Improving PvP

[Uska]

So, a few questions.

1. All those people that are against PvP development do not play PvP?
2. If you do not play it then why would improving it be a problem? It does not affect you.
3. Is other people playing it somehow causing you problems?
4. If YOU don't drive do you petition Ford to stop developing car technology?
5. DDO is a PvP game - it has PvP in it - thus making it PvP (OK that was not a question)

For those who have the arguement of developer time / cost - none of us know how many resources Turbine has.

If Turbine have a team for Class / Race / Quest development and the developers choose to improve the PvP and it is updated before anything else this has nothing to do with the resources in the original team.

Umm wasting dev time on pvp affects me so yes it would be a problem it takes time away from making stuff that I and the majority of players want and its not a PvP game its a pve game with a little tiny bit of pvp added after the game had started as an afterthought.

[Uska]

Pffft. Whatever.

There's no reason DDO can't have a good PvP element to it. I think it is a great idea. It would expand gaming experience, and allow people who like to compete with others a chance to do so.

It could be a solid money maker for Turbine if they implemented a system similar to what the OP stated, but made players purchase tourney tickets with their Turbine/favor points.

If Turbine went that route, they should offer more than just 'braggin rights'-type rewards; good gear, unique items and turbine/favor point bundles as top prizes would draw more players. Additional prizes could be guild prestige for guild on guild action.

This would also give F2P players a chance to earn more turbine points through PVP game play rather than favor grinding.

It would also add another facet to character builds since what makes a good party character build is not necessarily what makes a good PvP build. So some players might have fun building adventurer-type characters AND separate PvP characters on the same account.

I think the OP has a good idea. It amuses me how many others just shoot it down outright. Lack of creativity? Stubbornness? Fear of change? Interesting.

Once again any reward beyond bragging can and will be abused so that many it a no go idea as far as I am concerned.

[CrescentCalling_5]

Every freelance worker put on PVP is one less freelance worker on PVE. Even if there are infinite numbers of qualified freelancers out there, there isn't infinite money to hire them.

Do you think DDO's PVE game mechanics are mostly finished?

Well if you consider it this way:

They sure as hell aren't putting any more workers on PvE now, won't later, so the people they have currently taking a short break or not working could be put on PvP.

It makes more sense :/ it's weird how game companies function with worker to management control but sometimes you actually "need" to have PvE and PvP to be able to use 100% of your workers on a project.

[CrescentCalling_5]

Once again any reward beyond bragging can and will be abused so that many it a no go idea as far as I am concerned.

Unless you make it so that PvP rewards are untradeable and soulbound. And only allow things like cosmetics and dyes, emblems, emotes, etc. That way it's impossible to actually trade them in for anything more than...what is effectively...bragging rights (just something to show you have them.)

[Visty]

considering this post:

Well if you consider it this way:

They sure as hell aren't putting any more workers on PvE now, won't later, so the people they have currently taking a short break or not working could be put on PvP.

It makes more sense :/ it's weird how game companies function with worker to management control but sometimes you actually "need" to have PvE and PvP to be able to use 100% of your workers on a project.

you agree with this post:

i have read your post so stop accusing me of things which you think i havent done

want the reasons for my answer?
1. pvp is not needed in this game
2. you award points, that will get abused
3. done

want pvp, go to a pvp game
want pve, stay here

good to see that you changed your mind

[BitkaCK2]

A few quick points/opinions.

1) Any PvP point system that allows any effect in or on the PvE environment is bad for DDO. As soon as it happens people will want "balance" between classes for PvP.

2) DDO was created for people to work together, cooperate even, to overcome greater challenges not petty squabbling over epeen in some arena. I mean how many PnP D&D sessions have you sat down to with your friends just y'all can kill each other's characters over and over?

3) The PvP system you describe already exists in a game called WoW. To me your post translates into "WoW should be f2p".


'Nuff said,
bitkaCK2

[Folonius]

Absolutely not... and a -1 for being Rude and obnoxious. Never make a suggestion and in it tell everyone that doesn't agree with your suggestion to not bother posting.



Visty/AD... +1, Nice replies, short and to the point.

OP-As someone else pointed out... play the game before trying to "save the world"(whether we want it 'saved' or not).

I didn't find it rude and obnoxiuous. +rep to conter the -rep. FYI Op, you can have your rep reviewed and removed if it was given unjustly.

[Uska]

Unless you make it so that PvP rewards are untradeable and soulbound. And only allow things like cosmetics and dyes, emblems, emotes, etc. That way it's impossible to actually trade them in for anything more than...what is effectively...bragging rights (just something to show you have them.)

Still the issue of wasting dev time on something only a minority wants.

[CrescentCalling_5]

considering this post:



you agree with this post:


good to see that you changed your mind

incorrect...actually I have no idea how you drew that conclusion at all o-o

I simply stated that considering the simple fact that they "won't" put any more of their workers on PvE (unless they're managing a HUGE update), that there "are" workers to be allocated, and that there "are" people who want to see some decent PvP put into the game (who doesn't want to have a chance to test their metal against real people instead of levelled AI every once in a while?) then it should make perfect sense that Turbine put the workers they have spared put up into PvP.

So no I haven't changed my mind, I'm simply showing how arguments against PvP are actually in a way arguments for PvP.

[CrescentCalling_5]

Still the issue of wasting dev time on something only a minority wants.

Read some of my other posts on how management allocates workers :/

that'll explain why if they implement PvP under the conditions I put in my first post then it actually won't cut into dev time at all o-o.

[Uska]

Read some of my other posts on how management allocates workers :/

that'll explain why if they implement PvP under the conditions I put in my first post then it actually won't cut into dev time at all o-o.

I dont know what world you live in but in mine there are limited numbers of workers working a limited number of hours so no matter what it will cut into dev time.

[Visty]

incorrect...actually I have no idea how you drew that conclusion at all o-o

because you seem to know how turbine is stuffed. but you cant know it

read a few psots back and you will get it

[Folonius]

turbine has X workers in their staff
you need at least 1 of them to improve PVP
ergo they only have X-1 to work on PVE

simple rule of three

This is correct, I was hoping for a different answer

PvP boils down to opinion, and whether turbine thinks they can pull in more customers by updating and adding on to it while keeping current players in the game. People might make a stink about it getting worked on, but as long as it doesn't change PvE, I doubt people will leave over it.

[Cernunan]

[b]2. This should not be implemented until ALL prestige enhancements, base classes, and other planned PvE features are implemented (I said it below and I'll say it again).

Now just to give a frame of reference, PRs were introduced, say 2 years ago, and we have just under half Pr classes/tiers in place, with the going rate of release being 3ish tiers every 3-5 months.
So they will be intact (not necissarily in working order) in say app one year 6 months.
Thats for PRs alone.

Under your own criteria they would not begin to work on this until 2012.

Just sayin

[CrescentCalling_5]

because you seem to know how turbine is stuffed. but you cant know it

read a few psots back and you will get it

fair enough, I know how they work in general though and I really don't believe Turbine is any exception (+rep on your post though for mentioning that.) considering it's very efficient and cheap that way (you don't have to hire new people, you just have to call up a few numbers whenever you have a big update).

On the off chance they work in some other fashion, it's still very likely that my point would still apply though. Especially considering that the demand for game design employees is nearly enough to make workers pay for their own jobs :/ (and I "wanted" to be a game designer until I saw how easily companies drop them from outsourcing).

[CrescentCalling_5]

Now just to give a frame of reference, PRs were introduced, say 2 years ago, and we have just under half Pr classes/tiers in place, with the going rate of release being 3ish tiers every 3-5 months.
So they will be intact (not necissarily in working order) in say app one year 6 months.
Thats for PRs alone.

Under your own criteria they would not begin to work on this until 2012.

Just sayin

I don't really mind it not popping up for a while. I'm not asking for PvP this year or even the next. I'm asking for it eventually though.

[Visty]

fair enough, I know how they work in general though and I really don't believe Turbine is any exception (+rep on your post though for mentioning that.) considering it's very efficient and cheap that way (you don't have to hire new people, you just have to call up a few numbers whenever you have a big update).

On the off chance they work in some other fashion, it's still very likely that my point would still apply though. Especially considering that the demand for game design employees is nearly enough to make workers pay for their own jobs :/ (and I "wanted" to be a game designer until I saw how easily companies drop them from outsourcing).

but even if they would have freelancers sitting around, then uskas points apply:
why dont they just sit them onto the missing prestige enhancements?
most of the time its just copying some and rename it (monk abunden step vs fav soul leap for example)
or they could already start thinking about what effect each tier will have while the actual coding is done by those who know how to do it. and yet they will only bring 1 prestige line per 2 updates (so every 6-8 months) if we can believe them

that means something

[CrescentCalling_5]

but even if they would have freelancers sitting around, then uskas points apply:
why dont they just sit them onto the missing prestige enhancements?
most of the time its just copying some and rename it (monk abunden step vs fav soul leap for example)
or they could already start thinking about what effect each tier will have while the actual coding is done by those who know how to do it. and yet they will only bring 1 prestige line per 2 updates (so every 6-8 months) if we can believe them

that means something

Umm re-read my first post?

I want all this PvP stuff implemented AFTER all the enhancements and everything else is in.

Memory's first thing to go :3 haha ;D sorry I had to say it. I've been waiting to say that joke all darn day ;x

[quickbunnie]

I have a hypothetical question that I am curious about.

Say Turbine did have an infinite amount of resources. Do the people who disagree with the OP still feel that no resources should be put towards PvP?

3 qualifications to the above:
1) PvP changes do not affect PvE gameplay
2) Nothing can be earned in PvP beyond cosmetic/trophy style rewards. Certainly an e-peen stroker, but there is no character build advantage to PvP'ing.
3) The focus of DDO remains PvE gameplay

The impression that I get is that a decent number (up to perhaps a vast majority) of people feel that PvP does not belong in DDO. I guess I don't really understand this. The sentiment that PvP needs to be taken out of DDO seems odd to me. As with anything, it is only an option. If you hate it, there is a very simple solution of choosing not to participate.

[Visty]

I have a hypothetical question that I am curious about.

Say Turbine did have an infinite amount of resources. Do the people who disagree with the OP still feel that no resources should be put towards PvP?

3 qualifications to the above:
1) PvP changes do not affect PvE gameplay
2) Nothing can be earned in PvP beyond cosmetic/trophy style rewards. Certainly an e-peen stroker, but there is no character build advantage to PvP'ing.
3) The focus of DDO remains PvE gameplay

The impression that I get is that a decent number (up to perhaps a vast majority) of people feel that PvP does not belong in DDO. I guess I don't really understand this. The sentiment that PvP needs to be taken out of DDO seems odd to me. As with anything, it is only an option. If you hate it, there is a very simple solution of choosing not to participate.

if they would have infinite ressources, then i wouldnt mind

sadly (or luckily? ) they havent