Improving PvP

[Visty]

i have read your post so stop accusing me of things which you think i havent done

want the reasons for my answer?
1. pvp is not needed in this game
2. you award points, that will get abused
3. done

want pvp, go to a pvp game
want pve, stay here

[Angelus_dead]

Did either of you actually consider this at all or did you just say no the second you read "Improving PvP"?

To determine the suggestion is bad, you only have to read far enough to see "Arena Points". Assigning rewards of any value (even just bragging) will never make sense for a PVP game as drastically imbalanced as this one is.

Look at how comparatively close to perfectly-balanced World Of Warcraft PVP is, and yet how much trouble arises when there are just small differences.

Here's my standard response (going back years) to people who suggest improving PVP by adding rewards, rankings, tournaments or something:
Before suggesting making PVP results matter more, test PVP yourself to see how combat goes. That means arrange a little tournament giving something valuable (red scales) to the winner.

[Carelicoa]

So essentially, you want a system that will further your e-peen. No matter that, as others have said, it will be abused, nor that it will likely degrade the quality of the game. I say this because I have no doubt that a strong PvP system would bring in undesirable players, and before the s-storm starts, you all know exactly who and what I mean.

DDO is not a PvP game, and making it one will ultimately alienate a good part of the playerbase. I do not want to see it erode into the state that WoW has, a good part of which is the PvP imperative in that game. Lastly, going back to core elements, D&D is not, nor was ever really intended to be a PvP game. Although some traditions must be sacrificed in order to make a D&D-based MMO work, that should not be one of them.

[Akrilus]

NOT /SIGNED!!!

IF you want a PvP game then exit click Start > Control Panel > Add or Remove Programs and DELETE Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Edition

Once you do that then you are totally free to go find your way to World of Warcrap, Ultima, Eve Online

STOP trying to change our game to suit your PvP needs

See ya later Bubbye!

[Akrilus]

NOT /SIGNED!!!

IF you want a PvP....Accidental double post EDITED...Well might as well not the space go to waste,

forgot to add........

Oh and besides like we really need another set of gear and weapons that we need to Bind and Attune, Ritualize, Winterize, Guild Craft, Unravel Enhancements on, bring out Encredible Potential and Supressed Powers on and Epic out and lug around like Ineed another hole in my head. Next thing you know people will be showing up for The Shroud VoD Hound ToD wearing that gear thinking its a great excuse for ''being geared'' cause they was to lazy to grind for their Metalline weapons and Dragontouched armor

[Dandonk]

No. No. No.
See, DDO, and more generally D&D, is PvE. Not PvP. Don't take even more of the D&D out of our game, please. Please!

As for what to do when you hit level 20. Well, there are actually several things to pursue:

First, you can try and complete every quest on elite. This is a fairly large undertaking, and will take you a while.

Second, you can roll alts. This is my personal favourite. I am insance (besides an altholic), though, so this mau not be for you - but I find pleasure and fun in planning and playing new builds. I've deleted too many to bear thinking about, but I've had fun all along.

Third, you can grind epic (and normal raids if you still need stuff from those) to have the uberest equipment. Many people take this route.

Fourth, you can TR. When you find you have done as much as you find fun on the toon you have, why not TR him/her into something new - while keeping all the stuff you've grinded for? You could even go for Completionist and win DDO. This will take a very long time, so don't worry about running out of things to do. If you feel like, why not even TR 3 times in each class? This is obviously OCD behaviour, as well as more generally lunatic, but hey, if it rocks your boat (yes, I'm jealous, shush).

Fifth, you can troll the forums. This is a commonly accepted alternative to the above, or at least a break from the above.

So, you see - there are lots of things to do, and more quests and soon to come races and classes, too. We do NOT need PvP to fill any perceived void of things to do in endgame. We do NOT need dev time away from the things that matter to most of the players.
And we most certainly do not need more of the D&D taken out of DDO.

[Doomcrew]

1. Yea I'll admit that players will probably beg for better stuff, to counter that the best method is probably to state when implementing it that "any request for material rewards that give more than a cosmetic or fun effect will be ignored and removed." Worked in a few other games I tried out before loving this game :P

2. I don't see why. I've watched D&D PnP games where the DMs would basically split the players up and make them fight each other. D&D is supposed to be a versatile and evolving game, not some static PvE only thing that never improves or changes.

3. Unfortunately my main is level 7 :P I'm saying this on behalf of all the level 20s out there who complain in general chat that they've finished everything. I can see myself where they are eventually :/

thanks for the critique btw c:

Interesting post #3....
Not aware of many 20's that use gen-chat..
Your main is a level 7.... not half way to cap, and yet you propose a manner in which to improve end game play.

Maybe try to beat the existing game before, well, "improving" it.

Cheers

[Melchom]

the idea is great actually even it's not open world
they can bring the game a new look
after u level 20 there is nothing left except farming for epic items

[lazylaz]

Before I actually state my idea I'd like to make one thing clear first. If this gets implemented before ALL the prestige enhancements and races are in, balanced, and debugged the developers should remove them before I lead an angry mob to their hq :3
So to the point, this is a suggestion for AFTER we have the content and races (half-orc, druid, all prestiges, etc.) shoved and balanced into the game.

Well at least you have your priorties right

[Nospe]

So, a few questions.

1. All those people that are against PvP development do not play PvP?
2. If you do not play it then why would improving it be a problem? It does not affect you.
3. Is other people playing it somehow causing you problems?
4. If YOU don't drive do you petition Ford to stop developing car technology?
5. DDO is a PvP game - it has PvP in it - thus making it PvP (OK that was not a question)

For those who have the arguement of developer time / cost - none of us know how many resources Turbine has.

If Turbine have a team for Class / Race / Quest development and the developers choose to improve the PvP and it is updated before anything else this has nothing to do with the resources in the original team.

[picaisfun]

No. Unless I can ride my mount while chillin in my own domain with my familar and my gnome homies.

[Flyhalfer]

PvP is it's own reward. No need for a point system.

Arena PvP is dueling, not PvP. Create an outdoor zone with good terrain, Cerulean Hills is a good example, instead.

Make zone in place you at a random place in the zone (Zone camping is not fun) and no monsters in zone.


Simple. Then let folks who want to hunt players, hunt them.

PvP solution with no muss no fuss.

[fuzzy1guy]

First suggestion is...

DELETE PVP FROM DDO!


But i can't see them doing that... So at least....

Put all pvp arenas into their own chat channel. So the rest of us stop seeing the stupid epeen PWNT! leak into the marketplace.



Just don't touch any of the real game to cater to the pvp people. Plenty of games screwed up that way already.

And don't force any of the real game players to interact with pvp at all... ie pvp open zones. ect... that's about the fastest way to make people quit.


I still favor solution #1. Delete pvp from ddo entirely. 100% gone. Make it clear it's gone. And not comming back. Champion the fact that ddo is 100% PVP FREE! NEVER SEE ANOTHER GANKER AGAIN! COMBAT MONSTERS WITH A TEAM!

That way we stop getting these stupid threads every couple of days. And we stop getting the ijit epeen guys "MY TOON CAN BEAT UP YOUR TOON" in quest/raid partys.

Baring that... well insulate the pvp people away from everyone else.

[RequiemVampie]

It took me longer to re-read this than it took you two to post no.

Did either of you actually consider this at all or did you just say no the second you read "Improving PvP"?

Yes, to your quote.

No to this thread.

I barely got through half of your 'warning' before wanting to comment. I basically skimmed through it. It sounds too much like WoW. I have friends that play WoW and your ideas sound like to wanted to steal them that game.

As stated before in many, many, many posts/threads......DDO is NOT a game where PvP actually matters. Never has, never will. Its implemented in the game so that people can test their builds against actual players and not some quest. That pretty much it.

In other words, you may just want to give up on these arguments. It's not going to happen. Even if (and a BIG 'if') it does happen, its not like many of the players that don't give a rat's a$$. about PvP are going to flock to it.

Sorry, but this is a battle already counted as a lose just by the title alone.

/not signed.

[Folonius]

DDO is not a PvP game.

When DDO came out, it didn't have PvP implemented. It was a huge turn away for me, and I only played DDO for a few months, got extremly bored, and quit. DDO needs PvP.

I used to play in a PnP game where the DM would plant a PC "time bomb" where the PC was the exact opposite alignment of the rest of the party. The players had to try to figure out through the course of adventuring who's beliefs weren't real, and it usually happened in the middle of a hard fight. It was a great campaign, and why I think DDO should have had PvP when it came out, and why I think it should be improved on in DDO.

I have yet to explore much of the PvP options beyond brawling in a tavern, but there are mini game PvP matches already that exist. I skimmed through most of your post, but I'm pretty sure there is a capture the flag PvP match scenario, similar to your fort suggestion. I am 100% in support of some sort perk for doing PvP, whether it's a unique reward, item, buff, whatever. If it's an item, they absolutly need to be bound to account which would allow a player to use there best or favorite character to get loot and pass it to another character.

If anything new is created in regards to PvP, under no circumstances should PvE be nerfed to make PvP more balanced. Instead, nerf and balance PvP, and make PvE a completly seperate entity.

In short, /signed

[Visty]

1. All those people that are against PvP development do not play PvP?

yes

2. If you do not play it then why would improving it be a problem? It does not affect you.

it does affect us indirectly

3. Is other people playing it somehow causing you problems?

yes, indirectly

4. If YOU don't drive do you petition Ford to stop developing car technology?

thats a totally false placed analogy, building a ford doesnt hamper with me not driving

5. DDO is a PvP game - it has PvP in it - thus making it PvP (OK that was not a question)

wrong

[Folonius]

it does affect us indirectly

Please elaborate. If changes to PvP does not change anything in PvE, how does it affect you?

[rimble]

Pretty much agree with Visty again.

1. All those people that are against PvP development do not play PvP?

Correct, I don't PvP (at least not in this game).

2. If you do not play it then why would improving it be a problem? It does not affect you.

EVERY game that I've seen try to 'tack on' PvP has ruined other aspects of the game in favor of PvP. So you end up with a crappy PvP system, and then the PvE system suffers for it as well. This is how it indirectly affects us. Also, resources being put towards something I don't care about affects me, denies me the development of game systems that would benefit me.

3. Is other people playing it somehow causing you problems?

Other people playing it? No. Developers modifying abilities/powers so that they're "fair" in PvP, thus affecting their PvE implementation as well, can cause me significant problems.

4. If YOU don't drive do you petition Ford to stop developing car technology?

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

5. DDO is a PvP game - it has PvP in it - thus making it PvP (OK that was not a question)

Actually, the amount of PvP possible right now is just about perfect. It's enough for us to test characters and explore the game system, find out how things work, the DCs on things, durations, and other information that isn't readily available. That's all that is needed here.

For those who have the arguement of developer time / cost - none of us know how many resources Turbine has.

Agreed. That's why I'm careful to say I would prefer developer time not spent there, not dictate that it's a waste of time. The developers will decide if it's a waste of time for the game, but I already know it's a waste of time for me.

If Turbine have a team for Class / Race / Quest development and the developers choose to improve the PvP and it is updated before anything else this has nothing to do with the resources in the original team.

Nah, you know that's not true. The people working on PvP could work on any other part of the system. It's one thing to say art designers can't work on game systems, we know that...but someone coding/designing PvP would be better spent (in my opinion, do I really have to even say that) coding/designing something else.


PvP-based games can work. I've never seen a PvE-based game with PvP later tacked on turn out well. (WoW and it's bucketloads of cash perhaps the exception.)

[Folonius]

Other people playing it? No. Developers modifying abilities/powers so that they're "fair" in PvP, thus affecting their PvE implementation as well, can cause me significant problems.

I have played an MMO that kept the PvP game mechanics and PvE game mechanics seperate. Damage of one type of attack done in PvP is a different amount than PvE. You can change the mechanics on one without changing the other.

[Visty]

Please elaborate. If changes to PvP does not change anything in PvE, how does it affect you?

turbine has X workers in their staff
you need at least 1 of them to improve PVP
ergo they only have X-1 to work on PVE

simple rule of three