Human Barbarian AC

[Thrudh]

Ok, as you said, "ADD".
So you must keep:
- high dps
- high hp
and ADD
- useful AC.

So max STR, max CON, rest in DEX. Power Attack and enhancements, Power Rage (it lowers AC), frenzy berserk (so you need Cleave), 3xITHF, Toughness. DPS sets from ToD.

Can you explain WHERE can you fit stat and items to ADD ac ?

Items can be swapped... You can take off DPS items and put on AC items. Rage can be dismissed. Splash 2 levels of fighter for the AC feats.

[Thrudh]

Ty for the feedback, but i like AC as it is. As said before this isn't my build, only using this to speak about AC in Barbarian.
I prefer 1 Caster level to get also Expeditious Retreat, can use it at any moment in an emergency with Sprint Boost and an Invisibility potion.

Although I'm defending the idea of AC on a barbarian and have one myself, I do not agree with the OPs version... High Dex is not the answer...

A barbarian needs max STR, a high CON and Frenzied Berzerker III... After that, everything else is negotiable.

I think 1 level of wizard is a waste here... Get some striding boots or haste potions... Heck, the sprint boost alone is usually all you need to run away.

[Thrudh]

Ac is a min or max stat. Sorry to break it to ya. If you dont fit into the d20 range that ac needs to be helpfully, its absolutely worthless.

Yes, but a barbarian CAN get into that d20 AC range... I'm talking about normal/hard raids here though, not elite and epic runs...

Maybe we're just looking at two different playstyles? I'm still running VoD on normal and hard to get my Tharne's... You may only be doing elite and epic. Our definitions of "worthless" may be very different

Yes its all about enjoyable game play. And I guarantee most people will not enjoy playing with this build. If the OP wants to build it, thats fine, but for you to sit here and tell him its viable, is wrong. Its not anywhere close to viable.

The OP's build may not be viable... A high DPS barbarian who can switch to worthwhile AC IS possible though.

Anyone who thinks that 20/30 second boost count as primary stats (ie ac) hasnt played ddo very long and hasnt played at end game.

The Improved Uncanny Dodge boost is probably the best one in the game since you can keep it running continously... 2:30 minutes is a decent amount of time, and can be factored into AC equations...

When I'm intimitanking in VoD, I save that boost for the second wave of orthans... It lasts long enough so the clerics can heal the orthan beaters and not worry about me.

[Quikster]

It would be nice for once to see a screenshot instead of peeps throwing numbers out there they make up.

I looked at your toons you in no way have 6 or 7 (YOU DONT KNOW??) toons that reach 80 + AC

Please show a quick screen shot of one Toon showing the 100 AC, Ya Did not think so, throwing numbers in the forums is quite differant than doing it.

My 2 cents

Trixxie of thelanis

Oh BTW in an earlier post in this thread you said boosts and temp buffs do not count as AC so I am wondering if you are Quoting that in your phoney Paper AC as well. Hmmmm

I said boosts, nothing about buffs.

The point of calling his numbers trixxie numbers was just that. Most of the buffs/boosts he lists are not realistic to have in a quest, just as many of your screenies your so famous for. Its not a knock against you. You like to make screenies of what your alts can do max numbers wise. Cool. knock yourself out.

As far as my alts, get a life. Does myddo show all three of my accts that arent linked to this forum user name? No did think so. Does myddo show alts ive deleted? No didnt think so.

Ive had 2 clonks that could buff to over 80. Both have been deleted.

My fighter in my sig can buff to over 100. sorry no screenies, I dont need to post screenies to prove it to you, thats not high up on my priority list.

Before that fighter was a fighter he was a 14/6 rogue/ranger who could buff into the high 80's

Paly on that acct can also hit the low 80's buffed.

Had a dwarven fighter on that acct that could hit 81 at 16.

On another account I have a 12/6/2 wfd that could hit 81 hes tr'd into a lv 10 monk currently.

Same acct, 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk hit high 80's buffed, hes currently tr'd into a ranger, lvl 3.


I think thats all, count em up.


I can show a screenie of my self buffed twf if you like. Or you can look at my build breakdown to see how its done.

Self buffed twf ac is 77 i believe, might be 76.

Add

5 for a shield.
1 ranger bark
4 bard song
6 paly aura
3 halfling buff
5 blocking
______________

think thats 100. really not that hard to do man, just because I dont post a screenie of it doesnt mean i cant do it.

Go troll somewhere else with your, "I myddo'd you and youre lying." Thats three times you tried to pull that **** on me, and its just as wrong as it was the first time.


Edit:: Ok my bad, self buffed twf is 78, no boosts. So 83 with a shield, 88 blocking. 92 with bard sont, 95 with halfling, 101 with paly, 102 with ranger bark. Sustainable for 5 minutes with a halfling. 99 with no halfling.

[Quikster]

Yes, but a barbarian CAN get into that d20 AC range... I'm talking about normal/hard raids here though, not elite and epic runs...

Maybe we're just looking at two different playstyles? I'm still running VoD on normal and hard to get my Tharne's... You may only be doing elite and epic. Our definitions of "worthless" may be very different



The OP's build may not be viable... A high DPS barbarian who can switch to worthwhile AC IS possible though.



The Improved Uncanny Dodge boost is probably the best one in the game since you can keep it running continously... 2:30 minutes is a decent amount of time, and can be factored into AC equations...

When I'm intimitanking in VoD, I save that boost for the second wave of orthans... It lasts long enough so the clerics can heal the orthan beaters and not worry about me.

For a raid that can be done in 7 minutes, i guess less than half of it he could have a decent ac, yes i agree. But while he has that decent ac, his dps is ****.

I dont think I ever said that barbs cant have ac, I said that his build sucked.

[Visty]

, I said that his build sucked.

you should edit that part out, might get you infractions
(if someone in charge even reads this thread that far that is)

[Quikster]

you should edit that part out, might get you infractions
(if someone in charge even reads this thread that far that is)

Too late now that you quoted it, but i guess you figured that out already eh?

[Visty]

Too late now that you quoted it, but i guess you figured that out already eh?

tell me when you edit it and ill change the quote

and jep

[richieelias27]

I said boosts, nothing about buffs.

... snipped in the interest of not having an uberlong quote in my post ...

think thats 100. really not that hard to do man, just because I dont post a screenie of it doesnt mean i cant do it.

Go troll somewhere else with your, "I myddo'd you and youre lying." Thats three times you tried to pull that **** on me, and its just as wrong as it was the first time.

Ah yes, but what were your "total" stats?

[Quikster]

you should edit that part out, might get you infractions
(if someone in charge even reads this thread that far that is)

Technically this is what i said:

How about your ac will be to low to be effective, and your dps will suck.

[Visty]

Technically this is what i said:

well, then youre on the safe side

[Thrudh]

For a raid that can be done in 7 minutes, i guess less than half of it he could have a decent ac, yes i agree.

On normal or hard, you can get the AC high enough to matter, even without the boost... And my specific example was a good one... In VoD, not much is going on most the raid. It's only near the end when the second wave of orthans come in (along with devils) that things get a little hectic... Improved Uncanny Dodge is an excellent boost during that time.

Don't generalize everything. It's like people who say that Enlarge is a waste of a feat, because most of the time, it is. But there are places where it is very useful.

Boosts are situationally useful... There ARE moments where things are just a little bit more dangerous, and a 20 or 30 second boost can make a difference. I usually use a vorpal in Hound, because I can get my AC high enough to barely get hit, and I kill about as fast as when I DPS the renderers. There have been times when multiple renderers got into the middle, things got a little crazy and I intimidated them off of the clerics or casters, and used a boost to stabilize the situation... By the time the boost wore off, the situation was under control. Sometimes 30 seconds is all you need.

But while he has that decent ac, his dps is ****.

Absolutely. A barbarian can't achieve decent AC without losing a LOT of DPS.

I dont think I ever said that barbs cant have ac, I said that his build sucked.

Ah, then we're in agreement on both counts!

[SlogUK]

It's an interesting experiment...

I think I know where it's coming from - the issue when you play a barb a lot is "How can I justify taking so much of the cleric's mana?" I worried about that constantly when I was new to the game - my first and only toon for two years was Slog.

I just don't think that AC is the answer. If you want to be effective, get your DPS Maxed and your DR. Then look for things like jerky and jungle cloaks, and make a ton of guards - including perhaps a conc opp guard for the hps and the extra will save... I haven't done that but it might be an option for you. You want to be mitigating and taking advantage of the damage that you take. Also bump up your healing potential and if you're really worried about it dig out a collection of good bodyfeeders with a high crit range - like a falchion, and use them on the right mobs. Although nothing beats a crafted weapon really - MIN2 gaxe and triple pos maul is nice as you can put 30% healing amp on tier 3 - since it only crits on a 20 and you'll mostly be using it for undead, the damage on blast aint worth it compared to the healing. But that's just my opinion.

AC on a barb is a losing battle really especially clicky dependent - if you've got madstone boots it's pretty much totally pointless, and even if you don't you can't clicky with rage, and even if you get organised and do them all first most of them don't last long enough. And if you're in the front line, anything that makes you do less damage - and give back less damage when you are hit - is a waste.

For guards consider steam guard as one that procs a lot, and radiance / earth are nice, perhaps on sovereign runes for DT - and you can get corrosive salt and magma surge on the tempest too. Look for epic bramble-casters for the thornguard and the permanent 10DR for arrows etc.

The more I play barbs - and I only have 2 capped - one crit rage dual pick wielder and one Frenzied Berserker - the more I realise that your AC is your hit points, and your DPS. With a good barb the mob is dead on normal before it has time to land a hit on you, and on elite it might get a hit in but die pretty soon after.

If you decide to get some kit and try it anyway then I wish you good luck, and would be very happy to eat my words. But I very strongly feel that an AC barb would not work - you lose too much. As people have said before, if you want AC make a fighter, or a Pally. If you wants DR and DPS make a barb.

[Quikster]

On normal or hard, you can get the AC high enough to matter, even without the boost... And my specific example was a good one... In VoD, not much is going on most the raid. It's only near the end when the second wave of orthans come in (along with devils) that things get a little hectic... Improved Uncanny Dodge is an excellent boost during that time.

Don't generalize everything. It's like people who say that Enlarge is a waste of a feat, because most of the time, it is. But there are places where it is very useful.

Boosts are situationally useful... There ARE moments where things are just a little bit more dangerous, and a 20 or 30 second boost can make a difference. I usually use a vorpal in Hound, because I can get my AC high enough to barely get hit, and I kill about as fast as when I DPS the renderers. There have been times when multiple renderers got into the middle, things got a little crazy and I intimidated them off of the clerics or casters, and used a boost to stabilize the situation... By the time the boost wore off, the situation was under control. Sometimes 30 seconds is all you need.

By no means am I saying dont ever use boosts. But you bring up two examples of raids that are both completed in less than 10 minutes for some groups, less than 15 by many groups, and less than 20 by almost all groups.

You are correct, in vod 70% of the time is spent doing nothing, or attacking the back of a mob. You say its a good example and I say its a bad one, for the same reasons.

I say, using boosts to calculate ac numbers is misleading. If you want to show the boosted potential, cool. It shows just that, a boosted potential. But to say, "I have 77 ac" when that 77 is not sustainable, is misleading. You dont have 77 ac, you have a boosted ac of 77. Once the first few encounters that you need that ac have passed, you no longer have 77 ac.

[Quikster]

Ah yes, but what were your "total" stats?

Aww heck i have no idea. what the heck does that mean anyway lmao +1

[Thrudh]

I say, using boosts to calculate ac numbers is misleading. If you want to show the boosted potential, cool. It shows just that, a boosted potential. But to say, "I have 77 ac" when that 77 is not sustainable, is misleading. You dont have 77 ac, you have a boosted ac of 77. Once the first few encounters that you need that ac have passed, you no longer have 77 ac.

I'll agree with that.

[ddobard1]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

[khaldan]

Expect to solo quite a bit, so 52 AC is going to be normal on your build.

A level 5 wizard has better EAC(effective AC) against anything with a +42 to hit.

[Visty]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

you know that the barb with shield has only 5 ac more then with a shieldclicky?
and yet he has better dps then you, better ac and prolly more hp (thrudh stated no exact number on that)

try again

[Thrudh]

I shown here with numbers a barbarian two handed build with no shield (!), that can attain 52 AC unbuffed, 65 AC buffed (Without Halfling!), and 76 AC boosted. It has more HP than Exploiter, and when needed or rages or flees away, depends on the assessment. I don't care if i can't join parties because he isn't maxed, i play it because i like Barbarian and i like AC too. They say Dexterity isn't the way! But i enjoy high relex saves to be able to solo, and go through those traps! That's all.
I see many opinions but the only link made available was to a Barbarian with shield!

You can't make a barbarian who has a good AC AND can do good DPS at the same time...

You can make one that does great DPS OR has a good AC, but NOT at the same time

Your barbarian has way too many stat points in Dex, and you can't have that AC when you're raged!

So your AC is decent, but your DPS is ****... If you rage, your AC will drop a ton...

A barbarian can switch to intimitank with a decent AC mode, or he can be in raged, maxed DPS mode... But you can't do both at the same time.