ranger/rogue advice needed

[~Tokii]

I searched the forums quite alot and really couldn't find a satisfying answer. My question is, is there any reason to take two levels of rogue when building a trapmonkey TWF ranger? I'm currently ranger12 rogue2 and was considering reincarnation to ranger13 rogue1 but didnt want to botch the whole thing up.
thanks

[toaf]

right now i am a 15 ranger 1 rouge 2 fighter. and i feel like i am a fine trapmonkey. 15+ googles for each rouge skill i use. seems to work good. i think i have had 1 controll box blow up on me in the last 3 months (forgot to buff myself, i was in a elite run

[updeharris]

i think you might consider taking the extra level to give you more skill points to max out UMD maybe ?

[Cinderbeard]

Just make sure you get to 18 ranger to get tempestIII. 2Rog, 1Rog/1Mnk, 1Rog/1Ftr are all solid choices to fill the other 2 levels.

The monk hybrid offers the most, with an extra feat and Wis bonus to AC while wearing robes. If you don't have monk avalable Ftr is nice too for the extra feat. If you really need the skill points you can consider another Rog lvl.

[karl_k0ch]

For rangers, 1 level of rogue is enough. The main benefit of a second rogue level on other builds is evasion, but this you get at ranger 9 (?) anyway. So there is really little reason in taking a second rog level, besides the aformentioned skill points.

But I think that a Ranger with Rogue splash can and should be planned in a way that (besides other skills) Search, DD and UMD are maxed. A second rog level would grant then only a one-time boost to skills which you don't want to max, like Open Locks or Jump. And since the 19th ranger level only offers +1 bab and some more spell slots, you can start to think if you want to splash another class, like Fighter or Monk for a feat and saves and possibly some AC or Barb for saves, short rages and faster movement.

[Dragavon]

As people say, ONLY take that 2nd rogue level if you are really desperate for skillpoints. If you have been able to max out Search, DD and UMD, then there is no reason to take another rogue level.

IF you do take that 2nd rogue level, take it as late as possible.

You do want 18 ranger levels, 19 doestn really give you much. As people say, one level monk, one level fighter, or even one level barbarian are good choices.

Even cleric or wizard can be good. Cleric for the ability to use all divine wands, wizard for the ability to use all arcane wands and an extra metamagic feat.

But a 2nd rogue level is behind all these imo.

[~Tokii]

thanks for the tips. i decided to take some fighter levels so i can get spring attack and tempest1 at level 15, and ill keep the 2 rogue levels to have evasion. i hope it works out so i dont have to reincarnate 3 times, turbine already has enough of my money LOL

[rage9]

Rangers get evasion at lvl 9 so you could keep your 2 lvls of rogue until you get your 9th lvl of ranger and then swap out that 1 lvl of rogue if you wish. Also the 2nd lvl of rogue will net you +1 dex from enhancements if that helps at all.

[Dragavon]

You get DEX enhancements from ranger levels too, and those locks out the rogue enhancement, you cannot take DEX enhancements from 2 classes at the same time.

[~Tokii]

i used the character planner and decided to either: (im currently 15th and in process or reincarnating)

rogue2 ranger8 fighter10 in that order
tempest1 / kensei1 / pretty good feats including spring attack / 34 dex

--or--

rogue2 ranger8 fighter6 ranger4 in that order
tempest2 / kensei1 / plus basically same feats and same 34 dex

should work pretty good with high enough rogue skills to do most stuff and pretty fun DPS also, one way to find out LOL
ill just stick with the 2 rogue levels for extra skills in this one even tho ill be getting evasion from the ranger part and since im reincarnating it will be an extra pain to grab a monk level. maybe on my next roll up ill try that.

[Sweyn]

My question is, is there any reason to take two levels of rogue when building a trapmonkey TWF ranger?

No

[Taanus]

OK, so if you're doing that TempII, Ken I thing with rogue splashed, thats 19 minimum levels. 12 in Ranger, 6 in fighter, and 1 rogue. That leaves you with a choice between the three for that last level. What are pros and cons between them?

[Dragavon]

I dare say go 13 ranger. You get a little more mana, and your buffs will last one more minute.

2 rogue gives you more skillpoints and very little else. -1 BAB, which is not a good thing.

7 fighter gives you more HP.

[~Tokii]

i think if i end up doing the tempest2, kensai1 build (which i probably will go for) i would just take 2 levels of rogue for the extra skills. fighter 6 satisfies the kensai1 requirement, and ranger 12 satisfies the tempest2 requirement. i cant find a real advantage of taking 13 levels of ranger over 12, or 7 levels of fighter instead of 6. maybe 5 extra hit points or so at the end.

the more i look at it the more i like the 12 level ranger deal over the 10 level fighter. with 10 fighter i get 2 extra feats, prolly would take weapon specialization and greater weapon focus but otherwise all the feats are the same. but with 12 ranger i get an extra favored enemy, better manyshot bonus, more spell points, more spells, probably faster running speed, hit points are pretty close both ways, and even more skill points. im paranoid about gimping my rogue abilities so i want to have good totals for all of them, not just disable and search. i want to be able to open locks too.

i was originally just going to reincarnate with 1 level of rogue and 19 levels of ranger since most people suggested that one rogue level was good enough, but after messing around with the fighter levels allowing me to get spring attack at level 15 i changed my mind. i could take a level of monk for a wisdom AC bonus but as it it im having to reincarnate 2 times to make this happen (level 15 now with rogue 2 and ranger 13), if i took a monk level i think i would have to reincarnate a third time and i really dont want to do that.

Dragavon, i just saw your mention of -1BAB, hmm. didnt think of that. great.... now i have changed my mind again, thanks! LOL

[Taanus]

You also don't have to have it set in stone. You have 19 minimum levels that you know the requirements for. When you level from 19 to 20, you can look at your character and decide where the help is needed. Problems with traps? Take the last level in Rogue. Trouble staying alive? Take it in Fighter. But I do agree that the last level as Ranger is probably the most generically useful choice of the three, though.

[Dragavon]

Dragavon, i just saw your mention of -1BAB, hmm. didnt think of that. great.... now i have changed my mind again, thanks! LOL

You are welcome, always happy to help

I could be wrong though, I did not check the BAB progression for rogues and you might get +1 BAB on the 2nd rogue level

[unbongwah]

My question is, is there any reason to take two levels of rogue when building a trapmonkey TWF ranger?

Extra skill pts and possibly getting Evasion earlier than ranger 9, depending on when you take it.

2 rogue gives you more skillpoints and very little else. -1 BAB, which is not a good thing.

Rogue 1 is what costs a pt of BAB; rogue 2 gets +1 BAB. So that's not an issue.

OP: I think rogue 2 / ranger 12 / ftr 6 is a reasonable combo; ranger 13 or ftr 7 gets you nothing worth the price of LR +1, IMHO.