Any love for the dex Rogue?

[Samadhi]

(i don't know that I consider an AC build without armor a real tank build. you get helpless and you lose ALL your AC right?

Give me an example of what would make me helpless / make this an issue in a main-tank scenario.

and you don't have the hps to survive that as a rogue probably?).

497 HP unbuffed on a high AC build has always been plenty. Obviously a 13 rogue is not exactly a pure rogue; but even my TierIII lvl 19 non-AC build will be breaking 500 whenever I bother to cap it.

[Razcar]

Also, I don't ever think I've seen an AC build (Rogue or non-Rogue) not wearing armor.

About the highest AC reachable in DDO requires being a Dex build with monk-splash, wearing the Icy Raiment outfit. So no armor as such (well, an item that gives +8 armor bonus is required).

(i don't know that I consider an AC build without armor a real tank build. you get helpless and you lose ALL your AC right? and you don't have the hps to survive that as a rogue probably?).

It doesn't work like that in DDO. No AC builds, whether wearing physical armor or not, get their high AC from their armor bonus only, or Dex bonus only. Rather it's many small bonuses adding up, such as Dex, Combat Expertise +5, Protection +5, Dodge from many sources, Shield bonus +4 (or higher if wearing an actual shield and not just the spell), different buffs, +4 Insight from Greensteel etc. And then again, you almost never get "helpless" in DDO in higher levels, there's abilties/buffs to protect against that state.

As for HP, as long as you can survive a failed save on a Disintegrate (so at least around 450-500 HP) and have a high AC you can tank most stuff. Just like with AC, HP is built by many more sources than just your class hit die, and most of those sources are available for rogues as well.

[Dragavon]

I have made a DEX based finesse version of my build for a 34 pointer:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=14

[unbongwah]

Also, I don't ever think I've seen an AC build (Rogue or non-Rogue) not wearing armor.

Batman 9.4 not only doesn't wear armor (eventually), it hits pretty high AC without a monk splash.

[JustWinBaby]

Batman 9.4 not only doesn't wear armor (eventually), it hits pretty high AC without a monk splash.

Thanks for correcting me everyone

Even then - I'd rather go Str based than Dex based.

[Irinis]

So does dex work better for solo because it's higher AC? Or does it only work if you can grind for the AC gear stuffs?

Probably will be playing solo a lot, or needing to carry pugs. That's why I want the ranger levels for early wand use before UMD.

Will post a potential build in a bit.

[JustWinBaby]

So does dex work better for solo because it's higher AC? Or does it only work if you can grind for the AC gear stuffs?

Probably will be playing solo a lot, or needing to carry pugs. That's why I want the ranger levels for early wand use before UMD.

Will post a potential build in a bit.

The higher Attack Bonus and higher AC will probably help you at lower levels. Once you get 8+ I would say it will stop mattering.

[Irinis]

Ehh, not worried about levels below 8 anyway. They go by fast enough.

[JustWinBaby]

Ehh, not worried about levels below 8 anyway. They go by fast enough.

I agree.

Also, you can see the DPS difference between Str based and Dex based, as soon as level 1

[ReinoSilverblade]

Hey guys, could you take a look at my character here and tell me what you think. I was thinking of maybe go for that reincarnation thing and change a few stats for maxing rogue-specific skills, probably reducing STR as I have weapon finesse, and usually tend to backstab so I rely mostly on those extra d6s for damage. Also any advice on equipment? I haven't played for a couple months now, so I'm a little out of the loop :\
http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/crimnee

Thanks

[Dragavon]

Hey guys, could you take a look at my character here and tell me what you think. I was thinking of maybe go for that reincarnation thing and change a few stats for maxing rogue-specific skills, probably reducing STR as I have weapon finesse, and usually tend to backstab so I rely mostly on those extra d6s for damage. Also any advice on equipment? I haven't played for a couple months now, so I'm a little out of the loop :\
http://my.ddo.com/character/khyber/crimnee

Thanks

Hard to tell just from looking at that.

I do want to say one thing though: Do not reduce your STR too much even if you have a finesse build. Every melee character should have enough STR to take the Power Attack feat, and take it. There is no excuse to not have it on any char you fight with. Only on pure spellcaster builds can you drop PA. So you need 13 base STR including any tomes.

[ReinoSilverblade]

hmmm, interesting. okay, I'll have to rethink everything now, thanks for that info

[Dex800]

The higher Attack Bonus and higher AC will probably help you at lower levels. Once you get 8+ I would say it will stop mattering.

http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/balliztik/
At lvl 16 and I can still solo any quest without getting hit, 90% of hits are grazing. Self buffed to 75 Ac

[JustWinBaby]

http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/balliztik/
At lvl 16 and I can still solo any quest without getting hit, 90% of hits are grazing. Self buffed to 75 Ac

If you've been reading the rest of my posts here, you would understand

If you're going for an AC build, which you are and have, then finesse is fine.

Unless you're trying to max your AC, say 50 AC at level 16 instead of 75....it isn't going to matter one bit if its 20 or 50 by that time.

Most Rogues don't try to max their AC. Which is why I say go Str instead. You'll kill 'em faster so AC don't matter

That is of course...you're solo'ing

[Dex800]

not trying to argue, but 50 ac would barley survive GH, forget elite

[JustWinBaby]

not trying to argue, but 50 ac would barley survive GH, forget elite

That is my point exactly.

[jurzey]

from what i am seeing, if you dont meet the minimum with ac there is no point, it does nothing.

something about that just seems wrong. i have a pure hl assasin and have been working on keeping my ac maxed. Does it literally do nothing if it is not at the level the mobs are hitting? i'm sure i could find better uses for those gear slots.

also, on that same note, i am weilding rapiers and crafting my gs items since i went dex/finesse... i see most people tend to go khopesh when they build for strength. if i tr into strength am i going to want to ditch my fancy new gs rapiers?

[JustWinBaby]

from what i am seeing, if you dont meet the minimum with ac there is no point, it does nothing.

something about that just seems wrong. i have a pure hl assasin and have been working on keeping my ac maxed. Does it literally do nothing if it is not at the level the mobs are hitting? i'm sure i could find better uses for those gear slots.

Correct. Once you get to a certain point, the mobs' attack bonus is going to be high enough it doesn't matter if your AC is a 20 or a 50, they will hit you by even rolling a 2.

[JustWinBaby]

also, on that same note, i am weilding rapiers and crafting my gs items since i went dex/finesse... i see most people tend to go khopesh when they build for strength. if i tr into strength am i going to want to ditch my fancy new gs rapiers?

You don't need to, but you would do more damage with the Khopeshes than with the Rapiers.

[jurzey]

Correct. Once you get to a certain point, the mobs' attack bonus is going to be high enough it doesn't matter if your AC is a 20 or a 50, they will hit you by even rolling a 2.

so really i need to be above their attack bonus for it to make a difference.

that way for each point of ac above their attack bonus i should have 1/20th of a chance to negate the damage.

otherwise it just doesn't matter what ac i have.

How does the mob's attack bonus compare at the level of the quest? Should i expect that the attack bonus is the same as the quest level on average or is their attack bonus twice the level? is there any simple way for determining what is enoughfor the average trash mobs?