(SIGH) Epic grind an epic waste of time

[Hendrik]

Since you asked...

I came back in February. I probably average 4-6 hours a day 5 days a week (not including spinning in a tavern while working). I don't solely run or focus on epics, but do jump into mostly guild runs when I can. Currenly have 27 shards and 29 seals (unique) in my bag. Several are ready to craft but Im holding off for a bit as I can't decide what to consume my tokens on or which toons to put them on (Im paranoid to burn them up and then change my mind).

So for me, Im enjoying it. As I said, I may be in the minority. But it's just my opinion.

I'm enjoying it too Death.

Fix a couple drop bugs and I'm happy.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

I like Epic just fine the way it is. Epic should be for the best of the best.

Having more time to play the game does not mean you are a better player... It just means that you are a player with more time to play.

[Gunga]

Not sure what your beef is...other than someone doesn't agree with you and has a different point of view.

Whatever, dude. I have no beef at all...don't get your feather's ruffled, man.

If you have 5 completed epic items that you have been looking for or that are of value to you, than you absolutely have a valid point. That's exactly why I asked you those questions instead of just assuming that you didn't know what you were talking about.

I have 3 Epic items that are valuable to me. I can make 4 more items that are of so little value that I won't take the time to create them just to waste the bank slots.

I have so little faith in actually completing the other items that I would really like to create (Maralith, Chaos Blades, Bloodstone, SS Ring) that I would RATHER NOT PLAY than waste another 2 hours with zero gain.

But if it makes you feel better, I am a cheap date...throw me a few needed scrolls and I'll post whatever opinion you want me too!

But, if you're so pleased with the way EPIC things are going, then why would you need scrolls THAT YOU JUST GRINDED 70 HOURS FOR.

Just an opinion, and I'm not trying to get you all worked up. Less coffee.

Have a good weekend.

[Crazyfruit]

I'm talking about the red-names, and yes it may only take 90 seconds but it feels like 5 minutes

Trash-mobs die fast when held/stunned but it's JUST AS STUPID. Let's be real, 4 melees beating on stunned mobs Rodney King style is just plain old dumb. I would like to see more in the end-game besides blanket immunities, thousands of HP, and all that other foolishness that is what we see in epic quests.

Ah I've seen too many groups that handle the regular monsters that way too hehe.

Agreed tho. I wish there was a happy medium between how they are now and the pre-savenerf epics... those could be quite a challenge very few people liked (me!), but most just tried to find any way to cheese through them. I'm sure my dog could run many of them half asleep now.

The new Claw of Vulkoor quest was an interesting change from most

I hate the fact that you have to do most Epics with a group

Almost all of them have been soloed many times without cheesy/AIexploit tactics. If you'd like some advice for specific epics feel free to PM me.

[Wizard_Zero]

Having more time to play the game does not mean you are a better player... It just means that you are a player with more time to play.

I agree, but there is only so much "skill" in this game. It's not like a shooting game or a fighting game. Within 6 months, you should have the same play skill as a veteran who played since the beginning, it's not a hard by any means.

Gear is pretty much the defining factor in this game. Someone who has dual tier 3 Greensteel "should" be a much better asset to the party than someone with vendor trash weapons. Usually the DDO addicts are amazing players with great gear. I have yet to meet a person who had great gear and was a horrible player. "Starburst time," there is only one person I know of who has finished Greensteels and plays horrible, everyone on Sarlona knows who I'm talking about. That person is in a league of their own though.

[Deathseeker]

I have 3 Epic items that are valuable to me. I can make 4 more items that are of so little value that I won't take the time to create them just to waste the bank slots.

I have so little faith in actually completing the other items that I would really like to create (Maralith, Chaos Blades, Bloodstone, SS Ring) that I would RATHER NOT PLAY than waste another 2 hours with zero gain.

Maybe not you specifically (or maybe) but I think the above is where the real frustration lies with epic loot. Players look at the loot list, and target specific items that really will help their builds (ie the above list). They then try to acquire those items specifically and hit the wall because the loot tables have so many items that targeting a few specifically gets very painful.

And in no way am I suggesting that is a wrong or incorrect approach (each person finds fun in the game their own way). But if that's the approach one has, then yep, I can see the frustration with the grind.

I think 20th run rewards would be a great way to address this. After 20 runs of a single raid/quest, you should get something you want. As it's random, some people can run 100 times and the luck of the dice will not allow them to get what they need. I can definitely see that sucking. So some "light at the end of the tunnel" would be a very good addition.

I think the concepts of a more complete choice of shards/seals after 20 runs, or maybe the other concept being thrown around of turning in a number (let's say 20 for the sake of discussion) of tokens to get a shopping list of items, are both good suggestions to help alleviate some of the frustration.

For me personally, I don't target a specific item, mostly because I know what will happen if I do (mainly it will never fall for me). I just run, see what drops, and start thinking about which one of my toons it will fit on.

And to be honest, only 2 of the items I can craft are actually useful at this point (belt buckle and fighting leathers). The other 3 (warding shield, delving suit, and cacophonic verge) I haven't decided a great use for (is there a use for the cacophonic verge?). None of them are fantastic compared to the above.

[Aspenor]

I haven't played much at all in months, and the epic grind is to blame for this completely.

You can take that to the bank.

[Gunga]

I haven't played much at all in months, and the epic grind is to blame for this completely.

You can take that to the bank.

You would play more if your sorc was Warforged.

Just sayin'.

[Aspenor]

You would play more if your sorc was Warforged.

Just sayin'.

Nope.

You can take that to the bank, too.

[maddmatt70]

I agree the epic grind is too much either that or all the items should be better. Either this should be an immense grind for significant power increases or less of a grind for the current item increases in game. The only items that I would consider to be truely worth the grind are the Epic SOS and Epic SS which both coincidental got nerfed. I feel some other items are close to worth it such as the marilith and epic red dragon armor but even those I feel are not truely worth the grind. (Note: I do not have sufficient analysis of the red ferns gear/grind to determine if these are better bang for the buck so to speak).

[Matuse]

I have ~130 epic dungeon tokens, and 25 epic raid tokens. I have a large ingredient bag in the bank which is just a couple of slots short of being completely stuffed with nothing but seals, scrolls, and a tiny number of shards.

I have so far acquired the components to create ZERO epic items. None. Everything I have is a mis-matched hodge-podge of randomness. Also, shards are obscenely and stupidly too rare. I have - NEVER - seen a shard drop in epic wizking or epic OOB for anyone in any of my groups.

[Thrudh]

The current state of epic is all about the loot that's only marginally better than raid-loot and greensteel. The game keeps getting easier anyway, what's the point?

That's why I don't bother with epics... My guys rock without epic gear.

Of course, I'm still having fun with TRs... but soon I'll be done with that... I'm not sure what I'll do then... Might be another year, so I guess I'll see where the end-game is then...

I'm not saying don't complain about epics... I think threads like these are good for the developers to read... I'm saying... if you really hate running epics, stop (and post here why)... The devs will also notice if less and less people run epic...

[Irinis]

Brotherman.

Are you seriously going to post here and now that you think the EPIC grind is well balanced when you don't have a single EPIC item crafted in 700+ hours of gaming?

Talk about a cheap date.

+1 rep

I'll underestimate my gametime as about 36 hours a week though it's probably more like 46 hours. Trying to pug epics is a nightmare. I've never completed OOB or WK successfully, and never even attempted CoF or VON4. All the groups that do epics aside from VON1 successfully seem to be guild runs. The only attempt I did at ADQ the cleric used something insane like 75 mana pots and I used 26 on my wiz... which was all I had on her. I don't even remember if we completed or if we gave up when everyone ran out of pots. All I know is I'm not going in there again, I can't burn pots like that.

I'm close on 2 epic items in all that gametime, but most days I can't even find a good group to run epics with aside from VON1 - where even a 200hp sorc can do ok as long as they have a good FW, heals, and a stellar melee. Still surprised we finished that one, I was healing it. O.O

2 red dragonscales.
1 seal missing for one item.
1 base item missing for the only thing I have every epic bit for. Hehe.
A ton of multiple seals for items I'll never make, missing seals for items I'd actually want to make.
Scroll of the collapsed shortbow... you call that an epic item??

And you can't even sell the stuff for anything worthwhile, epic quests drop lowlevel vendor trash that really makes you feel like all the failures were completely useless wastes of time.

If I had a good group to do them MAYBE it'd be an enjoyable challenge instead of a horrible expensive drain on time and resources, but I don't. Almost at the verge of throwing away everything I collected except the tokens and never doing anything but VON1 again - only for TR hearts.

[Ninjalooter]

They need to make shard/seals something you can purchase with epic tokens. Atleast then you know youre working towards something.

Not being rewarded for your time unless you get a random rare drop isnt fun.

Ive seen people get lucky and get shards and seals on their first run. It dont feel real cool when you have ran the same quest 30+ times for nothing.

[grodon9999]

I'm not saying don't complain about epics... I think threads like these are good for the developers to read... I'm saying... if you really hate running epics, stop (and post here why)... The devs will also notice if less and less people run epic...

Pretty much agree with you, I can't say I hate epics I just think they're kinda dumb. It's still kinda fun but it's like running in the special Olympics. You play for fun or play to win, but in the end you're still ********.

I would like turbine to re-look at the end-game and make it less stupid, epic is a good "place-holder" until they can come up with more "real" high-level stuff. The raids are excellent though, a hell of a lot of fun.

[Gunga]

Pretty much agree with you, I can't say I hate epics I just think they're kinda dumb. It's still kinda fun but it's like running in the special Olympics. You play for fun or play to win, but in the end you're still ********.

I would like turbine to re-look at the end-game and make it less stupid, epic is a good "place-holder" until they can come up with more "real" high-level stuff. The raids are excellent though, a hell of a lot of fun.

Are you telling a game to be less stupid?

[grodon9999]

Are you telling a game to be less stupid?

A little less "special" would be fine.

[Torilin]

I have run many many epic quest and raids and have many epic items. My biggest problem with epic gear is the fact its not "EPIC". C'mon devs pull out the old forgotten realms artifact book and get some ideas.