Wiz5 for Displacement

[erikbozelie]

Go for the dragonmark, dragonmarks is like casting an spell based on your race level... not class level...
so casting it at level 20 will take 2 min every cast.... 4 min if you have extent (somehow).

elves also gets nice racial enhancements on 2w or 2h weapons.

[Thrudh]

Gear isn't going to prevent you from dying when you're grouping with bad players. Find better people to game with.

Being self-sufficient does keep me from dying when I group with bad players...

I will agree that multiple specialized builds are the optimal party. But I enjoy playing self-sufficient characters than can handle a sub-optimal party.

We finished that Sins anyway, and I never died... I raised the cleric once... It wasn't pretty... But I take satisfaction in the fact that I helped pulled us through.

People who do not PUG need to be careful when giving advice to people who do PUG. They should not say, "Oh you don't need this or that" without qualifying their remarks with "if you're in an elite guild like mine"

[Thrudh]

Go for the dragonmark, dragonmarks is like casting an spell based on your race level... not class level...
so casting it at level 20 will take 2 min every cast.... 4 min if you have extent (somehow).

elves also gets nice racial enhancements on 2w or 2h weapons.

Yes, I have a elf Arcane Archer who hasn't run the Shroud yet, and the displacement dragonmarks are very useful for him.

[Veriok]

A little oftopic, but still about displacement and fighters:
My main currently is a 28 point build human level 12 fighter/8 bard - focusing on falchion combat - and im extremly pleased with her.

Though, the bards levels did spread a little (usually taking it one every two of fighter), but even at low level the usage of cure wands is worth a lot.

Dmg dealing:
The dps seems pretty stable too: brandishing my +4 frost falchion of pure good yelds results of around 55-130 dmg (got a bloodstone though, its a killer with 30% chance to crit), and with glancing blows hitting for around 20-24 dmg (3 out of 4 attacks got them) this add considerably to my overall dps. To-hit bonus seems hovering around +30(while on power attack), bonus dmg is highly depending on buffs but usually sitting at +36 (no buffs), +43(raged and with a song), +49(with power surge on). More if there's a 'proper' bard in a party, though my songs still beat songs from pure lv 20 spellsingers sometimes.

UMD:
Of course the build main point is versality, so carrying a bit of heal (with +20% racial healing amp, and +20% healing amp from DT light armor, plus a wand/scroll usage 3 this yelds a nice selfheal for over 250 hps), raise dead and fireshield scrolls is a no brainer. Sadly 12 starting charisma is a bit low, and not having GH is a bit of pain though - farming for planear grid, having delaras Golden Cartouche or getting a head of good fortune from reaver's bane should rise the chances considerably from mine 65% to no-fail use. 32 point builds could up the starting charisma to 16 instead of con, for an extra +10%.

Spells:
Spells are somewhat limited, as I totally discarded any healing enh and healing spells - its just no worth for a character that hovers around 400-600 sp (depending on SP items) - but having acces to extended haste and displacement (1:36 sec) may seems a bit short, but considering that most of your SP is for selfbuffing (that + blur/heroism/rage/good hope) its more then plently to run displaced/hasted for all except longest quests without much rest shrines.

AC:
Ac is nonexistant. There is no way to rise it up on this str focused THF build.

AP:
My AP are spend very thin though, mostly in five groups: toughness enhancements, wand/scrolls usage, kensai PrE, warchanter PrE (with max attack and dmg bonus from songs - it sits at not-that-bad +5 to hit, +6 to dmg, compared to +8/+9 of pure warchanter) and full fighter/racial strenght. There are some putted in human imp. recovery II though, for better selfhealing with CC wands and heal scrolls.

Str:
Self raged, with +1 str tome eaten im having 33 str. When I hit power surge though (and I hit it often, as its way better then +2 to hit from fighter attack boost - yelds +4 to hit and +6 to dmg, and last three times as long) i hit 41 str (can keep it for 7 minutes per rest ).

HP:
Hp is a little of squishy side, but still not that bad. Self-raged yelds 460(440 base), without any greensteel hp items. With a 32 build this could be upped up a bit.

Farming:
Still farming ingredients for my first greensteel falchion - even without it im pleased with the results so far.

As a end note: I dont see my build as a gimp, nor do I see it as a pimp. Its fun to level up, fun to raid build that can contribute dps with a bit of support. With some possibilities for solo play and plently of feat options. For example I took f: UMD and force of personality - just because had no idea what else could I take.

If anyone is interested, I can post the detailed build after im back from work. Cheers.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Well, I love mine.

But I went Rgr and have a decent amount of SP. (816) and still run out of SP too fast. Something to consider.


But Displacement on tap is awesome at end game.

But there are other ways to get it. And it is a long five levels as you are taking those Wiz levels to get it.

Once again though.. I love mine. He is great at end game.

[Tanlaus]

I've been running something similar with great success, but he is only in is mid teens, so things may change by the endgame.

I was also originally planning on goign 5 wiz but after reading through builds on the multiclass forums, I've decided to go 12 ftr/8 wiz for the extra spells and spell points. Firewall is still great, especially with the fire enhancements and a few pots of greater inferno even if it doesn measure up to a fully wizzy or sorc. Haste is haste, and 8 levels of wiz will give you plenty of it, especially with extend. Being able to throw up your own stoneskin is nice too. Also, displacement stacks with blur which is another big plus.

That build will also give you kenasi 2, which means you can more or less hold your own in the DPS department.

The difference between 5 wiz and 8 wiz is one bab and 18 hit points. And you still have enough to maximize your number of attacks. For me the trade off is worth it.

Toughness is a must along with all of the racial and fighter toughness enhancements you can take.

On a technical note, leveling is not as painful as it might seem. Spells like hypontism and web regualrly work even in the early teens, and while CC seems to be under appreciated lately (ask any bard you run with) it really can change the outcome of a fight pretty drastically.

On a social note, any mix of fighter and wiz (besides maybe one level for WFs to heal themselves) is often rejected outright by group leaders. I haven't found this toon underpowered at all, but the perception of gimpiness is often just as bad as gimpiness itself.

[Nezichiend]

Displacement is huge. It really helps any melee.

/snip

Well I could get 5 wizard lvls and do about 70% of the dps of a pure and get hit 50% less, or I could easily get UMD and do blur wands which are 20% and do 100% dps.
Killing stuff faster means less hits taken. Taking longer to kill something to decrease the amount of hits you take is silly, since you take less hits when you kill stuff faster.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Well I could get 5 wizard lvls and do about 70% of the dps of a pure and get hit 50% less, or I could easily get UMD and do blur wands which are 20% and do 100% dps.
Killing stuff faster means less hits taken. Taking longer to kill something to decrease the amount of hits you take is silly, since you take less hits when you kill stuff faster.

Using your numbers, the Wiz 5 kills 30% slower, but only gets hit 50% of the time. For a 20% reduction in damage taken.

Add Blur to the non-Wiz and they break even.

[Nezichiend]

Using your numbers, the Wiz 5 kills 30% slower, but only gets hit 50% of the time. For a 20% reduction in damage taken.

Add Blur to the non-Wiz and they break even.

But you have to put completion time into the equation. I personally would prefer to have a build that takes a fair amount of damage and does a lot of dps versus something that takes NO damage at all but does 1 dmg a swing. It would take me less time to finish and it would take him a year. And my example was just when there was no one to displace you, in groups the pure destroys the wiz 5, since the 5 wiz lvls are useless if someone else displaces you.

[Gnorbert]

Smoke II cloak... displacement clickies for the big fights and permanent blur plus 45HP to boot... if you want to spend 24 larges on it, I think it's worth it.

[DrNuegebauer]

If you really want a viable melee who can cast, try more wizard.

12 wizard
6 ranger or fighter
2 monk or rogue

Or 12 sorc, 6 paladin, 2 monk can work too.

WF for those builds of course so that you can tag your quickened reconstructs.

[LordPiglet]

Displacement is huge. It really helps any melee.

I had a ranger/wizard once... Self-cast displacement, haste, and rage (if you go 6 levels of wizard), plus blur, shield, jump, exp retreat... all very nice...

However, in the long run, you can make displacement and haste clickables from the Shroud (although for a new player, this will be a long time away)

You can find a jump clickable in Amrath (again, long time away, we're talking 18th level quests)... Striding boots make exp retreat pointless, and if you go Tempest or get a lot of UMD to use Shield wands, you don't need the shield spell.

So, in the long run, a fighter/wizard is kind of pointless. This is Turbine's fault. They have given us all the decent low-level wizard buffs in item form, so the iconic fighter/wizard is no longer a worthwhile build in DDO.

I would echo some of the others, and suggest making a elf fighter... You have plenty of feats to afford 2 levels of elf dragonmarks, and the 2nd one gives you displacement, which again, helps a LOT for a melee to avoid damage. Don't dump CON tho! Put at least 6 and probably 10 build points into CON. It will be low anyway as an elf.

You cannot count on party casters to keep you displaced... We can barely count of party casters to keep us hasted anymore, but even in the "good ol' days", only a few casters bothered to keep displacement up on the melees most of the time.

If you don't mind spending a little cash, you could play with a fighter/wizard if you want and re-incarnate later if it doesn't work out, or after you get all those items...

I had a LOT of fun with my ranger/wizard back in the day.

My exploiter uses shield wands when I'm in a quest that will have a lot of magic missles flying about.