Trap making a complete overhaul, suggestions to "fix" the system.

[InvadeNormandy]

Traps, a wonderful addition to being a rogue. One would think something remarkable for a mechanic rogue who as it stands now, is fun. but, questionably helpful at times.
(I have a mech rogue too =p so don't jump down my throat entirely! )

Though, almost anyone can agree, for how effective traps and grenades are compared to their costs, they are clearly one of the most overbudget items in the game. Even compared to some item crafting and enchantments!

So I have a few suggestions to "Fix" trap and grenade making to make them useful for rogues (And people who splashed just enough to get it. )

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1: cut the ingredient cost severely, as it stands now. Even if you finally make a trap.
You will be very very stingy with it's use and never utilize it as it took so much to make it.
Instead of 10 parts and several materials, it should take 3 parts and one other material, tops.
Which I think is fair given how impossibly stingy the game is with giving them to you in the first place.
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2: No cross class materials Period. Completely can the soulgem requirements please.
It's a tad asinine to require 20K plat worth of materials just to replicate a glitterdust or
(insert any other spell name) spell one time. When I could just buy a scroll and
UMD it for impossibly cheap. It's clunky, akward and further renders trap making expensive and less useful.

Not to mention, what rogue worth his salt has to beg for parts for his own master craft :P
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3: Totally redesign the ingredient requirements. To make a different trap should take
3 of a particular trap part, and only ONE other material. You could even make different levels
of parts and materials to affect how powerful the end trap will be without completely handing them out.
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4: let rogue level affect trap effectiveness and damage bonus, keep the existing DC bonus from Disable Device.
This way, the more talented
you are as a rogue should mean you yield better traps than someone who's only 4 levels
of rogue. I believe this is fair and let's traps be effective and maybe even sought after as
a pure or high level rogue!
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Anyone else have any suggestions or at the very least agree that the current trap making system is in dire need of a tune up?

[Angelus_dead]

Yes, they should reduce the ingredient cost by a big factor. However, that would lead to it becoming too easy to use lots of traps in quests, so instead the number of traps you can place should be restricted in another way (such as 5 per shrine, or whatever)

Having the number of traps a Rogue can place together be limited by the size of the stack in his inventory is just a bad game design.

[InvadeNormandy]

Yes, they should reduce the ingredient cost by a big factor. However, that would lead to it becoming too easy to use lots of traps in quests, so instead the number of traps you can place should be restricted in another way (such as 5 per shrine, or whatever)

Having the number of traps a Rogue can place together be limited by the size of the stack in his inventory is just a bad game design.

Good point and good solution!

Maybe some sort of (x amount) per rest cooldown ability that requires the trap as a reagent might be a good balance. Or some other way of handling it maybe.

That way, you get to use your traps often enough to make them feel useful and part of your toolset, but you can't go buck wild and place 20 in a hall.

The amount you're able to place could go up with enhancements or rogue levels as well. Or just have it be a flat agreeable amount like 3-5.

[BrinLondo]

I don't bother with the trap system at all. It was a nice attempt, but very misguided. To me, the system is:

1) A waste of inventory/bag space.
2) Yet...another grind
3) More less relatively ineffective after all the gathering.

I consider myself a fairly simple guy and I'd be happy with the following:

1) I don't need a "grenade" to do flame damage or acid damage. An ol' fashion ninja-like pepper grenade would be great!! Get the monsters sneezing...if they can sneeze and cause them to hold up. Fog cloud grenades, grease grenades--all acceptable.

2) I'll be happy just erecting a simple trip line. Give me two points and some rope I can string across to kite baddies back over and trip.

3) How about letting us turn back on existing traps? Not sure how that would be entirely beneficial, but an idea.

4) How about an ol' fashion ACME Co. bear trap I can set and buy at any vendor?

There's enough I have to grind for already. Enough formulas I need to know...look up...save up for. I won't bother with the current trap system--ever. I actually get a bit disgusted when trap parts wind up in my inventory. And given the pace of this game, I don't see any group slowing up for any rogue to set a trap. So why bother?

In fact...I've only seen ONE rogue actually make a trap, and it was within the last week, while waiting for a party to gather for a GH quest just outside the gates. That's it. One.

[Bodic]

personally I would like to see something like a Sonic Blast(stun effect), Glitterdust(Blind), CK, or SF grenade.
even a FlashBang Sonic Blast/Glitter Dust.

[Angelus_dead]

The amount you're able to place could go up with enhancements or rogue levels as well. Or just have it be a flat agreeable amount like 3-5.

Yes, an obvious way is 5 base + 3 per tier of Mechanic + 3 per optional AP investment. Note that with just 5 uses, the traps should be pretty powerful individually, such as one trap being able to trigger several times as multiple monsters cross it.

And, if the trap isn't triggered for some reason it shouldn't count against the usage limits: you get the charge back if the trap deployment is interrupted, or if you click it to pick it back up before a monster touches it.

[lugoman]

I have yet to run with a rogue who used a trap.

[Karavek]

Silly to even suggest a limit of uses per rest for something one crafts. WHen one factors on how much a rogues main DPS ability sneak attack is reduced in this game by the sheer amount of undead, constructs, and ofcourse the insult that is PVP where after lvl 9 everyone is immune(yes I know PVP is a joke in general but that is a major issue for rogues and a valid point no matter)

Traps should be cheap to make at low lvls, as a rogue trapping and pulling should bea valid way especially for a solo, but for a much more tactical play style in general. The better ones should be mosre costly to reflect thier greater power but if I see a need for 10 traps to line a long corridor and bring a large mob of minotaurs down that is my choice to invest the tools that way.

I myself have a thread suggesting ways to make traps and grenades more useful but nerfing how often they could be used if they where made easier wouldnt make those of us currently making them and willing to use them for extravagent halls of death very happy.

[Angelus_dead]

Silly to even suggest a limit of uses per rest for something one crafts.

It may appear illogical from some natural perspectives, but it's neither silly nor unverisimilar.

Realistically a person couldn't walk around carrying more than a few powerful high-explosive devices at once, but it would be inconvenient if the game limited your carrying capacity and made you run back to the bank after every dungeon. Therefore limiting the daily uses provides a limit to keep the trap deployment sensible and balanced, without making it irritating.

[YakoSpiritFist]

When I first read about the mechanic enhancement and trap making feat the idea of making a build based around it seemed like fun. Set up traps and use your almost trusty repeater to draw in the mobs and watch the fireworks. As the trap making system is now though it's just not worth the hassle. It's a shame really.

It may appear illogical from some natural perspectives, but it's neither silly nor unverisimilar.

Realistically a person couldn't walk around carrying more than a few powerful high-explosive devices at once, but it would be inconvenient if the game limited your carrying capacity and made you run back to the bank after every dungeon. Therefore limiting the daily uses provides a limit to keep the trap deployment sensible and balanced, without making it irritating.

Lets just leave realism out of this ok? If a character can carry around 8 sets of armor, plus weapons, potions, scrolls, well you get the idea around, then I'm sure they can carry a decent number of traps as well. Anyway I guess a limit wouldn't be to bad if it wasn't something stupid like 2 uses per rest. 5 sounds ok. Maybe make another enhancement that allows you to lay an extra trap in between shrines. Or maybe have it so the mechanic enhancement also allows you to lay more traps than anybody else can.

[Angelus_dead]

Lets just leave realism out of this ok?

If you want to ignore verisimilitude, that's fine: there's also the game-balance reason to keep it limited. Per-rest limits on powerful damage-dealing abilities is central to DDO's design, as seen in sorcerer spellpoints and similar things.

If the devs restrict the number of traps you can use, then they're able to make each trap pretty powerful. But if players could set as many traps as they feel like carrying (and if traps require a low cost in ingredients), then each trap would have to be a weak effect, or else the whole thing would be overpowered.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Yes to your suggestions please. Whoever designed the original trap system should be forced to play a mechanic rogue who only uses traps until level 20.

[Memnir]

• Get rid of the soul gems - stupid concept.
• Reduce the materials needed to craft traps - prohibitively expensive.
• Limit the traps used to five per rest - and up the damage a bit in return.

[Angelus_dead]

I guess I'll repeat my old suggestion for improving grenades too:
1. Reduce the cost to build them (fewer trap parts)
2. Change them from an equipped item to something that throws as soon as you click the icon.
3. Give it a large cooldown (over 10-15 seconds)
4. Increase the damage/DC.

The idea there is that a grenade attack becomes something you use to start a fight, hit a monster that ran away, or mix in with your regular attacks for an extra burst of damage. The current usage is to equip grenades and then spam them until you've used up your ammo, which feels weird and is inappropriate for the setting. Once again, reducing the rate at which a player can use the item allows the developers to make each single use more powerful.


Also here's three more old suggestions:
1. The Free Agent Vendor also sells a Trap Bag, which can hold both trap parts and completed traps.
2. Mechanical parts + cheap vials = noisemaker grenade
3. Grenade + masterwork bolt = explosive bolt. This isn't actually loaded as ammo, and instead functions as a clicky: when activated it fires a single bolt at your current target, produces the grenade explosion there. That effect can only be used when a crossbow is equipped, and has a fairly long cooldown (over 10-15 sec)