get that flank!

Tips: When running towards a group of held mobs, or a boss that's boxed in, hit your Attack Speed Boost a second or two before you get there, so by the time it's activated, you're withing striking distance.

Get a pair of Tharnes Goggles! These will help to hit and do great additional damage in the form of +5 to hit while sneak attacking - and you should almost Always be sneak attacking - and +8 damage per hit that's a sneak attack.

Max that Strength. Don't bother with a dex rogue. Yes, dex rogues are awesome and so on, but you can have a great reflex save without having to focus on dex, and your to-hit will be just as good, since there are more ways to boost str than there is with dex.

Rage. Madstone. Titans. etc.

If you don't have madstone (or even if you do) grab yourself a divine power clicky. This will give you a BAB of 20 (instead of the rogue 15) at lvl 20. This means you will hit more often (only really an issue on epic) and swing faster.

Another point on madstone boots, it benefits rogues moreso than paldins, rangers, fighters or barbs, in that when it procs, it also converts your BAB from whatever it is to 20. So as a rogue, that's an addional +5 to hit. If you're not hitting you're not dpsing.

Halfing race - str based (maxed at start) - khopesh wielding - max cunning and guile (some will say x3 ranks are enough, don't listen to this!) play smart, in that you need to get that flank while fighting - get some good gear - have at least 12 int and you'll be able to get all those traps in Epic like i'm doing - watch things die fast.

In short - if you like dpsing on fleshies and critable objects, this is your class.
If you like competing with rangers, barbs, fighters, pallies or monks for kill count, and winning, this is your class.
If you like sneaky rogue types - this is your class.

[WirelessJoe]

Killing things is fun.

[Draccus]

First, to the OP: You can't be sold on playing a rogue. It's as much about attitude as it is skill points and feats. If you need someone to convince you to play one, you won't enjoy it.

To Shiz: you are one sick SOB. Seek help, man, seek help! And only $3.50? THREE FIDDY? I would think my stack of 75 noisemakers is worth $4.00 alone!

[Razcar]

To Shiz: you are one sick SOB. Seek help, man, seek help! And only $3.50? THREE FIDDY? I would think my stack of 75 noisemakers is worth $4.00 alone!

$3.60 and not a cent more. But then you better be as pretty in a tutu as Shiz said!

[Draccus]

$3.60 and not a cent more. But then you better be as pretty in a tutu as Shiz said!

It's a Smoke II tutu...that makes it sexy.

[DevilButcher]

As an aside - if we all post "rogue" multiple times, does that mean kinsthethic will stop posting soon?? (I'm assuming thats a typo and you dont also have an extreme aversion to makeup...)

No he's like DDO's Candy Man, Don't say "Rogue" 3 or
kinsthethic (pig latin for "sin the thick", guess as thick headed) will come to pester you. RAWR~! (don't worry we all still love you man)

/Signed & trolled

[Asymetric_War]

Killing trash is easy.
You'll be great in epics if you're paired up with a stunner.

But don't expect much against raid bosses (beside's epic velah). Fortification hurts your DPS considerably.


Instead, I would recommend finding a rogue-ish hybrid on the forums. Probably better than a ranger/rogue, and carries more of a rogue feel to it.

fortification is really a non-issue. on most devil bosses it's 25% so 75% of the time your sneak attacks still go through and the rest of the time you've still got the same base damage a ranger would have had.