Any love for the dex Rogue?

[Irinis]

Considering a Rogue TR on one of my characters. It would be a life on the way to another life, so probably won't have the best equipment ever or use any tomes higher than +2. So, no greensteel radII/minII... but Tharne's goggles already and hopefully bracers before TR.

What I've got, are a few good rapiers and shortswords. Nothing spectacular. Is it ok to go str-based and use rapiers and shortswords anyway, or am I looking at rolling a dex-based finesse Rogue to synergize better with what I've got so far?

Would probably go Drow (or maybe Halfling), with decent constitution due to the extra TR build points.

Any advice expert Rogues can point me to would be lovely. Thanks in advance!

[Razcar]

Rapiers and shortswords work fine on a Str rogue. You'll get a little less DPS than khopesh but will save a feat for some additional goodies, such as CE, extra toughness, Quick Draw, SF:UMD etc. If you go Halfling you could even cram in the Jorasco Dragonmarks with a few levels of monk and/or fighter (for extra feats). To get Heal at level 9 is very nice

[Dragavon]

There are absolutely no reasons why you should not focus on STR on a rogue using rapiers.

Feel free to draw some inspiration here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=268588

Having said that, I think a DEX-based/finesse rogue with enough strenght for PA feat would be awesome

And high DEX rogues are actually easier to play than STR based ones imo

[Irinis]

Razcar, ty.

Dragavon, thanks for the link. I was poking about a bit and saw one of Anthios88's builds that was WF with a similar level breakdown. So now I'm thinking 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 fighter. Like you, not sure if Tempest I is worth it since the nerfs.

[unbongwah]

DEX-based, particularly on a halfling or elf, lets you max out your to-hit and AC (though it's debatable whether a pure rogue can hit high enough AC to make it worthwhile); STR-based saves you a feat and ups your DPS, particularly against 100% fort enemies. To be honest, unless you're really trying to minmax your rogue, I think it's as much about personal preference as anything else; either way you want to boost your STR & DEX as high as you can with items etc., IMHO. Just don't dump-stat STR on a DEX build: you want enough to be able to take Power Attack, at least.

[Irinis]

Yeah don't care for trying to get the gear together for AC. To-hit should be ok with 16 starting STR, though the lack of a TOD ring will hurt a little there, 29 str at cap. Probably won't take the character through 20 raid completions or epics once at cap though, just trying to understand Rogues enough to do decently up to cap.

So, STR it is. Rapier/shortsword it is. Probably 13/6/1 Rogue/Ranger/Fighter for the wand use. Quite probably Drow.

Is it worth getting sneak attack training IV or should I only go to II then spread action points around to get a couple of the Ranger favored enemy enhancements?

[Ethiel]

if you need help with it let me know irnis. I have a heavy pick specced str based squishy and a qs big stick *modified to the master race* also STR based.

Im by far not the best rogue player but I can mess with str builds like crazy

[Samadhi]

Razcar, ty.

Dragavon, thanks for the link. I was poking about a bit and saw one of Anthios88's builds that was WF with a similar level breakdown. So now I'm thinking 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 fighter. Like you, not sure if Tempest I is worth it since the nerfs.

Str based is perfectly fine even if you are using rapiers, and encouraged if you are prioritizing DPS.

I too doubt the value of spending that much effort for tempest I. Personally, if you were prioritizing DPS, I would go pure rogue. An extra 7d6 SA damage is what it is.

If you wanted a more defensive build, I made a 13 Acrobat / 6 Stalwart / 1 Monk that can maintank Horoth when needed, and still do as much damage as a TWF-ing dex-rapier rogue will typically do, so that is another idea to toss around if you don't mind deeper multiclassing.

[Junts]

Str based is perfectly fine even if you are using rapiers, and encouraged if you are prioritizing DPS.

I too doubt the value of spending that much effort for tempest I. Personally, if you were prioritizing DPS, I would go pure rogue. An extra 7d6 SA damage is what it is.

If you wanted a more defensive build, I made a 13 Acrobat / 6 Stalwart / 1 Monk that can maintank Horoth when needed, and still do as much damage as a TWF-ing dex-rapier rogue will typically do, so that is another idea to toss around if you don't mind deeper multiclassing.

new capstone sure is nuts, isnt it?

[JustWinBaby]

I don't like Dex based. You're giving up Damage Bonus for Attack Bonus imo.

Attack Bonus doesn't matter.

You're either taking Weapon Finesse or Khopesh Feat, so they both "need" a feat. You could actually go without the Khopesh feat at higher levels and deal with the -4 Attack Penalty without any problems.

I just feel that there isn't anything beneficial in taking a Dex based Rogue over a Str based one. Not a single thing.

[Samadhi]

new capstone sure is nuts, isnt it?

Yeah a tad overboard - but rogues get so much hate in general I suppose it could be considered justified.

[Samadhi]

I just feel that there isn't anything beneficial in taking a Dex based Rogue over a Str based one. Not a single thing.

AC. But yes, I do agree with you for the most part. Unless you are building your toon to solo 90% of the time, or to maintank raidbosses, then 99% of builds (not just rogues but any melee) should most definitely be Str based not Dex based, and to do otherwise is often foolish.

Hell I recently LR'd my ranger into an AA for amusement, and he's still Str based.

[Dragavon]

I don't like Dex based. You're giving up Damage Bonus for Attack Bonus imo.

Attack Bonus doesn't matter.

You're either taking Weapon Finesse or Khopesh Feat, so they both "need" a feat. You could actually go without the Khopesh feat at higher levels and deal with the -4 Attack Penalty without any problems.

I just feel that there isn't anything beneficial in taking a Dex based Rogue over a Str based one. Not a single thing.

I quite like DEX based

I had 4 lvl 20 rogue builds on Keeper, and a couple of them can take aggro off almost anyone, and they are quite tricky to play. When I went all out agressive I could get my ass handed to me faster than I could hit diplomacy

A finesse based rogue with high DEX and enough STR to take PA is my favourite, it is a lot easier to control how much aggro you pull

[JustWinBaby]

AC.

AC won't matter past level 10-12 unless you're going for max AC.

Same with Reflex Save - it's already high enough from just being a Rogue. Add Evasion and Improved Evasion, and what does it matter?

[JustWinBaby]

I quite like DEX based

I had 4 lvl 20 rogue builds on Keeper, and a couple of them can take aggro off almost anyone, and they are quite tricky to play. When I went all out agressive I could get my ass handed to me faster than I could hit diplomacy

A finesse based rogue with high DEX and enough STR to take PA is my favourite, it is a lot easier to control how much aggro you pull

Aggro doesn't matter if you can kill them quickly

I had 4 lvl 20 rogue builds on Keeper, and a couple of them can take aggro off almost anyone

I always was able to take aggro off the Fighters/Casters. Even with 30% Subtle backstabbing

[Samadhi]

AC won't matter past level 10-12 unless you're going for max AC.

Same with Reflex Save - it's already high enough from just being a Rogue. Add Evasion and Improved Evasion, and what does it matter?

Did you read my entire post? Yes I know I included a complex sentence in the three listed; but I specifically said that unless you were going for main-tank quality AC or soloing a lot, that I agreed with you.... /tryagain.

[JustWinBaby]

Did you read my entire post? Yes I know I included a complex sentence in the three listed; but I specifically said that unless you were going for main-tank quality AC or soloing a lot, that I agreed with you.... /tryagain.

Sorry.

I didn't put 2 and 2 together correctly. I came up with 5.

I didn't realize that maintank or solo = AC build.

Sorry for the confusion

[Samadhi]

Sorry.

I didn't put 2 and 2 together correctly. I came up with 5.

I didn't realize that maintank or solo = AC build.

Sorry for the confusion

I routinely come up with 9 for some reason. No worries!

[neclon]

I have a dex rogue. If I had it to do over again he'd be str-based.

Str-based elf with rapiers or dwarf with axes does save you a feat which is nice. And since you will probably get 17 dex eventually all you need is some enhancements and a good dex item and you can probably get as high AC as you can while wearing armor... (i don't know that I consider an AC build without armor a real tank build. you get helpless and you lose ALL your AC right? and you don't have the hps to survive that as a rogue probably?).

[JustWinBaby]

I have a dex rogue. If I had it to do over again he'd be str-based.

Str-based elf with rapiers or dwarf with axes does save you a feat which is nice. And since you will probably get 17 dex eventually all you need is some enhancements and a good dex item and you can probably get as high AC as you can while wearing armor... (i don't know that I consider an AC build without armor a real tank build. you get helpless and you lose ALL your AC right? and you don't have the hps to survive that as a rogue probably?).

I always like Halflings over Humans/Elves/Dwarfs.

Also, I don't ever think I've seen an AC build (Rogue or non-Rogue) not wearing armor. Although I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time